Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge

[bea]

My belief is that the FBI and other law enforcement organizations are choosing to let the Bundys have enough rope to hang themselves. No one is taking them seriously, they do not have enough supplies to get through the winter, and everything they have done, from tearing down a fence to building a road, has been met with derision, outrage, and anger from the community. They cannot continue to stay there. They are going to arrange something so that they can leave, and then they will probably be arrested for trespassing on federal land, interfering with federal business, using the computers, rummaging through the files, interfering with Native American artifacts, etc.

Frankly, I think this group was hoping for an armed response from law enforcement. That's why they didn't get one. They have their guns, their camo, their military boots, and their grand plans. The FBI and other law enforcement basically let them sit in this wildlife preserve, 30 miles from anything, and just.... occupy it. That's why they're tearing down fences and building roads, because they are afraid that the media is moving on to other stories. The Bundys and their buddies aren't interesting anymore. A group of middle-aged white guys with guns sitting around in a remote Wildlife Refuge claiming to be doing it on behalf of a bunch of ranchers who say they don't want the Bundys representing them? Yawn. The most coverage I have seen of them lately was when one of them opened a box of candy penises and freaked out.

I believe the FBI does have someone, or several someones, on the inside. I think they're just waiting it out. The Bundys will not spend the rest of the winter there. Neither will any of the other occupiers. They wanted to make their point, they have some kind of crazy grand plan of turning this Wildlife Refuge over to local control, over to people who have said they don't want it. There's no real way to do that. The Bundys know that, so does the FBI.

Best case scenario, the Bundys walk out of there, the US Attorney spends a month putting a case together, and then the FBI goes out and scoops up the Bundys at their ranch (congratulating themselves on "freeing" federal land by sitting on their asses eating Cheetoes) and they are tried in court.

I think that law enforcement is doing exactly what the Bundys don't want them to do - staying out of sight, staying out of the way, and letting the Bundys play out this idiotic pantomime across all the media in the world.

[Criscat]

I haven't read the entire thread, but as an Oregonian, a couple things stand out. This  started as a peaceful protest of the Hammonds going to jail. Feds were going to land grab their property once they were in jail since their property was on the edge of the refuge. That was one of the things that upset them. (this is just one of the issues) and THAT part is fine. I can actually see how they would do everything they could to keep hold of their land. Not excusing them, of course, but I get why the original protest was done. Protest is protected under the law. Where it spiraled is a fringe group(Bundys) took control of the protest and turned it into what it's become. I don't think they really had a plan. I also think there is no longer a clear WHY they are doing it,( hence the militant/terrorist aspect) but I'm afraid it won't end well. I think Feds are treading lightly due to Waco/Ruby Ridge. As a few of you suggested. The kind of stubbornness on display by the Bundys  make me think someone is going to get killed...which is what the Feds are trying to prevent. I pray this ends peacefully. 

[Howl]

There has been some mutual butt sniffing between the FBI and Bundy in the last few days but no tail wagging yet.  Ammon Bundy's willingness to negotiate is conditional on media being present for all negotiations.  

Early on the occupiers were offered face-saving exit options, and declined all of them.  When you have people who think they are acting on a Mission from God, rationality and common sense simply will not prevail. 

 

 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Well, I fell down a bit of a rabbit hole reading some of those articles and then following links . . . . 

I now live about as far from Oregon as I could in the CONUS, but I grew up in the Southwest.  I understand the inherent tensions in ranching and interacting with the government, but these ranchers are coming across as the very entitled welfare recipients they claim to oppose.  Just because they had received sweetheart deals, they are not perpetually entitled to them.  And, yes, the western resources and ecosystem are very delicate.

It's a sad, sad situation.  I don't understand why a blockade isn't in place.  (I'm not sure I buy the "they don't want to escalate the sitch" explanation that was being offered.)

Some odd elements.  Just doesn't make sense.

[doggie]

Bundy Terrorist Dragged His Little Girls Out Of School To Serve As Human Shields In Oregon Standoff

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/01/23/bundy-terrorist-dragged-his-little-girls-out-of-school-to-serve-as-human-shields-in-oregon-standoff/

 

Quote

What kind of man would pull his daughters from the safety of their school and place them in the middle of an armed standoff? A Bundy terrorist.

