Jill Duggar Dillard Part 10: Taking Photos of Screaming Izzie

[Alicja]

these people make me sick. did God personally come to you and tell you that Catholics and Muslims are going to Hell? Did He ever tell you only KJV-reading white, hetero Christians are going to Heaven? Please cite your conversation with Him in APA format.

[ClaraOswin]

4 hours ago, FloraKitty35 said:

I could imagine Jill confusing Zika with Zima.  

Zima...does that still exist? I remember drinking it in college. We'd drop a jolly rancher (do these still exist?!) in the bottom of the bottle. Yuck.

[Bad Wolf]

Those poor Italians with no exposure to the gospel. Than goodness for SOS ministries.

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, Alicja said:

these people make me sick. did God personally come to you and tell you that Catholics and Muslims are going to Hell? Did He ever tell you only KJV-reading white, hetero Christians are going to Heaven? Please cite your conversation with Him in APA format.

APA! You godless social scientist you!  

[socalrules]

So if he spent three years in Italy being a missionary, I assume that means he spent three years on vacation. I would just love to hear a conversation any of these fundies trying to explain to a Catholic, in Italy of all places, about how they are going to bring them to good news of the Gospel and teach them about someone named Jesus Christ the Catholic just couldn't have heard of. It's beyond preaching to the choir.

At mass this morning, the Gospel was about Jesus turning the water into wine. I would love to have a conversation with a fundy about it. Wine, not grape juice, Mr. Keller. 

[HereticHick]

18 minutes ago, socalrules said:

So if he spent three years in Italy being a missionary, I assume that means he spent three years on vacation. I would just love to hear a conversation any of these fundies trying to explain to a Catholic, in Italy of all places, about how they are going to bring them to good news of the Gospel and teach them about someone named Jesus Christ the Catholic just couldn't have heard of. It's beyond preaching to the choir.

At mass this morning, the Gospel was about Jesus turning the water into wine. I would love to have a conversation with a fundy about it. Wine, not grape juice, Mr. Keller. 

oh believe me, if you go back to my Appalachian hometown, every other person you encounter will swear up and down that the Bible REALLY means "grape juice" in all the places it says "wine."  They also believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God and there are no mistranslations. [Except for the "grape juice" parts of course]

Thus Endeth Your Southern Baptist Sunday School Lesson of the Day.

[Denim Jumper]

37 minutes ago, socalrules said:

So if he spent three years in Italy being a missionary, I assume that means he spent three years on vacation. I would just love to hear a conversation any of these fundies trying to explain to a Catholic, in Italy of all places, about how they are going to bring them to good news of the Gospel and teach them about someone named Jesus Christ the Catholic just couldn't have heard of. It's beyond preaching to the choir.

At mass this morning, the Gospel was about Jesus turning the water into wine. I would love to have a conversation with a fundy about it. Wine, not grape juice, Mr. Keller. 

I always wondered about that, and remember asking my former pastor how it could be grape juice when Ephesians cautions against being "drunk with wine"? Also, in the story of turning water to wine, the banquet master noted that the wine was the good stuff, not the cheaper wine that is normally served after the guests are too drunk to know the difference.  Who gets drunk off of grape juice? I never did get answer

[Bad Wolf]

We have real wine for communion along with grape juice for those who prefer no alcohol. We also had the water into wine Gospel, but the sermon was about being sanctioned by the Anglican church in addition to the signs and wonders.

[EmCatlyn]

40 minutes ago, socalrules said:

So if he spent three years in Italy being a missionary, I assume that means he spent three years on vacation. I would just love to hear a conversation any of these fundies trying to explain to a Catholic, in Italy of all places, about how they are going to bring them to good news of the Gospel and teach them about someone named Jesus Christ the Catholic just couldn't have heard of. It's beyond preaching to the choir.

At mass this morning, the Gospel was about Jesus turning the water into wine. I would love to have a conversation with a fundy about it. Wine, not grape juice, Mr. Keller. 

What I wonder is what these fundies think is " the Gospel."  Do they mean  Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, or do they use "Gospel" as a shorthand term for "The parts of the Bible we like to read?"

