Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge

[Howl]

David Fry (one of the remaining four occupiers) has posted that it feels like a zombie apocalypse at the Refuge, which seems accurate.   I think the feds will sneak in while everybody is sleeping in after a hard night of smoking pot and snacking.....and it will be a done deal, especially since it seems that food may be running low. 

Supposedly, there will be a yuuuuuge protest with patriots gathering in Burns on Monday.  I feel so sad for this community.  They never could have imagined a January that would tear their town apart. 

 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

15 minutes ago, Howl said:

Supposedly, there will be a yuuuuuge protest with patriots gathering in Burns on Monday.  I feel so sad for this community.  They never could have imagined a January that would tear their town apart. 

All of 30 people showed up on Friday.  

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Couldn't even get to the end of this article.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/killing-of-an-oregon-wildlife-refuge-occupier-has-re-energized-protesters/2016/01/30/1dca4cd6-c6fb-11e5-8965-0607e0e265ce_story.html

SERIOUSLY?!  Are there really that many people who are devoid of common sense?!

Eleventy !!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!!

[AmazonGrace]

Quote

One person he interviewed was Susy Pearce, a rancher who drove 6  1/2hours from Jefferson, Calif., for a Jan. 2 protest in Burns about the jailing of two ranchers on federal arson charges, which led to the takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. Pearce has not left town since.

“I’m a rancher, and we feel the same way they do about the overreach of the federal government,” said Pearce, wearing a big cowboy hat and a long oilskin coat as the snow fell. “If you’re a rancher, you get taxed, fined, fee-d and over-regulated to death.”

She said she had gotten to know Finicum over the past weeks at the wildlife refuge, and she called him an “amazing man.” She teared up as she talked about a man she called “smart and honest” and his “outrageous, uncalled-for murder.”

Pearce said that she had seen the FBI video of Finicum’s death, and she said that she was suspicious of the intentions of law enforcement.

“I don’t think they intended for any of them to survive,” she said of Finicum and the others in the car, including an 18-year-old girl. “I think he sacrificed himself to save them.”

As if ranchers are the only people who have to pay taxes...

If FBI wanted them all dead they'd all be dead now... How exactly did Lavoy's dead body on the ground protect anyone else from getting shot?

[SpoonfulOSugar]

2 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

As if ranchers are the only people who have to pay taxes...

If FBI wanted them all dead they'd all be dead now... How exactly did Lavoy's dead body on the ground protect anyone else from getting shot?

Plus, you know, that Jeep that had the other leaders in it . . . . 

If they wanted to kill them all, seems like they would have started with the Bundys . . . . 

I'm wondering, since the driver of the Jeep is one who reported on Youtube what happened, if the Jeep group could hear the radio transmissions of the incident.

[AmazonGrace]

They supposedly didn't even arrest the driver of the Jeep. Sure proof that they wanted them all dead...

[SpoonfulOSugar]

9 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

They supposedly didn't even arrest the driver of the Jeep. Sure proof that they wanted them all dead...

They didn't arrest the 18 year old, Victoria Sharp, who was in the white truck either.

Seems like if they wanted them all dead, one of the most logical strategies would be to make sure they were kept quiet for a couple hours while they managed the incident.  I mean, that's basic.

Ditto if they were falsifying things.  Definitely could have sent them all to Gitmo.

 

Also in the WTF column - "We never intended to have an armed standoff."

Yeah, we're carrying loaded weapons, and we're committing crimes, but we thought people would just disregard that and understand our good intentions . . . . . . 

[AmazonGrace]

Quote

"We never intended to have an armed standoff."

I know rite... I hate it when this happens. I just go about my business peacefully not intending to start an armed standoff and then I just suddenly find myself in the middle of one, occupying a federal building and telling people they'll never get me alive.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

4 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

I know rite... I hate it when this happens. I just go about my business peacefully not intending to start an armed standoff and then I just suddenly find myself in the middle of one, occupying a federal building and telling people they'll never get me alive.

U 2?!

I was just talking about The Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, and my right to assemble, and WHAM!  They're I be.  Eating Pop-Tarts and smoking dope.

[Howl]

 

Quote

@SpoonfulOSugar

I'm wondering, since the driver of the Jeep is one who reported on Youtube what happened, if the Jeep group could hear the radio transmissions of the incident.

That makes so much sense.  I couldn't figure out how he was so clear on how things did (and didn't) transpire when he wasn't an eye witness. 

Another aspect of the FBI strategy was to choose a spot with no cell reception. Otherwise the first group that cleared the checkpoint would have alerted the other two groups.  

 

[Howl]

Oregon Public Broadcasting has an article about David Fry, one of the four holdouts.  He seemed to be a bit of a misfit for the larger group, and that was a correct impression.  He's not a terribly sympathetic figure and seems to have some serious problems.  Let me amend that by saying he is an unmitigated freaking train wreck. 

opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/david-fry-lavoy-finicum-malheur-refuge-occupatin-oregon/

I have a sense that LaVoy Finicum might have been the glue holding things together by soothing the more volatile and difficult personalities. 