On January 2nd, Ammon Bundy and his deranged band of gun-toting marauders seized the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in an effort to force the federal government to release two idiot ranchers who illegally set fire to federal land. The pair were sentenced to five years in prison, which is the mandatory sentence for such a crime.

Of course, Bundy and others who dare to call themselves a “militia” decided to takeover the wildlife refuge in protest and are hoping to spark a war with federal law enforcement. But they arrived abysmally unprepared and began begging the public to send them supplies to aid in their lawbreaking, which thus far includes treason, domestic terrorism, illegally carrying firearms on federal property, property damage, threatening law enforcement, disturbing Native American artifacts, and being total douchebags.

And now we can add child endangerment and abuse to the growing list.

According to Oregon Public Broadcasting, a terrorist within Bundy’s camp actually pulled his little girls, 8 and 9 years of age, out of their school and brought them to the wildlife refuge:

OPB is not naming the kids, nor their parents, to protect the identity of the children, but the mother and father are active and vocal militants in the armed occupation. Both parents have been involved in the incident since its start Jan. 2.

The children were visible inside one of the buildings Thursday evening. One of the little girls asked to come outside by a campfire but was not allowed. The kids were also seen playing and wrestling together in a hallway in their pajamas.

The kids are from out of state and have been at the refuge since early this week. They spend most of their time out of sight of reporters and visitors.

 

[Howl]

More creepy sovereign citizen crap abounds: 

This explains the process and the repercussions for those who are "indicted" by these citizen juries: 

How Militants May 'Indict' Non-Believers   opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/oregon-burns-bundy-militia-grand-jury-occupation/

The Malheur occupiers have convened one of these common law juries, although I was unclear if the actual jury is made up of occupiers or not.  Some are speculating that Sheriff Ward will be "indicted".  I wouldn't be surprised if Judge Grasty also comes into their sights.  He's not been accommodating to occupier requests to hold public meetings in county venues.   Also, if you ask someone about what a common law jury is up to, YOU'RE INDICTED. 

Armed Occupiers Convene Common Law Grand Jury Against Local Officials    opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/oregon-occupiers-common-law-grand-ju

Apparently one harassment tactic against those who have been indicted by these common law juries is to place a lien on their property and other distressing stuff.   

If you want to get a serious taste of the crazy, check out Judge Anna's letter to Sheriff Ward and all other sheriffs. Judge Anna is kinda like Judge Judy, if Judge Judy were a full on raving lunatic sending histrionic dispatches from an insane asylum while pretending to be an astute scholar of American History, the Civil War, the American Constitution, the Magna Carta, Common Law, estate law AND MORE, and was self appointed.   Judge Anna's interpretation means we are all fatherless foundlings in our own country and Sheriff Ward is a foreign agent (or something). 

csctalkradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/An-Open-Letter-to-Sheriff-Ward-of-Harney-County-Oregon-and-to-All-County-Sheriffs-in-America-from-Judge-Anna.pdf

If you click that link,  notify FJ that Special Ops Rescue Ferrets may need to be scrambled or at least put on Full Red Alert.   Otherwise, have strong liquor or a bracing pot of hot tea at hand depending on time of day (or, hell, just pour them in together), and truffles or bon bons regardless.  

 

 

 

 

[bea]

My husband was once in Chancery Court opening a Estate for a client, and someone disputing a Will declared themselves a self representing sovereign citizen. He told me that everyone, including the bailiff, just put their head down and groaned.

[Howl]

1 hour ago, bea said:

My husband was once in Chancery Court opening an Estate for a client, and someone disputing a Will declared themselves a self representing sovereign citizen. He told me that everyone, including the bailiff, just put their head down and groaned.

After reading Judge Anna, I can only imagine any real court proceeding dealing with a self representing sovereign citizen would turn into the La Brea Tar Pits of law (www.tarpits.org/).  