My guess is that whatever they are doing in Catholic countries (besides just hanging out feeling superior to the populace) their approach to Catholics is not "Have you heard about Jesus Christ?" but some version of "Have you read the Bible?"

My freshman year of college, the daughter of a Pentecostal minister was one of my roommates (we were 3 to a room) for a semester.  This was my first exposure to Protestant fundies.   I remember being asked a lot about my Bible reading but everyone in my roommate's circle assumed that as a nominal Roman Catholic I knew about Jesus. 

What bothers me most about these ATI and SOS fundies proselytizing in Catholic countries is that they talk as though they are going to convert a bunch of people who have never heard of Jesus to Christianity.  But they know darn well that RCs know about Jesus. 

[Jucifer]

56 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

oh believe me, if you go back to my Appalachian hometown, every other person you encounter will swear up and down that the Bible REALLY means "grape juice" in all the places it says "wine."  They also believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God and there are no mistranslations. [Except for the "grape juice" parts of course]

Thus Endeth Your Southern Baptist Sunday School Lesson of the Day.

I heard this time and time again in Seventh Day Adventist churches.  Even as a little girl it sounded like BS to me.

[EmCatlyn]

8 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

We have real wine for communion along with grape juice for those who prefer no alcohol. We also had the water into wine Gospel, but the sermon was about being sanctioned by the Anglican church in addition to the signs and wonders.

You attend an Episcopal Church and they actually talked about the sanctions?  Ours didn't.  The sermon was about the wine representing God's Feast for the soul as well as the body.

My husband and I were hoping to hear about the sanctions and what they will mean in the long run.  He is a lifetime Episcopalian, and kind of heartbroken to realize the Anglican Communion is getting ready o kick us out.

(We also offer only wine. If you don't want wine, don't drink it. But we offer gluten free wafers.)

[momofsquid]

My childhood best friend was a (Canadian) Baptist and as a kid she was horrified to see a bottle of wine in our house. I knew they did some kind of communion rite in her church so I asked her if they use wine. "No! Grape juice and soda crackers!" she said, obviously horrified. My ~12-year-old self found that hilarious. Incidentally, my friend eventually developed a healthy appetite for cheap wine.

[Mercer]

18 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Oh my goodness Mercer, you must be one of those EBIL Catholics! 

EVEN WORSE.

I'm an Episcopalian.

6 hours ago, accountingstar said:

Mike didn’t go to seminary either Mike was a missionary in Italy for 3 years. He is finding places where the gospel has not come.

In Italy? Home of the pope, the Sistine Chapel, Michelangelo, etc? (Yes, I'm lumping Vatican City in there but... seriously.)

Look, I like Italian food and looking at art too, but I don't pretend to be a missionary to go see it.

 

Quote

Mike went to the Middle East to evangelize the Muslims. According to Mike, a great way to a Muslim’s heart is their stomach.

 

I think that Mike has discovered the basic truth that human beings of any religion will put up with a great deal of BS for free food.

[Catey]

1 hour ago, momofsquid said:

My childhood best friend was a (Canadian) Baptist and as a kid she was horrified to see a bottle of wine in our house. I knew they did some kind of communion rite in her church so I asked her if they use wine. "No! Grape juice and soda crackers!" she said, obviously horrified. My ~12-year-old self found that hilarious. Incidentally, my friend eventually developed a healthy appetite for cheap wine.

According to my Grandma (Canadian IFB) the only women who drank wine were easy to spot. They all wore blue eyeshadow. The makeup of the devil.

[calimojo]

I am old so, so bear with me, but I do remember when I was a kid, there was some "distrust" between local protestant churches towards catholics.  When my cousin married a Catholic and they were married in a RC church, it was mildly scandalous and I think  one very persnickety old Aunt refused to come to the ceremony, though she did show up for free food at the reception, only to leave in a huff when she realized alcohol was being served. 

 

That being said, was over 40 years ago, and my own social and familiar circle,  no one every gives any thought to the Catholic vs Non Catholics anymore. 

