Bates Family Part 13: Like Lipstick on a Pig

[VelociRapture]

So I'm on my phone because the laptop won't open Firefox. This isn't going to be my best work for that reason. That said...

"The Dinosaur Watches BUB: Love is in the Heir"

Or, as I like to call it, "LOOK AT HOW WITTY WE ARE! THE DUGGARS WOULD NEVER THINK UP A WITTY TITLE LIKE THAT! LOVE US!!!!"

Start with a preview of the episode we are about to subject ourselves to. Nice of them to torture us ahead of time.

Same opening credits (that haunt my nightmares) as always.

Opening shots of nature. Jaunty music plays. Nathan and some younger boys arrive home. Reveals he calls Ashley his girlfriend and they drove around places. Riveting shit so far.

Large talk - they're either in trouble or about to do something? Sorry younger boy number 1 - I don't listen when you talk. 

Whit and Zack head to their ten week checkup and first ultrasound. They hope for a girl, but will be happy with a healthy kid. 

Side note - Whit has a shit ton of mascara on. Like, they look like spider legs or something.

We hear little Kaci (Casey? Kasey?) Lynn's heartbeat. 

Nathan goes to get BBQ with his parents for this big talk thing - so no one overhears anything about to be filmed. They sure dine out a ton for people with no money. They had a great time making rounds to all the important friends and families around Thanksgiving. Sounds like this was the road trip mentioned here earlier - those little boys looked scarred by all the handsex. Nathan spoke to her parents and they agreed to a courtship. 

Kelly TH - some bullshit about courtships.

Nathan TH - about the same as his mom. 

Kelly asks about where they would live. Nathan says Ashley would be fine living in the country (big fuckibg surprise, amirite?) Sheloves the city and every time something exciting happens in her circle they incorporate the monuments into the celebration somehow. Nathan wants to plan something special for asking her to court and wants to include the monuments as well.

Nathan plans to tell his siblings to get ideas. One of the parents says they can tell them tonight while they decorate for Christmas. 

YES KELLY WE GET IT - ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP A FUCKING SECRET IN YOUR GODDAMN FAMILY! 

Cut to commercials.

Judson: Christmas is Jesus birthday.

Jeb: Sings happy birthday. Can I adopt them?

Carlin talks their rustic theme for Xmas decorating. Kelly approves of this rusty hunk of metal Gul brings into the house. I kind of hope he gets Tetanus. Sorry (not sorry.)

Nathan makes snarky comments about the metal in a TH.

Little boy 2 (Isaiah?) almost gets crushed by the metal thing. Gil half laughs as he says he dropped the ball (or metal). Douche.

Nathan tells the siblings he wants to court Ashley. Carlin looks like she's about to lose her shit from excitement. He asks if anyone opposes - Lawson runs forward.

"It's like the cliff of love... And then they're like, forget that and jump in." Real Shakespeare that one.

Nathan asks for suggestions. Statue of Liberty is mentioned, as well as the ice rink. Lame joke about "giving up your liberty" is made. Everyone laughs - I die a little more inside. 

Not even half way through and my poor puppy is asleep and I want to slam my head against a brick wall. 

Commercials.

[ElegantMajesticPearls]

This show is hard to get through even just to snark watch. I don't think I can make it to the end. 

Interesting how Lawson seems so adamant against relationships. Especially the relationships hinder careers tidbit. Guess the Jinger/Lawson speculation is a no go

[HereticHick]

As my Grandma would say, you're doing the Lord's Work, Velocirapture!  So, this disproves that Bates Leghumper website that said they have been courting since October, right?  If Nathan's road trip was over Thanksgiving, and he hadn't asked her to court yet...

[VelociRapture]

Witty Title Part 2:

Tori is supervised by Callie while cooking... The full grown adult is supervised by a child... I'll let that sink in for a moment.

Kelly TH - blah blah blah anniversary blah blah.

Tori can't roll the chicken for their parents special dinner. Kelly steps in to help because she's a fucking control freak who can't allow her child to fail on her special night. Apparently Tori not being able to cook is kind of a thing - no clue why she was drafted into preparing the anniversary dinner in that case. 

Little boys 1-3 show up in suits - I'm assuming they've been blanket trained into acting as servers for the night. Carlin orders Warden to light candles in their parents' bedroom. 