Also, this just chafes my chaps.  From Oregon Public Broadcasting; 

Quote

A Harney County community meeting scheduled for Monday, Jan. 25 has been canceled citing a public safety issue....The meeting was to be held at the Harney County Senior Center.  
Preparations by militants to protest and block the entrance to the senior center led Grasty to cancel the meeting to ensure the safety of the community, he said in a statement.  “Further, I will not give these agitators what they want most, which is attention,” Grasty said.

The  school gymnasium used for the previous meeting was no longer available;  too many attendees at that meeting were carrying guns.  Yup, Oregon is an open carry state as long as you have a Concealed Handgun License.  

These guys are starting to really show their thuggish side.  It's apparent that they are irrelevant without continuing media attention, including a community platform to present their case*.  I really hope Judge Grasty survives this whole episode, since he's a clear roadblock in their plans. 

*can there be anything worse than un-elected, entitled sovereign citizen patriot asshat thugs mansplaining why they taking our land for their own purposes without due process because they don't believe in any legitimate form of government but their own +  need more money? 

True that secretly these square jawed guys in Carhartts, Wranglers, flannel and super masculine, photogenic cowboy hats probably feature in torrid fantasies of more than a few  gay men and maybe some women, but really enough is enough.  

 

[Howl]

One more thing and I'm outta here for the day: 

And if ya wanna know why LaVoy Finicum is a holy crap, scary, scary guy, and why this has a reasonable chance of ending up a bloody mess if the Feds don't tread very carefully, read buzzfeed's recap of his bloody post-apocalyptic novel, Only by Blood and Suffering: Regaining Lost Freedom.    

buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/oregon-militia-members-post-apocalyptic-book-bears-striking#.kdyqemxGZ

[onlyme]

This is what I love about FreeJinger. I certainly don't have time to dive this deep and dig all this up myself but all the info pooling here is wonderful. 

Now, here's something I'm thinking about. We constantly glorify the Revolutionary war. Maybe we should rethink how we teach that. It seems like a lot of these groups tap into the Patrick Henry speech. 

“Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!” 
― Patrick Henry

[CTRLZero]

4 hours ago, bea said:

someone disputing a Will declared themselves a self representing sovereign citizen. He told me that everyone, including the bailiff, just put their head down and groaned.

Just about anyone who has worked in government for any length of time has seen their massive, nonsensical, internet-generated, pleadings.  Of course, if you ask the "sovereign citizen"  to explain any of the particulars, they don't understand and certainly can't articulate their own point of view.  It's basically "government bad, me good, gimme what I want." 

[TurtleBelly]

On 1/25/2016 at 7:12 AM, Howl said:

One more thing and I'm outta here for the day: 

Rural Oregonian here. I listen to a lot of NPR, and I agree that Oregon Public Broadcasting has been doing an admirable job with different angles, interviews, etc. 

It's a very frustrating situation. I agree with the people who want the Feds to do more to end this. I had been hoping, like many others, that the FBI had a grand plan, or that they'd shut off power and blockade the roads soon, etc. I had hoped that since they weren't doing much, that they had a good reason for doing so. Then I heard Governor Kate Brown's address to the White House and FBI (or courts?) to do something, and then I was worried that maybe there isn't a great plan after all? Wouldn't the governor know if something was happening? Hopefully those who are saying that the government just doesn't want to feed the occupiers' appetite for media coverage are right, and that they are enjoying the spectacle of them wracking up more charges before they prosecute. 

The most interesting aspect, imo, was this from Monday: 

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/oregon-militia-meet-the-women-of-the-occupied-refuge/

Some interesting points, to me: 

• Women are saying they felt "called by God" to join the occupation. Some with their men, some without, some leaving children behind, some bringing their children with them (2 young daughters of a couple of militants are now there).
• One woman, in the audio portion, says that she had to check with her husband first. He's the leader in the house due to their "Biblical principals," but he said that if God was calling her to go, then she could go.
• The women are doing the "wimminz  work," of course. They're the ones doing the laundry, peeling the potatoes, and vacuuming the bunkhouse twice per day.
  • One woman said: “ 'They need women here. These guys go out there and sit in this cold, in two degrees. They’re out there protecting me,' said Melissa Cooper, a former warehouse worker and mother of three from Arizona. She’s here with husband Blaine Cooper, who is often at militia leader Ammon Bundy’s side in camouflage fatigues."
  • Then, there's this: "Many of the initial crew of women began drifting away by the end of week three, leaving Bass, Cooper and another woman who goes by “Mama Bear” to cook for a crowd of male militants that seems to increase daily. Where there were at first fewer than 20 militants at the refuge, there now seems to be closer to 50. Cooper and Bass look increasingly fatigued...

