Lori Alexander - Still Not Learning A Thing, Part 5

[OnceUponATime]

To me the tattletale thing isn't necessarily really bad. The mom is clearly overwhelmed and I can imagine constant 'innocent' tattling about things just make her mad/not know what to do.

Think of situations like:

"moooooom, bro threw dirt at me"

"moooooooom, he stole a cookie"

"moooooom, he just pinched me"

"mooooooooooom, he looked at my book"

 

The kid could just be feeling ignored and want some attention. He could also be trying to make sure that he doesn't get blamed for all the stuff the other kids are doing wrong.

 

 

[church_of_dog]

Something seems way off, and I wish that the answer would be that this is a fake story, submitted (twice!) to try to show how horrible Klorien's response is.  I really really want that to be the explanation.  But sadly, it might be real.  I don't know how to tell...

[polecat]

From today's comments: 

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I have a friend who is married to a would-be Command man...he is a leader in the business world and is very respected among his employees, yet his wife takes the leadership role in their home.

I'm gonna stop her right there. Seems like the vast majority of people in high-powered positions want to take off from their leadership roles once they get home. Staying "on" like that all the time is simply stressful. If the man wants to relax and let his wife "take charge," whatever that means to them, who the heck cares? Let the "command man" put his feet up once in a while. (I won't even get started on the fact that lots of high-powered men seek comfort from dominatrices and would likely greatly enjoy the company of a wife who has her shit together).These biddies drive me buggy. 

Then she describes this breathtaking display of disrespect:

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"One night my husband and I went to drop something off at their house, and we were standing in their foyer talking, and the man was telling my husband a story and he was getting animated with his gestures, and while his wife and I were silently listening to this story ... "

*on edge of chair* OMG, did she tell him to knock it off with his dramatic gestures? Did she chew him out in front of guests? Did she freak out? WHAT DID SHE DO?

Quote

" ... she quickly and not so discreetly stepped behind him to move one of her knick-knacks from the shelf just in case he would knock it over."

Um ... that's it? She didn't correct him or say anything? She just moved something so that he could continue gesturing dramatically during his story? She made life easier for him since he'd almost certainly have felt bad had he broken something? Hmmm ... not sure how that qualifies as disrespectful. But okay. Maybe there's more ... 

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"He quickly apologized to her and continued on with his story, but with much less gusto than before. How I wish that she knew that by that one motion of distrust, she made her husband look foolish in front of company."

Um. So she moved something so as not to disrupt his flow, he responded with consideration for her feelings ... and suddenly we have a marriage on the rocks with a disrespectful wife and a broken, emasculated man? These people need to mind their own damn business instead of reading way too much into other people's lives.

[OnceUponATime]

the comments on lori's blogs remind me so much of all the gossipy after-church talk that us kids had to endure listening too while we all just wanted to go home and eat!

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When you are fixing dinner, ask him what he wants and then fix it.

Am I the only one who gets told "I don't mind, cook whatever you want"?

 

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You cannot command your husband to love you, and you have no right to expect him to love you when you are unlovely...

It's a shame they can't see the wrongness in this. Because you know if the husband isn't being lovely you're meant to not only love and respect him, but also do his every evil whim without uttering a word.

 

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It was so awful and now they are divorced; a whole family in shambles because she failed to respect her husband.

bolding mine. I wonder if that was the reason the couple gave when asking for a divorce. Somehow I doubt it.

[Koala]

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You cannot command your husband to love you, and you have no right to expect him to love you when you are unlovely...His very nature is made to respond to us if we will only treat him with reverence.* 

You won't find any scripture cited to support this statement- because there isn't any.

I wish I had a dime for every time Lori has harshly told women that submission doesn't come with an exception clause (of course she's made up a few instances in which she allows for it, but those are merely things she's pulled out of thin air).  Why then, are men not expected to love their wives whether they're being lovely or not?

Ephesians 5:25

 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it

I see nothing there about loving her if she is lovely.  I also see nothing that says he is to love his wife if she is treating him with reverence.  Those things are entirely made up by either Debi Pearl or Lori Alexander (the way she writes, it's impossible to tell if you're reading what she wrote or what Debi wrote).  You will not find what they are saying anywhere in scripture.
 