Early on OPB posted that David Fry hacked into the computers at the refuge to make a Web site for the occupation.

 Militants Use Government Computers To Create Own Website

opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/militants-government-computers-isis-website-malheur/

However, Federal information is encrypted, so that was not accessible. 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

3 minutes ago, Howl said:

I have a sense that LaVoy Finicum might have been the glue holding things together by soothing the more volatile and difficult personalities. 

I don't know if that is true, or just that the traffic stop successfully cut the head off the beast.

Blaine Cooper, who fled, is accused of having decked a guy earlier.

When you don't have a clear purpose and the goal posts move, lots of room exists for conflict.  These are disparate groups - they were never unified.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

@Howl  I did read an OPB article which describes a fond relationship between LaVoy F and David F.  That article did describe LaVoy as a peacekeeper for the group.

THIS:  http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/landowners-inside-fbi-perimeter-were-psychologically-exhausted/ is one of the saddest stories I have read about this whole thing.

Clearly, the way the group reacted on Tuesday night - they had no frickin' clue about their end game.  I would have been totally freaked if they showed up on my property.  (And my husband would not deal well.)

[freehannie]

The videos posted today from the compound are pretty interesting.  They filmed themselves speaking with a negotiator as well as a supporter.  They really seem to believe that the government has no right to charge them with anything.  And they are in the right and the FBI is in the wrong.  From Sean Anderson "Sometimes you need blood from on the tree of freedom from patriots and tyrants".  Yikes.  He also says that we have a duty to overthrow a tyrannical government.  This does not bode well.

After reading the article about David Fry not getting along with the leadership of the occupation, it's pretty clear that Ammon Bundy telling him to leave isn't going to have any effect.  It sounds like Lavoy was the only person he respected.

[Howl]

Ironically (!), these yokels are still there to prevent Sean Anderson's arrest based on an outstanding bench warrant dating to 2014! 

From an earlier article on OregonLive!:

Quote

 

...court records show Anderson has an extensive history of criminal convictions in Wisconsin.

He has an outstanding bench warrant related to an August 2014 arrest. Anderson was charged with resisting an officer, possession of THC and possession of drug paraphernalia, all misdemeanors.

Wisconsin court records show Anderson was convicted of misdemeanor disorderly conduct in 1998, 2008 and 2009. He was convicted of criminal trespassing in 2002.

 

Really, these gullible nincompoops are hanging out and risking their lives to protect a petty criminal with poor impulse control.  

Edited to Add:  I got the information above from this OregonLive! post

oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/five_holdouts_want_charge_drop.html

Scrolling through the comments,  I found some super thoughtful and thought provoking comments.  Scroll down to find the first more lengthy text posted by sa*i*lor19*94 (I'm disguising the poster's name; just remove the asterisks).  There are several more comments worthy of reading about Sovereign Citizens movement and related which you'll find as you scroll down a bit more. 

[Howl]

And an article from OPB about Ruby Ridge, with a quote from Sara Weaver, who survived the Ruby Ridge incident as a teenager and now helps trauma survivors:

The Federal Response To Oregon Occupation May Have Roots In Ruby Ridge

opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/npr-the-federal-response-to-oregon-occupation-may-have-roots-in-ruby-ridge/

[AmazonGrace]

Quote

 

In Fry's live-stream video, Anderson yelled, "They're going to murder all of us," referring to the FBI and other officers who began surrounding the refuge.

"American people better wake up and get here and fight for your country right now, it is on," he said. "If they stop you from getting here, kill them."

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/five_holdouts_want_charge_drop.html

 

if you want your charges dropped, that's exactly how you get your charges dropped... tell people to go kill some LE officers on duty.

Idiot...

[downtherabbithole]

These people have to be idiots to think think they will come out of this with what they want. 

 

[Howl]

49 minutes ago, downtherabbithole said:

These people have to be idiots to think think they will come out of this with what they want. 

 

Yes, they seem kind of pathetic and sad, but unfortunately, sad and pathetic people lacking critical thinking skills who make up for that lack with loaded guns.  

ETA:

Quote

 

OPB spoke with the remaining occupiers inside the refuge Sunday [Jan 31st] by cellphone. They say federal authorities have locked down their ability to make or receive calls.

David Fry, one of the four remaining militants, said the FBI made it so the occupiers can’t make outgoing calls on their cellphones. Fry said he can receive incoming calls, but that the other three in the refuge appear unable to receive calls on their cellphones. The militants also said they’ve lost access to the internet....OPB has reached out to law enforcement for confirmation.

 

 

[Howl]

Interesting detailed deconstruction of the FBI's Finicum shooting video by Bearing Arms: Guns and Patriots -- an analysis by a web site devoted to "patriots"  and ammosexuals in general, but definitely not buying into the assassination scenario posed by many Finicum supporters. 