Anniversary dinner is in the parents' bedroom for some reason. Only the parents are eating. No idea when the children are being fed. Or if they're going to be fed.

Best part of the dinner for Kelly? Seeing her kids cater to their every whim and desire as usual - or something. She opens her mouth and I just stop caring. 

Commercial.

[Dandruff]

Kelly said courships are like going steady.  As if any of those kids would ever date more than one person at a time.  With the exception of Zach, I doubt any of them will date more than one person in their life.

[19 cats and counting]

So do they use the term boyfriend/girlfriend before they're courting?

[crazysnark]

All 4 married couples said they were boyfriend/girlfriend. This is not a new thing. As soon as Chad and Erin started "courting" they were saying "I love you" and people here were totally freaking out. Nathan calling Ashley his girlfriend is nothing new for this family (with the exception of Zach and Sarah) 

[VelociRapture]

Witty Title Part 3: Death Would Be More Merciful Than Watching This Shit

This preview for that small town loud mouth mayor show is taking FOREVER... And I can't understand half of what they're saying. Just another quality program from our friends at UP y'all!

Still waiting... They are REALLY trying to sell this Mayor show... Someone's chasing bulls around a baseball field filled with small children.... I hope the bull wins...

And hubby is finally home - fucking Tax Season. So I'm out. I'm tired and don't want to get teased mercilessly.  

 

[sunshine]

Apparently, they are holding hands during courtship.

 

 

[iweartanktops]

45 minutes ago, daisyd681 said:

I'm pretty stunned coming in here and seeing the Bates love. I've been keeping up on the GotHard lawsuit thread and can NOT believe that there is any minimizing of Gil's part in that mess on this site. 

@VelociRapture you're awesome! 

You know, I knew the basics of the lawsuit based on comments around the forum, but last night I actually read through the lawsuit and about half of the thread. It was very triggering, so I'm going to finish now. I couldn't do it all at once. Anyway, I've never been into the Bateseseses. Honestly they bore me. But after reading through the court documents last night, I had to come over here to remind people about how dangerous and evil this cult is! The Bates are active members. The Paines are active members. All of this Bates love truly baffles me. 

[Exjw2015deed]

Ooooo.... Next week. Hand holding and frontal hugs. So scandalous, especially before engagement.

[HereticHick]

Oh Velocirapture-- don't forget what the Bateseseseseses kids did for their parents after that Anniversary Dinner (and yes, I do like to pretend that is an arrangement of lubes & sex toys at the bottom of the bed):

 

 

[VelociRapture]

1 minute ago, HereticHick said:

Oh Velocirapture-- don't forget what the Bateseseseseses kids did for their parents after that Anniversary Dinner:

 

 

... What has been seen cannot be unseen... 

[sunshine]

I have read briefly of the going ons with Gothard thing. If Gil is found out to be guilty as sin, then let the cards fall where they may. I look at like this, let the courts decide on whether he is innocent or guilty. 

[colors_outside15]

On 3/30/2016 at 6:50 AM, Palimpsest said:

Now, now, @nelliebelle1197.  Wake up and smell the coffee.

Alyssa sporting pants and sleeveless tops couldn't possibly mean that her husband has indicated that under his umbrella of protection it is OK if she ditches the frumpers and modest-wear, especially when they are on the campaign trail with Daddy.  Frumpers would look too Duggarish and IBLP and we really wouldn't want anyone to dwell on that connection, would we.

People seem to have polar opposite opinions on this topic. First, someone posts "go, Alyssa" then someone posts, "but look at her father-in-law"! I totally respect all opinions, and it's a snark board, so that's that. 