 

So it just feels so odd to me that there is this movement of assholes out there who are aggressively anti Catholic.  And who would feel the need to go to Italy of all places to try to be a missionary.

 

It really feels as if this SOS character wants to be a pretend missionary and has decided to focus on countries that are already predominantly Christian so that he doesn't really have to do anything at all similar to what real missionaries do.  I don't happen to believe in Hell, but if I did, I would say there is a special place in hell for someone who cons well meaning people out of their money all based on lies and misrepresentation. 

[missegeno]

8 minutes ago, Catey said:

According to my Grandma (Canadian IFB) the only women who drank wine were easy to spot. They all wore blue eyeshadow. The makeup of the devil.

What about green eyeliner?

#jrod

[Cleopatra7]

I remember seeing a picture of a sign hung on a door in Spanish with a picture of Our Lady Of Guadalupe that basically said that the occupants of the house in question were Catholic, and not to come to the door with evangelization in mind, because no one is interested. I think the signs were designed for Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons in particular, but would also be appropriate for Protestant fundies. I hope someone in Guatemala have a sign like that, so the Dullards and their ick can know their "services" are not wanted.

[EmCatlyn]

7 minutes ago, Mercer said:

EVEN WORSE.

I'm an Episcopalian.

In Italy? Home of the pope, the Sistine Chapel, Michelangelo, etc? (Yes, I'm lumping Vatican City in there but... seriously.)

Look, I like Italian food and looking at art too, but I don't pretend to be a missionary to go see it.

I think that Mike has discovered the basic truth that human beings of any religion will put up with a great deal of BS for free food.

I think I knew you were an Episcopalian.  I was pretending to be a Fundie.  Did I do a good job?  I really think I hit on something about why Gothard wouldn't like the Catholic Virgin Mary.  (A woman who doesn't satisfy her husband's lust the minute he hints at desire is surely not someone to venerate.)

You may be right that to the Fundies the Episcopalians may be worse.  I mean we could be reading the Bible but instead we ... Wait.  We do read the Bible. You quoted the Bible.  Hmmm...

As for feeding the potential converts, it would be nice if Jill and Derrick got even that far.  Their adventures in Central America seem to have more about what they eat than how the poor people could be fed.

[Mercer]

13 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

I think I knew you were an Episcopalian.  I was pretending to be a Fundie.  Did I do a good job?  I really think I hit on something about why Gothard wouldn't like the Catholic Virgin Mary.  (A woman who doesn't satisfy her husband's lust the minute he hints at desire is surely not someone to venerate.)

You may be right that to the Fundies the Episcopalians may be worse.  I mean we could be reading the Bible but instead we ... Wait.  We do read the Bible. You quoted the Bible.  Hmmm...

As for feeding the potential converts, it would be nice if Jill and Derrick got even that far.  Their adventures in Central America seem to have more about what they eat than how the poor people could be fed.

Excellent fundie impression!

I assume Episcopalians would be worse because as a denomination (not every individual person or church, obviously) we do everything they dislike about the Catholics, plus the whole gay marriage thing.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, Mercer said:

Excellent fundie impression!

I assume Episcopalians would be worse because as a denomination (not every individual person or church, obviously) we do everything they dislike about the Catholics, plus the whole gay marriage thing.

Not worse because we still have the whole Pope thing which they haaaaate.  So I will see your pro-gay marriage and raise you one guy in Rome with fancy hats who can speak ex-cathedra ...

their brains will break trying to quantify our degrees of wrongness.

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

I think that Mike has discovered the basic truth that human beings of any religion will put up with a great deal of BS for free food.

Not just religion - Twice a year I am required to lead a meeting everyone hates...I always stop by Panera for muffins because at least then most people show up on time.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

40 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

  I really think I hit on something about why Gothard wouldn't like the Catholic Virgin Mary.  (A woman who doesn't satisfy her husband's lust the minute he hints at desire is surely not someone to venerate.)

Yeah, but she did have the ultimate homebirth.  

Youre right though, besides the virgin thing she was on board with her son making wine for everyone and odds are never got even one crunchy perm.

shes not Gothard material.