    [On believing in their cause, yet still hoping for peaceful outcome]...Still, she wishes she could convince the men leaders to get together and talk, calmly.

    'But I’m a nobody,' she said. She said she will stay at the refuge as a cook, 'for as long as it takes. We women, we are helpers,' said Bass. 'That’s how we are created, and that’s what we do here.' "

Yep, created to get dragged into the mess by these yahoos. Ugh. And the connection to Patriarchy grows. 

[TurtleBelly]

As I was writing the above, it appears there was finally some action. Ammon Bundy may actually be under arrest along with some others.

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/lockdown-harney-county/

 

Quote

UPDATE: (6:57 P.M.) The FBI and Oregon State Police report Ammon Bundy, Ryan C. Bundy, Brian Cavalier, Shawna Cox and Ryan Waylen Payne were all arrested. 

Officials also said there was one fatality and one person suffered non-life threatening injuries and was transferred to a local hospital. 

The arrests took place around 4:30 p.m. Shots were fired during the probable cause arrest along US 395. 

Law enforcement said no additional information will be released at this time about the deceased person. 

In a separate event in Burns, Oregon State Police arrested Joseph Donald O’Shaughnessy, 45, of Cottonwood, Arizona. They did not give details about the nature of the arrest. 

Burns, OR hospital on lockdown. Wonder what that means - who's there, injured?

[Howl]

@TurtleBelly, I always thought this topic should have been in the regular snark section because it is, at its core, about Ammon Bundy and LaVoy Finicum's Mormon offshoot beliefs.  Several of the principal players, as well as the people you mentioned, felt called by God, which is a whole different level of commitment than being deeply attached to the constitution and guns.

It's sad that, among the eleventy men there spitting, scratching, and trying to look militia-y, but basically doing squat all day, nobody can be bothered to lift a hand to help in cooking and cleaning.  Because, as they say, the army marches on its stomach.   

On a slightly different note, I was skulking around the Oath Keepers site again and noticed that some of those commenting about the Bundy/Malheur occupation do not support it and imply that it is damaging to the cause (whatever that is). 

[47of74]

The Blue Tarp Man was the one who was reportedly shot and killed...

rawstory.com/2016/01/lavoy-finicum-the-oregon-militant-beaneath-the-blue-tarp-killed-in-police-shootout-reports/

Quote

LaVoy Finicum — the Oregon militant who gained fame for conducting a television interview from beneath a blue tarp — has reportedly been shot and killed by law enforcement officers.

He was reportedly shot Tuesday evening during a shootout when law enforcement officers stopped a group of militants on their way to establish a shadow government in nearby Grant County.

State Rep. Michele Fiore (R-Nevada), who is close to the Bundy family and other militants, has identified Finicum as the militant who has been reportedly killed.

.

 

[PraiseDog]

It's sad for anyone to die for such a pile of nonsense, but when I heard this I was kind of hoping for it to be the Dildo Guy.  His "Daddy swore a Oath" video was just so douchey. 

[nana sew dear]

50 miles of highway 395 were shut down tonight after there was shooting at a traffic stop.  Angry paranoid man, LaVoy Finicum was killed in the incident,  Ryan Bundy is said to be wounded.

My DH works for the state govt.  here and we started getting calls as soon as he walked through the door.  It is his job to advise people that roads are closed and to update the TripCheck web site.  We live about 160 miles from Burns.

There was a live stream from Harney county by Pete something, militia sympathizer.  He has been arrested.  The comments on the stream are of the ilk that the world is ending, the govt. is coming to get you, everyone but they are going to hell, and the illuminati is beginning New World Order.  Anyone who doesn't agree is a troll.  They love their constitution but ignore the first amendment, Oh, and the president is a Muslim.

So much fun!