My two cents (not that it's worth anything) is that Alyssa has taken small steps away from fundie life. Do I think she's hella conservative and I wouldn't be able to stand her in real life? YUP! Do I hate her father-in-law's beliefs? YUP! But, do I think that it's a big step that on instagram right after Allie was born, she told a poster who suggested she model for playboy that her outfit is not responsible for the way men think? Yes, I do, because it's exactly the opposite of what she was taught growing up. She left up both her comment and her picture. Do I think wearing jeans and a tanktop on instagram and wearing tanktop dresses in front of her parents and jeans in front of her siblings is a big step? Yes I do, because I bet Gil and Kelly are angry as fuck, and we know Kelly wants Alyssa's shoulders covered. Do I think it's a big difference that only Alyssa has outright said on TV that she only wants six children NOT "as many as the lord will provide/as many as I'm blessed with/between one and twenty-five? Yes, I do because she's the only one saying that as a public figure fundie. I haven't gotten to question Alyssa on every political topic, and she may or may not even know her answers to all of the political questions I could ask -- but, no matter what she would say now, she will evolve like all of us. I don't know how she'll change and grow, but I do think baby steps are indeed steps, and I recognize her taking them. So, when I look at all fundies, I see the most change (in the direction I like) from Alyssa. Is she perfect? Nope. Do I like her beliefs? Nope. But has she stopped SOME parts of what I hate about her childhood, find oppressive, and believe was ingrained in her? Yes! And to me, that change ... the stepping away from the brainwashing that her clothes cause men to become unfaithful and that shoulders are heathen give me hope that she's beginning to use critical thinking skills that may or may not make her more or less conservative as life continues. Plus, Allie owns pants. It's not Alyssa going pro-choice, but I'm glad her daughter will have more choices than the daughters of many other fundies.

I think part of my point is that no one has to be their parents, but it's really hard to stop doing what you were brainwashed to do. I grew up being told I was literally going to die (as in, be murdered by a specific person) if I didn't follow the exact very straight very narrow very tiny very horrible path. I still have panic attacks and night sweats and I did years of deprogramming therapy and years of other therapies -- and I'd be going now if I could afford to. So, for me, part of acknowledging small steps is that sometimes I have to acknowledge mine, and I know I'm still not being "normal enough", but I'm trying really really fucking hard. So, idk, that's my pov for now. I'm sure, like all humans, it will grow, change, and evolve.

Another bottom line: Do I think the Bateseseses are dangerous as fuck and that Gil and Kelly are actually evil? Yes.

[Snarkle]

Yikes!  Like there's a need to encourage their parents to attempt to procreate more?  It is so squicky how these fundies are so protective of purity before marriage, yet once they're hitched...  I don't want to think too much about my parents spending quality time together - they're celebrating their 50th anniversary in June, but I'm not going to decorate their marital bed with gold balloons and streamers.  I talk to my son about relationships and sex, but I'd be freaked out if he presented my husband and I with a gift basket in our bedroom.  It just seems like there's no middle ground with them - it's either nothing at all, or all in...there's no gray area (and apparently little privacy as well).

[Jana814]

Saw tonight's episode. I thought it was great sweet how all the kids wanted to be a part of the Annivarsary dinner. 

I'm happy for Nathan he seems like a nice guy. But I'm not sure this Ashley girl is going to be happy in backwoods of Tennessee after being so close to a big city like New York. 

[Mecca]

32 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Oh Velocirapture-- don't forget what the Bateseseseseses kids did for their parents after that Anniversary Dinner (and yes, I do like to pretend that is an arrangement of lubes & sex toys at the bottom of the bed):

 

 

MY EYES! MY EYES!!! 

The only thing missing in that picture is a Unicorn farting glitter. 

[19 cats and counting]

Leaving Gil and Kelly out of this for a second.

When we talk about Alyssa's baby steps, the conversation pivots back to her father or FIL.  But I don't think a married woman's parents or in laws influence things like fashion.

Maybe it is my flaming liberal political beliefs speaking, but I (personally or politically) don't like to blame children (minor or adult) for the actions of their parents.   So I won't hate on any of the Bates kids until they open up their mouths and do something that deserves it.   (Lawson won that award today).  

But I also don't think discussing Alyssa or Michael's choices in bridesmaids dresses has anything to do with the lawsuit.  One's fluff and the other is a serious issue (which go back to the father, not the daughters).  We have megathreads about weddings that are just talk of that-- weddings.   The same goes for cute babies, etc.  

Yes they are in a cult.  We all know this.  But how necessary is it to remind people this when you are discussing bridal fashion, cooking, babies, etc?  