LaVoy Finicum Was Not Murdered. He Forced Oregon Police To Shoot Him

bearingarms.com/lavoy-finicum-murdered-forced-oregon-police-shoot/

This analysis points out that after stopping at the first road block....

Quote

Finicum accelerates down a short straight section of road faster than he can control into on-coming traffic, almost completely over the centerline. Fortunately, Oregon State Police had already stopped traffic flowing in the other direction, or Finicum very well could have killed a father and daughter in a Jeep who became witnesses to what happened next.

I desperately need those final four jackwagons to LEAVE so I can get a damn life! 

Wonder how many betting pools are underway for how long they're going to last.  At least one person on the interwebs is certain they can't last past Tuesday, which seems reasonable....sleep deprivation, food is gone, generator runs out of gas 

Weather for Monday: high of 37, low in the low 20s, winds around 7mph from the northwest.   Kinda bracing conditions for camping out. 

[Howl]

Wanted to explore the Mormon angle of the occupation a little bit, noticed that LlaVoy's funeral is to be held in Kanab, UT and  was curious where the Finicum ranch is located, so I poked around. Reports are that the ranch is located in northern AZ, close to the Utah border.   LaVoy Finicum's Web site, One Cowboy's Stand for Freedom, lists a P.O. Box in Cane Beds, AZ.  Cane Beds, AZ is about a 10 minute drive from the twin towns of Colorado City, AZ and Hildale,  UT;   yup,  the home of Warren Jeff's FLDS .  

I'm not implying that the Finicums are FLDS, but just supplying a little context on exactly how Mormon this general area is.  The Finicums have 11 kids.  Shawna Cox, the woman who was riding in Finicum's white truck and who was arrested at the road block, is the mother of 12 and hails from Kanab, UT, about a 40 minute drive from Cane Beds.  If you're familiar with this type of big, open country, driving to Kanab would be like going to the grocery around the corner in a city.  

 I know LDS families tend to be larger than the average American family of from 1-3 kids,  but not THAT large.  I'm just wondering if that area of southern Utah tends to host a very fundamental subset of Mormonism than is practiced by mainstream Mormons,  with very large families being typical, along with more extreme beliefs.  

A look at City-Data.com, shows that there are under 500 people living in Cane Beds, AZ, with the median age of 15 (!), and males drastically outnumbering females (286 to 152, what's up with that?).  When you have a population of just under 500 and a median age of 15, that's a lot of kids.  Could be the large number of young males represents Lost Boys kicked out of FLDS.  Which might be the  tie-in with the Finicum's being therapeutic foster parents -- perhaps their focus was Lost Boys with serious issues, in which case they might have been an extremely good fit for those kids:  large stable family, fundamental Mormon but not polygamous, close to home with lots of horses.  

There is also an Indian reservation close by that I'm not familiar with, but often there are issues with drug abuse and generational alcoholism, which could be another source of foster children. 

Don't know how his wife will carry on if there is no source of income from foster children.  She'll owe the BLM a ton of money in fines and they've effectively burned bridges for their grazing allotment. 

There will likely be a wrongful death lawsuit, but who knows how that could turn out or how long it would be for money to be coming in if they win it.  I'm sure there will be go fund me accts set up for her as the widow of a martyr for the cause. 

Post up if you're familiar with this area along the UT/AZ strip. 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

It's time for the federal government to shut Daddy down, too.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/bundy-clan-leader-unrepentant-even-as-oregon-protest-collapses/2016/01/30/842a4750-c6c5-11e5-8965-0607e0e265ce_story.html

** I'm confused.  I thought the judge had ordered no one released until the occupiers were gone, but multiple sources say Shawna Cox is out.  

@Howl  Thanks for the analysis of their origins.  I had wondered about an FLDS connection but had never heard of one.  You're right, that area does seem to have very conservative to fundamentalist leanings.

[DaisyD]

The lost boys angle makes sense to me too. I could see people "fostering" lost boys for the money and to have free ranch hands. The tribe on the Kiabab reservation is Paiute. The population data of Cane Beds states that over 70% are white and only 2% are native. It also says that the largest percentage of the population is 9 and under. That seems like maybe some of the flds apostates have moved there.

[AmazonGrace]

It’s pretty amazing — when a 12-year-old with a toy gun is shot within two seconds of cops arriving on scene, it makes sense that the police feared for their lives, because he looked like a thug. But after a guy who vowed he’d never be taken alive drives away from a traffic stop where he’s been told to surrender, is chased by cops, swerves around a roadblock and nearly hits another cop, then reaches for a loaded gun, the cops just might have been trigger-happy.

The real question, of course, is how Barack Obama is responsible for this.

Read more at http://wonkette.com/598285/fbi-video-conclusively-shows-oregon-militia-guy-shot-dead-by-cops-was-not-unarmed-black-teen#i0eKcCq3jBo0JhBx.99

[Howl]

OK, my bet with myself is that on Tuesday (tomorrow) at 10:52 am Oregon time, they Final Four will bail.