[socalrules]

I never understood why fundies ignore Mary. God found her holy enough to decide that she, out of everyone in the world, was to give birth to his child. She had such great faith that she believed God and did exactly what he wanted her to do. She raised the perfect son. She never lost her faith for a moment, even when her son was on the cross. She ascended into heaven. She is basically the epitome of the perfect mother. I don't understand the mental gymnastics fundies have to do to pretend that she does not have great importance in the story of Jesus. 

[Cleopatra7]

1 minute ago, socalrules said:

I never understood why fundies ignore Mary. God found her holy enough to decide that she, out of everyone in the world, was to give birth to his child. She had such great faith that she believed God and did exactly what he wanted her to do. She raised the perfect son. She never lost her faith for a moment, even when her son was on the cross. She ascended into heaven. She is basically the epitome of the perfect mother. I don't understand the mental gymnastics fundies have to do to pretend that she does not have great importance in the story of Jesus. 

I think it's mostly a reaction to medieval cults to the Virgin that the Protestant reformers believed were some combination of un-biblical, superstition, or idolatrous. Until relatively recently, many WASPs believed that the US was set up specifically as a country for white Protestantism, and feared that too many Catholics would cause a decline in "racial stock" and cause the country to take on the authoritarian habits found in Catholic countries, especially Spain and Latin America. For our Southern fundies in the IFB world, Catholicism is considered "un-Christian" because it's based on "man-made traditions" rather than "bible-based." They would also say that the Bible, not the pope should be the ultimate arbiter of doctrinal questions. But Gothard and other "men of god" essentially function as popes to their flocks, so I don't really see a difference. I guess I missed the part in the KJV Bible that demands soft wavy curls as the only "biblical" hairstyle.

[EmCatlyn]

53 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I think it's mostly a reaction to medieval cults to the Virgin that the Protestant reformers believed were some combination of un-biblical, superstition, or idolatrous. Until relatively recently, many WASPs believed that the US was set up specifically as a country for white Protestantism, and feared that too many Catholics would cause a decline in "racial stock" and cause the country to take on the authoritarian habits found in Catholic countries, especially Spain and Latin America. For our Southern fundies in the IFB world, Catholicism is considered "un-Christian" because it's based on "man-made traditions" rather than "bible-based." They would also say that the Bible, not the pope should be the ultimate arbiter of doctrinal questions. But Gothard and other "men of god" essentially function as popes to their flocks, so I don't really see a difference. I guess I missed the part in the KJV Bible that demands soft wavy curls as the only "biblical" hairstyle.

People forget that when JFK ran for president it was a big deal that a Catholic was running and Kennedy had to keep explaining that he would not obey the Pope over the interests of the American people.  (Not just the Spanish and Italians and Poles but the Irish were considered "another race" until the first few decades of the 20th century.)

As for the Virgin Mary, part of the problem (besides the historical fear of idolatry) is that she is a powerful woman. She derives her power from precisely the things that "good Fundie women" are told to do and be.  She was submissive, the ultimate good mother, chosen by God, etc.. Patriarchal Fundies don't want their women thinking that being "good" might give a woman power.  They really hate the idea (central to Catholic worship) that Mary listens to her son.  

We were talking about the wedding at Cana in another message.  (It was today's  gospel reading in most of the Liturgical denominations including Catholic and Episcopalian.). In this reading, Mary asks Jesus to do something about the wine (it has run out) and Jesus replies something along the lines of "Mom, this is not what I am here for,"  but then he changes the water into wine--presumably because she asked it.

 

[artdecades]

2 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I remember seeing a picture of a sign hung on a door in Spanish with a picture of Our Lady Of Guadalupe that basically said that the occupants of the house in question were Catholic, and not to come to the door with evangelization in mind, because no one is interested. I think the signs were designed for Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons in particular, but would also be appropriate for Protestant fundies. I hope someone in Guatemala have a sign like that, so the Dullards and their ick can know their "services" are not wanted.

In order for the Dullards to to know that they are unwanted, they would need to learn to read spanish well enough to understand and we all know that isn't happening any time soon