Bates Family Part 13: Like Lipstick on a Pig

[HereticHick]

Check out the chatter on this Instagram post from Lawson--the fangirls are already ironing their best frumpers for Trace and Carlin's graduation party.

[and for the person who guessed that the Bates were in Florida for Allie Jane's birthday party--you were correct!]

 

 

[actuallyjessica]

It's pretty well known that the women in the George (both HW an W) Bush family are pro-choice, but keep quiet about their belief.

I'm not Australian, so American politics aren't a huge thing here so I was not aware of this - interesting!

Our last Prime Minister, Tony Abbott was hugely against gay marriage even though his sister is a lesbian and has been with her partner for many years, she came out and publicly supported her brothers (homophobic) choice. However, I do believe after he was no longer PM, the same sister told the media that she obviously didn't agree with him, she just supported him because he is her brother.

[Palimpsest]

3 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

It's pretty well known that the women in the George (both HW an W) Bush family are pro-choice, but keep quiet about their belief.

And it is really quite revoltingly hypocritical, especially when they all were stumping on the campaign trail for HW and W. Yes?  

Ron Reagan, Jr. definitely disagreed with his father's politics.  He kept quiet and did not actively go on the campaign trail, unlike Maureen and Michael.  He also did not announce his political disagreements until well after his father left office.  In contrast, Patti was rather out control on her dislike of her parents' politics at various times.

Ron Reagan's seems the most dignified approach.  Silence does not = agreement.  Silence and resisting active campaigning also does not promote political aspirations with which you do not agree.

 

 

[what the heck]

18 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Check out the chatter on this Instagram post from Lawson--the fangirls are already ironing their best frumpers for Trace and Carlin's graduation party.

[and for the person who guessed that the Bates were in Florida for Allie Jane's birthday party--you were correct!]

 

 

What are they thinking? Some of the Bates fans aren't exactly stable!

[VelociRapture]

15 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

It's pretty well known that the women in the George (both HW an W) Bush family are pro-choice, but keep quiet about their belief.

Laura Bush stated she didn't want Roe v. Wade overturned right before her husband's first inauguration. She pretty much just said "No" when asked, but she still went on the record with it. And while Barbara kept her views a bit quiet while Bush Sr. was President, she didn't keep quiet about it during his second Presidential run - she publicly stated abortion (either pro choice or anti choice) didn't belong in the Republican platform because it's a personal matter.

Bush Sr. also was for family planning prior to the Republican Party moving further to the right in the 80's - so it isn't out of the realm of possibility to think that he did it merely as a career move and he may have privately felt differently.

So while neither of them ran around shouting their views constantly, they did go on the record with their beliefs. 

(And fun note - Prescott Bush, George Sr.'s father, was an early supporter of Planned Parenthood. The more you know!)

[Kittikatz]

Interesting about the Bush wives not being as antichoice as their husbands appeared to  be. 

I also heard that John McCain's wife and eldest daughter disagreed with him on a number of women's issues and gay marriage, but I didn't follow that election closely enough to know if either went on record or if the disagreements were substantiated in any way.  This link is to a rather dithering interview about it: 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cindy-mccain-on-abortion-creationism/

On the personal front, I know of two children of politicians who privately opposed a lot of what their parent's platforms contained. The most extreme of these involved a loudly anti LGTBQ politician whose son was gay. Both adult children participated in the campaigns as required and neither went on social media or on record against their parents positions. My gay friend went so far as to choose to remain in the closet to all but his closest friends and family to avoid conflict with his father's campaign. Weirdly, his father knew the son was gay and was relatively accepting of that as long as it was kept quiet enough not to become an election issue, which I find disturbing on all kinds of levels...

[sawasdee]

5 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Check out the chatter on this Instagram post from Lawson--the fangirls are already ironing their best frumpers for Trace and Carlin's graduation party.

[and for the person who guessed that the Bates were in Florida for Allie Jane's birthday party--you were correct!]

 

 

Looks like the 1950s buffet from hell.......

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

5 hours ago, what the heck said:

What are they thinking? Some of the Bates fans aren't exactly stable!

Seriously. That becky m lady posts on all of their instagram accountsand she's kinda nuts. She made a comment about how she has to remind herself not to get impatient or upset when they don't respond to her comments in a timely manner. I'd be genuinely concerned about her if I was them  

[nastyhobbitses]

5 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Laura Bush stated she didn't want Roe v. Wade overturned right before her husband's first inauguration. She pretty much just said "No" when asked, but she still went on the record with it. And while Barbara kept her views a bit quiet while Bush Sr. was President, she didn't keep quiet about it during his second Presidential run - she publicly stated abortion (either pro choice or anti choice) didn't belong in the Republican platform because it's a personal matter.