You will, however, find numerous passages of scripture on gossip and carrying tales.

Lori:

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We were on vacation with one older couple staying at the cabin with us and one time I was coming down to the cabin and she was on the driveway above the cabin screaming at her husband down below. It was so awful and now they are divorced; a whole family in shambles because she failed to respect her husband.

Scripture says:

1 Timothy 5:13

At the same time they also learn to be idle, as they go around from house to house; and not merely idle, but also gossips and busybodies, talking about things not proper to mention.

Not only is Lori being a gossip and a busybody, she is very possibly slandering this woman by telling her readers that the failure of the marriage was because the wife did not respect her husband.

Proverbs 6: 16-19

There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.

Day after day Lori uses her blog as a tool to gossip about family, friends, her church, readers, people she mentors, women in the chat room.  She loves nothing more than to hold some poor soul up for the vultures to attack.

The Bible very clearly outlines how you are supposed to handle it when you see you brother falling into sin, and running to your blog to blab it to the sheeple is NOT part of the plan.

[quiversR4hunting]

1 hour ago, OnceUponATime said:

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When you are fixing dinner, ask him what he wants and then fix it.

Am I the only one who gets told "I don't mind, cook whatever you want"?

The version I get at home is "I don't care, what do you want?" Then I make a suggestion and then it is "naw, I was thinking...."

To be fair, my husband and I now ask- do you have a preference what is made for dinner? Then the other person may say, not chicken or not tacos, etc. Then that starts to narrow down the prospects.

[Koala]

These people major on the minors.  In Lori's mind, a whole financial arrangement marriage can hinge on whether the husband buys the wife the right Valentines gift, or the wife "reverences" her husband by fixing something he likes for dinner.  

[louisa05]

1 hour ago, OnceUponATime said:

the comments on lori's blogs remind me so much of all the gossipy after-church talk that us kids had to endure listening too while we all just wanted to go home and eat!

Am I the only one who gets told "I don't mind, cook whatever you want"?

 

It's a shame they can't see the wrongness in this. Because you know if the husband isn't being lovely you're meant to not only love and respect him, but also do his every evil whim without uttering a word.

 

bolding mine. I wonder if that was the reason the couple gave when asking for a divorce. Somehow I doubt it.

I plan a week's worth of meals before going grocery shopping each weekend. 

Real conversation Saturday: 

Me: Is there anything particular you want me to make this week? 

Husband: Can't think of anything. 

Me: Thank you. That was very helpful. 

And that occurs nearly every weekend. So he eats whatever I make and never complains about any of it. 

[salex]

OK, once upon a time on a weekend long, long ago, I asked my husband what he wanted for lunch and he said he didn't care.  So I gave him an opened can of beans with a slice of lunchmeat on the can....and he loved me then and now. He may even have laughed at the time, because he knew he had been given options.

Meanwhile, I've been married practically forever. Unlike Lori, I didn't bitch at my husband on our honeymoon for his college boy preferences in snacks... and my husband has had a few over the years  that I didn't share (yes, cheese in a can in the early 80s, Vienna sausages for a while, sardines... and now it is more likely to be sushi, and sashimi or oysters on the half shell.  Since he is and was when I married him, a grown up, his food choices are his own.  Same for me. Occasionally, we'll say what do you want for dinner and he'll make seafood and i'll make something else that isn't seafood, we'll open a bottle of wine and watch a movie... ah romance!

We often shop together,  and he cooks about half the time, lately, so he has plenty of say in what goes on the menu. 

I have moved glasses out of his way so he won't knock them over while talking with his hands.  I have also done the same thing for his sister, who is known for knocking glasses over at the table.... it is meant as a kindness, not a rebuke. It also is to avoid what I experienced at a dinner party a few years ago when a friend's wife didn't do this for her husband, and we ended up changing the wine soaked table cloth not just once but twice! The hostess (not me or the wife) was very good about the whole thing....I doubt Lori would have been as good about it.  

I will say my visionary command man (or whatever Lorken would use to describe my husband... Alpha, type A, whatever) has always expected a visionary, command woman (or whatever) because he believes any sort of less forceful wife would end up fading into the woodwork.