 

[nana sew dear]

I think the main issue with the Hammonds was that they had been sentenced to, and had served prison time and had been released. Then a federal judge decided that they hadn't served long enough and wanted them back in prison.  I think a smart attorney could have made a deal for them.  They didn't ask for an armed stand off and turned themselves in peacefully.

Now they are saying that Finicum is a martyr.  They say he was on his knees with his hads on his head when they shot him three times,  I call BS.

[mamallama]

I wonder how many of the people commenting have said that young black men shot by police should have just obeyed the law.

[Howl]

I find this unbearably sad in so many ways,  and hope that is the last loss of human life over this craziness.   The sad part of this is that LaVoy Finicum's wife is a widow and 11 kids have lost their dad, but it was his choice to follow this path.  I have no doubt that he pulled a weapon during this traffic stop.  I'm just amazed that more people weren't killed or injured (I think one occupier was injured). 

Cliven Bundy has blood on his hands, as far as I'm concerned.

Quote

Jon Eric Ritzheimer, 32, was arrested by the FBI in Arizona Tuesday night on a federal charge related to the Malheur Refuge occupation.  The FBI announced that Ritzheimer turned himself into the Peoria, Arizona, police department without incident.

Ritzheimer, like the other occupants arrested in Oregon Tuesday night, face one federal felony charge of conspiracy to impede officers of the United States from discharging their official duties through the use of force, intimidation, or threats, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 372.

 Oregon Public Broadcasting is saying that "A handful of militants remain inside"  so it sounds as though most occupiers have left.

Not much news coverage on national media.  They just flashed everyone's booking photo from last night on Good Morning America.

Pete Santilli is a con man nincompoop who should be in jail on general principles. 

The sad part of this is, going forward, every uniformed Forest Service and BLM employee in the west will feel like they are walking around with a target on his or her back.   

 

[bashfulpixie]

Hopefully there's video of it all, so that way it isn't a case of his word against theirs.  Because we all know who the batshit among us will believe.

[Howl]

OPB updated a 5 a.m.  that they spoke with Jason Patrick, one of 5 or 6 people remaining inside the refuge.   Also, I'm not sure from the article that there are a total of 5 or 6 people remaining, only that that number met and decided to stay to the death.  As far as anyone knows, there are no children remaining. 

opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/lockdown-harney-county/

If anyone has better sources, please post up with links. 

LE is supposed to be holding a news conference around 10:30 am, and I'm assuming this is West Coast time. 

Oregonlive.com has posted a detailed account of the traffic stop, which involved two vehicles with occupiers inside: 

oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/militant_shot_and_killed_while.html#incart_maj-story-1

ETA:

Rawstory article: Eyewitnesses knock down conspiracy theories about LaVoy Finicum dying with his hands up

rawstory.com/2016/01/eyewitnesses-knock-down-conspiracy-theories-about-lavoy-finicum-dying-with-his-hands-up/

 

[DaisyD]

11 hours ago, 47of74 said:

The Blue Tarp Man was the one who was reportedly shot and killed...

rawstory.com/2016/01/lavoy-finicum-the-oregon-militant-beaneath-the-blue-tarp-killed-in-police-shootout-reports/

He was reportedly shot Tuesday evening during a shootout when law enforcement officers stopped a group of militants on their way to establish a shadow government in nearby Grant County.

I'm a little disturbed, but not in the least surprised, by the number of these yahoos that are from Az. We're not all like that. I promise. 

[doggie]

Let's hope they took their dildoes and lube with them.

[nana sew dear]

There was a man who pulled into a gas station in Burns yesterday afternoon and told the clerk that he was off to kill "Feds and Muslims".  He was drunk and had many loaded weapons.   Service station attendants called the police and the man was arrested.  Thank god we don't have self-serve gas here.  He might have gone unnoticed.

A week or so ago the Grant county sheriff called these militia men patriots.   My guess is that he was going to be part of the meeting in John Day.  The crazies are now saying that he was an FBI informant that lured these "patriots" into a trap.  I don't think so but would be happy if he was recalled.

It's quiet this morning.  It sounds to me like Finicum was a half decent man who was lured in with Bundy propaganda.  Would love to see that family act in prison for a long time.