Bush Sr. also was for family planning prior to the Republican Party moving further to the right in the 80's - so it isn't out of the realm of possibility to think that he did it merely as a career move and he may have privately felt differently.

So while neither of them ran around shouting their views constantly, they did go on the record with their beliefs. 

(And fun note - Prescott Bush, George Sr.'s father, was an early supporter of Planned Parenthood. The more you know!)

In general, I think pre-Dubya/pre-Religious Right, the Bush clan was much more Greenwich, Connecticut-style Republican: more left-wing than most Republicans on social issues, not because they particularly care about the downtrodden in society or making society more equal for all, but because they just don't give a shit if women have abortions or if gay people get married, since it's not really their business.

It's weird -- I vehemently disagree with the fiscal/economic policies of Bush Sr. and the like, and those policies are the main focus of the Greenwich, Connecticut-style Republican, but I also despise the Religious Right Republicans. I'd say that I miss the Greenwich-style Republicans, but they implemented some pretty fucked up economic policies of their own.

[colors_outside15]

i just had a thought i can't shake off.

from what very, very little scripted shit we see about zach and whitney, they seem to love bradley very much and to have a healthy relationship with him. however, whatever whitney's reasons are for reconciling with her birth parents: they HAD to do something horrifically heinous to lose her. i don't care how brainwashed she is, she remembers. another man walked her down the aisle to zach. she created bradley with zach. if she loves her son, why would she have him pack a suitcase to spend the night at the house with parents who lost custody of her? i know i know because ... jesus. and forgiveness. 

but i don't care. bradley is a baby. protect him. it's your only god damn job, and if you're going to suck at it, stop having kids and get an actual job. 

/yes i'm angry tonight. but seriously. you don't do that to your baby. YOU DON'T!!! how do i know? i spent my life keeping mine away as much as humanely possible. even when that meant throwing myself over them to take the beating. even when that meant running away carrying a couple of them because the house was so dangerous, and figuring i wouldn't be missed, and they wouldn't notice the lack of little ones. it was worth it every single time if it saved them even an ounce of pain. and technically, i'm not a mom. and that actually hurts because it would be easier to say that i'm so sad because i miss my children. so yeah, hug your belly on instagram, and then hand over your children to zach's abusive parents and your abusive parents, so you can sweet fellowship and make more babies. jesus isn't real. and if he is, i hate him, and i'll him that to his face. sorry, to everyone who is religious, but if a guy in the sky has the power to stop evil, he should. so, frankly, i'd rather there be no one in the sky, keep taking care of myself as always, and shut everyone out until my buddies find me. and they'll never get out and find me. if there's real hell, i'd take it over this.

ps - not suicidal. just. damnit.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

27 minutes ago, sawasdee said:

Looks like the 1950s buffet from hell.......

Overprocessed oversweetened "food" and overprocessed oversalted "food" and...nothing else it seems. 

[elliha]

Regarding Whitney, some people do what they can to have a relationship even with crappy parents. It is sad that she feels she can't have a relationship with both sets but I don't judge her, for some people it is extremely important to maintain that bond. As we don't know the details the situation might have been multifacetted and some of the problems her parents had might indeed be out of the picture now which makes this possible.

[ophelia]

Does anybody know how old Whitney was when she stopped living with her birth parents? If this was covered in the recent episode, I apologize. I haven't watched the 3rd season at all.

[Melissa1977]

2 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Overprocessed oversweetened "food" and overprocessed oversalted "food" and...nothing else it seems. 

Well, I cook all my food, my family eats healthy and unprocesed every single day, but at children birthdays  I serve junk food like that.

[sawasdee]

2 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Well, I cook all my food, my family eats healthy and unprocesed every single day, but at children birthdays  I serve junk food like that.

Isn't this a 1st birthday? And I think most of the guests will be adults. And for any kids there, the sugar overload will have them swinging from the chandeliers!

I know what you mean (I think), that a child's birthday party is a time for usually forbidden treats. But unalloyed processed just isn't that appealing. And I still think it looks like something from a  homemaker's magazine from about 60 years ago

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

In general, I think pre-Dubya/pre-Religious Right, the Bush clan was much more Greenwich, Connecticut-style Republican: more left-wing than most Republicans on social issues, not because they particularly care about the downtrodden in society or making society more equal for all, but because they just don't give a shit if women have abortions or if gay people get married, since it's not really their business.