Lori and Ken view people as pathetic as themselves.  They lack imagination about how good life or marriage can be. I hate that they look so normal but are so dangerous... sort of like rat poison in a brownie.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[polecat]

I asked my husband how he'd feel if I moved something away from his gesticulating hands.

"What? What do you mean?"
"Like, if you were talking with your hands, and I moved something so you wouldn't break it."
"I doubt I'd even notice."
"So even though I moved something so you wouldn't break it, you wouldn't feel disrespected?"
"That's stupid. Why would I feel disrespected? What #$%%^#$ are you even reading anyway?"

"Some woman who thinks it's disrespectful to move stuff away from your husband's hands."
"She's stupid."

 

As far as dinner, I do all the cooking and planning. I know what my husband likes, and I cook it. I also know what he doesn't like (but I like), so I try to cook that when I know he won't be eating dinner that night (due to work schedule or whatever). It's not hard.

Lori and Ken make marriage sound like So. Much. Work. 
 

[Sera's Arrow]

In my experience, it's not a family gathering until something breaks. It's tradition now and it must happen! Usually at the dinner table, usually a wine glass, usually because of wild gestures or sudden movements. Even though we tend to look out for one another by putting things in positions that it's hard to knock over, one of my clan will find a way. We always will.

If their idea of a scandalous faux pas is a wife protecting fragiles from jazz hands, I wonder what they think of a husband who will get up and serve their wife and her friend wine before it's even requested? They'd probably need smelling salts to revive them from their shock. 

[louisa05]

1 hour ago, polecat said:

I asked my husband how he'd feel if I moved something away from his gesticulating hands.

"What? What do you mean?"
"Like, if you were talking with your hands, and I moved something so you wouldn't break it."
"I doubt I'd even notice."
"So even though I moved something so you wouldn't break it, you wouldn't feel disrespected?"
"That's stupid. Why would I feel disrespected? What #$%%^#$ are you even reading anyway?"

"Some woman who thinks it's disrespectful to move stuff away from your husband's hands."
"She's stupid."

 

As far as dinner, I do all the cooking and planning. I know what my husband likes, and I cook it. I also know what he doesn't like (but I like), so I try to cook that when I know he won't be eating dinner that night (due to work schedule or whatever). It's not hard.

Lori and Ken make marriage sound like So. Much. Work. 
 

Oh, but the fundies and fundie-lite people I know love nothing more than to shake their heads sadly and say as forlornly as possible "marriage is hard work". 

I know enough people on that spectrum that I heard that until I wanted to start slapping people during my engagement. Since I actually went through with marrying an evil Catholic (and converting) most of them stopped speaking to me shortly after, though. 

 

[OnceUponATime]

@polecatyou can't have a good godly marriage if it isn't full of suffering and hard work! don't be silly. that would mean actually getting married to someone that you liked, admired, respected and knew well enough. That's just not how it goes.

I don't dare ask my SO about what would happen if I moved stuff because I'm the one who breaks everything.

I am going to follow his leadership and buy myself pizza this week though. He is not home for 3 nights in a row and apparently that means I deserve pizza. I'm not complaining, I dislike cooking for one and usually forget to eat

 

[2xx1xy1JD]

That anonymous mother is seriously scary, and so is the idea of her getting parenting advice from Lori, Ken and the Pearls.

Clearly, mom doesn't have a clue, isn't coping well with 8 kids and the older boys are crying out for attention.

It's a complicated mess, but these tips would help improve things:

1.  Give the kids access to enough food, allow them to participate in menu planning and meal preparation, and have some structured meal and snack times.  Then, chill out a bit.  Kids can decide when they have eaten enough.  They can grab a snack.  Seriously, these are not horrible sins, and being a control freak about this is distracting from things that actually matter.

2.  STOP being a control freak in general, and stop thinking that discipline is all about punishing and policing bad behavior.  You seriously do not need to escort children to the bathroom, unless they are too little to wipe their own butts.  Teach them to say, "I'm done, may I be excused?", and then let them run along when they are finished eating.