[crazysnark]

^YES!!! I feel the exact same way. Some people here will never be happy unless a person totally lines up with their beliefs 100%. If she said "I feel a woman can chose to end a pregnancy in the case of a mothers life being in danger" people here would say "Well she is still against gay marriage!!!!!" I feel that people here can not celebrate the small steps. Also, I want you all to remember she married John, not Taliban Dan. Even if she did campaign for him years ago, that means nothing. I campaigned for Mike Huckabee at the 2008 caucus in Iowa (right next to the Duggars who I had long conversations with). I was just told that was who I should campaign for so I did it. Now that she is married she would never publicly come out against her father in law even if she did disagree with him. That would cause all sorts of turmoil for her family I feel like some people here can never be happy with small victories. Maybe this is because you have NO IDEA what it is like to grow up in such an environment and the strength it takes to deviate only a little from what you were raised in. 

[0 kids n not countin]

Did anyone else notice in one of the talking heads Nathan actually said opposite sex and not opposite gender!  

[nelliebelle1197]

47 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Oh Velocirapture-- don't forget what the Bateseseseseses kids did for their parents after that Anniversary Dinner (and yes, I do like to pretend that is an arrangement of lubes & sex toys at the bottom of the bed):

 

 

Love you, dear HH, but you are now the source of my nightmares.

[nelliebelle1197]

13 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

^YES!!! I feel the exact same way. Some people here will never be happy unless a person totally lines up with their beliefs 100%. If she said "I feel a woman can chose to end a pregnancy in the case of a mothers life being in danger" people here would say "Well she is still against gay marriage!!!!!" I feel that people here can not celebrate the small steps. Also, I want you all to remember she married John, not Taliban Dan. Even if she did campaign for him years ago, that means nothing. I campaigned for Mike Huckabee at the 2008 caucus in Iowa (right next to the Duggars who I had long conversations with). I was just told that was who I should campaign for so I did it. Now that she is married she would never publicly come out against her father in law even if she did disagree with him. That would cause all sorts of turmoil for her family I feel like some people here can never be happy with small victories. Maybe this is because you have NO IDEA what it is like to grow up in such an environment and the strength it takes to deviate only a little from what you were raised in. 

 Um, actually many of us who are super critical of the Alyssa Squeeing DID actually grow up in that environment. Two people posting a lot in the last 5 or 6 pages are women brought up in ATI/IBLP.

See, I look at it exactly the opposite.When the Alyssa Squeeing starts, and the list of Alyssa's "baby steps" & "victories"  starts, I just see a bunch of people who don't know  much at all about ATI/IBLP or moving away from fundamentalism.  Oh yeah, and since Kelly & Gil know the Websters quite well from ATI/IBLP, I am pretty damn sure they knew the dress code for the Webster clan before Alyssa married in and knew John as headship would have a different standard.

Yeah, keep reaching. Or better yet, go back a few pages read the good information and thoughtful posts on  this topic by ATI survivors.

 

[THERetroGamerNY]

I can only speak from experience, but there were no "baby steps" on my breaking from this stuff. And the other survivors I personally know are similiar. We all reached a breaking point and broke free rather abruptly.

I actually find it hard to comprehend a concept like "small steps" like that... A raised hemline on a skirt means precious little in light of how overwhelming fundamentalism is in your brain. The overall fashion of the Duggars has markedly changed over the years, but the same core beliefs are still there rock solid.

It's not the externals, it's the internal thinking.

[colors_outside15]

27 minutes ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

I can only speak from experience, but there were no "baby steps" on my breaking from this stuff. And the other survivors I personally know are similiar. We all reached a breaking point and broke free rather abruptly.

I actually find it hard to comprehend a concept like "small steps" like that... A raised hemline on a skirt means precious little in light of how overwhelming fundamentalism is in your brain. The overall fashion of the Duggars has markedly changed over the years, but the same core beliefs are still there rock solid.

It's not the externals, it's the internal thinking.

That's a really great point ... that's what I did too. I got to the point of internal screaming never stopping and nothing I did ever being enough and all of the abuse being too much for my brain and body that I decided I had two choices: to die or to leave. Since one of my buddies slept with me starting when he/she was six months old, I thought it would be better for her/him (and my other buddies) to find me gone rather than dead. I literally broke, and so I escaped.

I'm still healing and learning and I'm not nearly as advanced in recovery as many people on here, so I'm sure I say dumb things all the time. I guess I hope for Allie, an innocent baby, and when I see small steps in Alyssa, I hope for her and her child that they are healthy changes. I don't know, but I try to give the benefit of the doubt and to be an optimist. I also kinda figure if someone like me can escape, others can figure it out too. 

I'm so sorry if I have offended anyone - especially ATI/IBLP survivors.