It's weird -- I vehemently disagree with the fiscal/economic policies of Bush Sr. and the like, and those policies are the main focus of the Greenwich, Connecticut-style Republican, but I also despise the Religious Right Republicans. I'd say that I miss the Greenwich-style Republicans, but they implemented some pretty fucked up economic policies of their own.

Oh I know. I live in Connecticut. Fun times. 

40 minutes ago, ophelia said:

Does anybody know how old Whitney was when she stopped living with her birth parents? If this was covered in the recent episode, I apologize. I haven't watched the 3rd season at all.

Not sure what her exact age was, but she was a teenager. I don't know if they really go into details about her family background on the show either. From what I recall nothing has ever really been said about why she was taken from her birth family or why she was adopted - also not known if the adoption was legal or official or anything. Because so little is known I tend to reserve judgement on the issue.

[Ali]

2 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Well, I cook all my food, my family eats healthy and unprocesed every single day, but at children birthdays  I serve junk food like that.

I could see serving some of it. The chips, crackers, and cheese are fine in my opinion. I would want a fruit platter, a vegetable platter, a salad, and some hummus. I could see making an unhealthy dip like spinach artichoke or small sandwiches. What bothers me the most is there are lots of sugary items on the table. I don't quite understand the need for so much sugar since they will probably have cake and ice cream.

4 hours ago, colors_outside15 said:

i just had a thought i can't shake off.

from what very, very little scripted shit we see about zach and whitney, they seem to love bradley very much and to have a healthy relationship with him. however, whatever whitney's reasons are for reconciling with her birth parents: they HAD to do something horrifically heinous to lose her. i don't care how brainwashed she is, she remembers. another man walked her down the aisle to zach. she created bradley with zach. if she loves her son, why would she have him pack a suitcase to spend the night at the house with parents who lost custody of her? i know i know because ... jesus. and forgiveness. 

but i don't care. bradley is a baby. protect him. it's your only god damn job, and if you're going to suck at it, stop having kids and get an actual job.

I only watched episodes from season 1, so I can't comment on the details about what you are referring to here. I hope it was not something too horrible that caused the birth parents to lose custody of Whitney, and that the Whitney's parents are safe for Bradley to be around. I know people can change and I hope that is the case in this situation for the children's sake. 

I agree that parents should protect their children. My husband and I have agreed that my children will never have unsupervised contact with a certain family member due to a history of abuse. I can't change the past or prevent my children from being hurt, but I can protect them people I know to be unsafe.

I hope you are able to work through your past. You are in my thoughts.

[SilverBeach]

18 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

@THERetroGamerNY I very sorry that you feel I am attempting to silence dialogue. My intent was quite the opposite. I am trying express that not every cult surviror or escapee processes their experiences or acts in the same way.

Also, we don't know much about many of the adult Bates children's day to day lives. Projecting our individual experiences onto what we see them doing is, IMO, pointless and results in fan or hate fiction and undue attention being paid to them. 

What is hate fiction? Serious question. Frankly, I don't care about the adult Bates children day to day lives. When it comes to supporting Taliban Dan, that's another matter altogether. Whether done just to keep the peace in the family or because they really agree with the hateful rhetoric, they will never appear to be moving away from ATI/IBLP if they keep supporting Taliban Dan.

Who knows what's going to happen way down the line? If Alyssa or anybody else disavows ATI/IBLP or at least stops participating, good. Not much precedent there, but the fewer adherents to that crap the better.

I wonder if Alyssa even understands the platform her FIL is running on.

[Palimpsest]

@SilverBeach  I'd add that if Zach Bates runs for county mayor - or any public office - again on a similar platform to his last, I'll go after him with both barrels too.  That race was too close.  

[19 cats and counting]

AS far as Taliban Dan. 

The only pics we've seen of Alyssa with his campaign are at a parade and at the election night watch party.  I haven't seen any pics of her actually doing campaign work (although based what I've seen with the Duggars, the campaign work they do is ineffective.  If they think waving signs wins, let them.).  Her vote is private so we don't know if she voted for him or not.

Parades-- Anyone can march in a parade.  At one I was in, we had a 7yo insist on marching with the M County Democrats.  At 7, I didn't expect her to have any political opinions, but she loved marching.  

Election night party--- this is an event where family members attend out of love not politics.  The event has the potential to be a funeral.  If the candidate loses, he/she wants loved ones there for condolences.   They're usually held in a public place like a hotel or restaurant so anyone can pop in.