3.  Speaking of bathroom issues - if you've ruled out physical issues, maybe they are soiling themselves because they are desperate to control something, since the mom seems to think that it's normal to escort children to the bathroom during meals and police food.  Acting up also seems to be something the kids do when they are desperate for attention.  So....stop being control freaks, don't police food or going to the bathroom, and pay attention to your kids before they act up.  Also, don't freak out over accidents.  Just let the kids know where the washing machine is.

4.  Send the kids to school.  Clearly, you are not coping with 8 kids at home.  They are not learning anything, nor are they becoming civilized human beings.  If there is no physical cause, the accidents will stop quickly, because at school, soiling your pants doesn't get you fun attention, it gets the other kids teasing you.

5.  Kids often scream and act out if there is no other way to get heard.  Listen to the kids.  Make sure to respond to little quiet voices.  If there is screaming, do not respond and remind that you can only hear indoor voices.  Teach kids how to get your attention.

8.  Look for good stuff in your kids every day.  Write a note or announce to the family what each one did right - and make it genuine, not sarcastic (because "John finally went a whole day without shitting his pants" isn't a feel-good phrase).  When you force yourself to look for good stuff and praise it, you tend to find it more easily.

[desertvixen]

Count me in on the giving your SO options about dinner.  I also (shock) consult my daughter about what she thinks we should have - X or Y?

As far as the mother being discussed above, they need help.  Professional help.  Especially if physical issues have been ruled out.  She needs more than anyone's advice on the internet.

That's one of the things I find fascinating about some of the people we follow, that need for total control ALL THE TIME.  No wonder they say everything is so much work.  Especially on snacks.  Kids like to snack.  My daughter's 9 and grew 2 inches in 6 months, of course she snacks.  So my solution is to have a little bin that is filled with reasonable snacks (baggies of goldfish, pretzels, granola bars, fruit snacks, etc) and she is free to snack from that pretty much at will.  I'll cut her off if I'm in the actual process of cooking dinner, but the kids need food.

[feministxtian]

WTF is up with the control shit? I have enough trouble controlling myself let alone anyone else! 

Dinner time (just the 2 of us) goes something like this: "I'm hungry." "Me too" "what do you feel like eating?" "Food". "ok, I'll throw something together" later...after dinner..."damn, that was good...make it again"

Grocery shopping is insane...we're like 2 kids in a candy store now that we don't have to worry about the adult kids eating us out of house and home. 

I'm the one who talks with my hands...hubs has been known to move all kinds of stuff out of my way. I do the same when he's doing stuff. 

I don't get this dom/sub marriage idea. the only time I get really bitchy with Mr. xtian is when I know his blood sugars are out of whack...then I will ride his ass like a horse for him to test and do what he needs to do. He gets fussy with me when I forget to take my meds...

The rest of the time we're laughing, joking, talking shit, having a blast...

 

[Curious]

I don't know about manly command man types, but honestly I find it EXHAUSTING to be the meal time decision maker every. single. day.

I know my husband is trying to be nice and make sure I'm eating things I like and that I am hungry for and I appreciate it, but sometimes I just don't give a fuck and don't want to have to make the decision.

I'm relatively sure I'd feel the same way if I were a man

[Vex]

Wow. I am super glad my boyfriend doesn't subscribe to the 'you have no right to be loved if you're not being lovely' school of thought.

How, then, could we continue to be together when I explode in a torrent of swearing when I want to use the dragon balls that I just spent an hour and a half collecting to level up in dragon ball xenoverse and the option to do so has mysteriously disappeared because the game is buggy as hell and I now have to grind (literally) a million experience points to get to the next level? That happened today.

We also had an interesting conversation where we talked about our faults. I complain a lot and I'm ditzy as hell sometimes but somehow he manages to love me in spite of my less-than-charming quirks. Isn't that pretty much what a relationship entails?

Welp, off to tell him he's not allowed to love me any more. Lori and Ken are his favourite fundies so no doubt he'll listen and rebuke me appropriately.

[OnceUponATime]

5 hours ago, Curious said:

I'm relatively sure I'd feel the same way if I were a man

Blasphemy. No you wouldn't! Quite clearly men are designed by God to be always making all the decisions. They can't not like it, because that would mean they aren't accepting their God-given roles! If you were being encouraged to claim your G-g role by your submissive spouse you would not find it exhausting. You would instead swell up with manly pride (of the non-sinful type).