As for campaign photos, etc.  I haven't seen Taliban Dan's campaign literature.  But if there's a family photo (which many times there is), it would never occur to me to put the daughter in law in it.  Yes to John, maybe to Allie (only if with her Webster cousins) no to Alyssa and the other in laws.

With all that said, I hope Taliban Dan's watch party this year is a funeral.

[SilverBeach]

5 hours ago, colors_outside15 said:

 

/yes i'm angry tonight. but seriously. you don't do that to your baby. YOU DON'T!!!  jesus isn't real. and if he is, i hate him, and i'll him that to his face. sorry, to everyone who is religious, but if a guy in the sky has the power to stop evil, he should. so, frankly, i'd rather there be no one in the sky, keep taking care of myself as always, and shut everyone out until my buddies find me. and they'll never get out and find me. if there's real hell, i'd take it over this.

ps - not suicidal. just. damnit.

As a mother, I have always been fierce in my protective instinct, my kid is grown and I still feel that way. I truly don't get parents who would knowingly put their child in a potentially harmful situation, as I took no chances. Being a sperm donor or uterine carrier does not a father/mother make.

I am a believer, and as far as I am concerned there is no need to apologize for how you feel. I personally aim to not make posts disparaging the beliefs, or lack thereof, of other FJ members. However, you are angry and obviously in pain, and I hope that expressing yourself freely helps you feel a bit better, I really do. 

No question that life really sucks at times and believers are not exemp from suffering, trust me. 

I truly send good thoughts your way.

7 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

 

With all that said, I hope Taliban Dan's watch party this year is a funeral.

On this we can agree.

But I don't need to know how Alyssa or anybody else votes in the booth to be critical of their apparent support of a hate monger.

[nausicaa]

14 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

AS far as Taliban Dan. 

The only pics we've seen of Alyssa with his campaign are at a parade and at the election night watch party.  I haven't seen any pics of her actually doing campaign work (although based what I've seen with the Duggars, the campaign work they do is ineffective.  If they think waving signs wins, let them.).  Her vote is private so we don't know if she voted for him or not.

Parades-- Anyone can march in a parade.  At one I was in, we had a 7yo insist on marching with the M County Democrats.  At 7, I didn't expect her to have any political opinions, but she loved marching.  

Election night party--- this is an event where family members attend out of love not politics.  The event has the potential to be a funeral.  If the candidate loses, he/she wants loved ones there for condolences.   They're usually held in a public place like a hotel or restaurant so anyone can pop in.

As for campaign photos, etc.  I haven't seen Taliban Dan's campaign literature.  But if there's a family photo (which many times there is), it would never occur to me to put the daughter in law in it.  Yes to John, maybe to Allie (only if with her Webster cousins) no to Alyssa and the other in laws.

With all that said, I hope Taliban Dan's watch party this year is a funeral.

She did post on her Instagram asking her fans to vote for him in some online poll suggesting he should be the new Speaker of the House.

Honestly, it seemed she thought that the online poll was some official vote that would actually make him Speaker of the House. I've come to think she's probably not super bright when it comes to these things, and since she's a  "Webster4Ever," she's totes down with Taliban Dan. 

Granted, I don't have any hard and fast facts either, so YMMV.

[actuallyjessica]

It's no secret I like Alyssa but hear me out - what if by doing that she could look like she supports him and the family would shut up but she's not actually supporting him? Just a thought. I am likely way off but it's fun to speculate.

[19 cats and counting]

Honestly even though Alyssa married into the political family, her brother is worse when it comes to politics because he's starting to open his mouth.  Alyssa didn't openly say that someone should be kept alive even when brain dead (Terri Schaivo).  Alyssa doesn't post conspiracy theories to social media.  Alyssa doesn't dress Allie in pro-life onesies or use her pregnancy as a pro-ife message (Anna Duggar).  I'll give her the benefit of the doubt until she opens her mouth.

As for online polls.  They're useless (as with online petitions).  Did John ask the same thing?  Maybe she did what her headship told her to do?  If she actually believes online polls mean something it's her SOTDRT education at work.  The girl is woefully uneducated, and honestly I don't know how smart she is.

I'm not sure how old John was when Taliban Dan's political career took off, but my bet is that he's just "Dad' instead of Congressman to him.  People of all occupations separate their personal and professional life, and unless I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume the same for Taliban Dan.

[formergothardite]

I would be surprised if Alyssa didn't actually believe all the things Taliban Dan stands for. She is probably smart enough not to broadcast it, but I am not sure why people think she doesn't believe like her FIL. She comes from a very fundie background, married into a very fundie family and is campaigning for her very fundie FIL. All signs points towards her actually sharing those beliefs.