[Koala]

http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/03/for-husbands-who-dont-want-submissive.html

Look at this from 2013:

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Some of the women I mentor tell me their husbands don't want them to be submissive.  I encourage them to ask their husbands these questions ~

You don't want me to please you?

You don't want me to give you sex when you want it?

You don't want me to fix your favorite foods?

You want me to continue arguing and quarreling with you?

You like it when I give you the cold shoulder?

You like me to always insist on winning arguments?

You don't want me to do things you ask me to do and conveniently forget about them?

You want me to speak ill of you to others?

You want me to not respect or appreciate you?

Satan has so completely destroyed the word "submission" that even godly men have fallen victim to his lies.  It doesn't mean a wife will lose her personality, or her opinions, or even her quirks.  It simply means she is going to learn what pleases their husband in every area and try to make him happy.

So husbands, if you don't want your wives to submit, it is completely your fault when your marriage falls apart.

She really doesn't understand that people can have happy, successful relationships with no desire to control each other.  She also doesn't seem to realize how childish and manipulative she sounds with the above questions.

 

[Vex]

Oh, Lori. Just because you're a harpy and you and Ken make each other miserable doesn't mean it's the norm.

You don't want me to please you?

Amazingly, I don't have to put in effort to please my boyfriend. I please him by being myself.

You don't want me to give you sex when you want it?

My boyfriend would never want me to have sex with him just because he wanted it. Most men wouldn't.

You don't want me to fix your favorite foods?

He'll eat pretty much anything. Enough said.

You want me to continue arguing and quarreling with you?

We don't argue and quarrel. We discuss any problems calmly and reasonably. Amazing that two adults can work out their issues without passive-aggressiveness or nastiness, Lori.

You like it when I give you the cold shoulder?

Have never done it, will never do it. If I have a problem I tell him straight up. He does the same because we respect each other.

You like me to always insist on winning arguments?

Why are arguments always about winning or losing for her? Not that we argue, but I don't feel the need to be right. I want to learn and grow and you can't do that unless you admit when you're wrong.

You don't want me to do things you ask me to do and conveniently forget about them?

If he asked me to do something and I forgot, he wouldn't care. Likewise, I don't mind if he forgets things. I wouldn't passive-aggressively 'pretend' to forget.

You want me to speak ill of you to others?

Who even does this to someone they love?

You want me to not respect or appreciate you?

Again, how do you even relationship without those things coming naturally? Why are you with a person you neither respect nor appreciate? I respect and appreciate him because he's a wonderful person and I love him. It's a no-brainer.

So, according to those standards he and I have a perfect relationship without me submitting. The only time I 'submit' to him is when we sarcastically roleplay Lori and Ken (or PP and Zsu), actually.

[OnceUponATime]

My problem with all those questions is that they mostly have nothing to do with being submissive. Sure a submissive doormat who doesn't say a word isn't going to argue, but just because you're not submissive doesn't mean you're constantly arguing or needing to be right. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Vex said:

The only time I 'submit' to him is when we sarcastically roleplay Lori and Ken (or PP and Zsu), actually.

that is something i never wanted to read.

[Vex]

1 hour ago, OnceUponATime said:

My problem with all those questions is that they mostly have nothing to do with being submissive. Sure a submissive doormat who doesn't say a word isn't going to argue, but just because you're not submissive doesn't mean you're constantly arguing or needing to be right. 

 

 

that is something i never wanted to read.

Ha ha, no. It's just 'hey, you need to get on the horse of truth' or 'you need to stop working on X and start working on my breakfast' type stuff. God, no, I didn't even think it would come across that way! LOL sorry for that.

[OnceUponATime]

@Vex my bf gives me single jellybeans (but not for being good) which I don't get to choose the flavor of. He has no clue that I find it amusing because of Erika.

 

[Sera's Arrow]

Satan has so completely destroyed the word "submission" that even godly men have fallen victim to his lies.

Satan wrote dictionaries now? Well, least it would explain why so many of these fundies can't spell. To them, any book of knowledge and fact probably looks like this.

Spoiler

Just remember the three sacred words before you pick it up and you should be fine. Nothing bad will happen. Or something.