Jill Duggar Dillard Part 9: They slosh through the rain.

[Valerie3kids]

I am really disturbed by the entire Derrick/Jill situation. They seem to be tourists taking a lovely vacation and still grifting for funds from others. Derrick did not seem the least bit interested in anything going on in the orphanage and seemed close to losing his temper with so many children wanting something from him all at one time. The biggest thing going on in their lives is the fact that it rains!! Jill is passing herself off as someone who has medical knowledge and who can be of help and that is beyond scary to me. Why don't they just do what they really want and come home? They are not making much of an effort to assimilate themselves into the community especially Jill. She seems so lost and so out of place. They both seem a bit detached from Izzy. Derrick carrying him like the "Latinos" do? WTH? Why was that even said? Are they all that out of touch with society that they do not think twice before both speaking and posting pictures. Izzy looks beyond unhappy in his strait jacket and WHY would you take a picture of that? Of the two new mothers, I actually thought Jill would be more caring and I think I got that completely wrong. Jessa seems to show a lot of love in her eyes for Spurge and Jill seems to act as if Izzy is some type of toy. She can't get anything done such as Spanish lessons due to Izzy and I find that to be garbage as we all know many people who have continued their education while having young children.

Sorry, need to get off my soapbox.

[SassyPants]

Make life easier for the parents, so that they can create MORE children. So illogical. 

[notfundy]

It makes me SO RAGEY to see this stuff about Izzy, particularly because my little granddaughter is about the same age (born March 26th)  Oh, have I mentioned her before?  Only 100 times?  Sorry.

ANYWAY.. thanks to @halcionne for answering the question about when the pics were taken; I finally did locate them on that mess of a blog (Dillard Family) but couldn't quite figure out to get the date/location.  I know how to do that on most pictures, just didn't try hard enough I guess.  And I confess I have these saved also on my personal wayback hard drive!  

So he is 7-8 months old.  JESUS CHRIST that is way too old for swaddling especially since he looks distressed.  I think we have one picture of our grandbaby crying like that - when she didn't like mommy changing her into her daytime clothes - - and my daughter doesn't even like LOOKING at that picture and certainly would never post it without context on public media.  

Grandbaby Notfundy was teething this week; only wanted to sleep "on" mommy or daddy during the day (in an Ergo, parent-facing, thank you very much) and so that's what they did.  Because sometimes you DO accomodate the needs of your baby when they are still little.  Not that having a routine and sleeping in their own space aren't good for kids - they are - but this business of scheduling kids, wrapping them up, keeping them on blankets - just drives me crazy.  

So who knows what they think they're doing, but I shudder to think that Michelle Duggar is most certainly the model for Jill's child rearing practices.  Of course Jill wouldn't know some of her mom's practices are screwy since she doesn't expose herself to anything outside of her fundy-Duggar bubble.   I do wonder what Miss Cathy thinks.  

Maybe we care more than Izzy's parents.

[EmmieJ]

I feel sorry for poor Israel, stuck with these two idiots as parents.  Those swaddling photos are upsetting to me.  Every baby is different.  In my son's case, I swaddled him several times when he was a newborn but he quickly grew out of that phase.  If he had ever started crying while swaddled, I would have unwrapped him and tried to figure out how to sooth him - not take pictures of him!  What kind of person does that - not once, but at least twice and at different times?  It makes very very concerned that Jill and/or Derick seem to take some pleasure from photographing their baby while he is in obvious distress.  Shades of Michelle filming that poor boy who fell into an orchestra pit.  I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

I remember reading a post where it talked about Cathy crying (or tearing up) as she prepared to return home from "Central America."  Maybe she was crying because she knew she was leaving Izzy alone with these two cold-hearted parents.

I've always gotten the vibe that Jill sees Israel more as a prop, and she seems quite eager to hand him off to anyone else rather than hold and snuggle him herself.  I think she's ready for that phase in life where she and Derick walk hand-in-clinging-hand ahead of their brood of kids, just like DimBulb and Meeechelle did.  She is her mother's daughter, that's for sure.  And Derick seems to go along with this shit, so he's just as bad.

[Valerie3kids]

6 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

I feel sorry for poor Israel, stuck with these two idiots as parents.  Those swaddling photos are upsetting to me.  Every baby is different.  In my son's case, I swaddled him several times when he was a newborn but he quickly grew out of that phase.  If he had ever started crying while swaddled, I would have unwrapped him and tried to figure out how to sooth him - not take pictures of him!  What kind of person does that - not once, but at least twice and at different times?  It makes very very concerned that Jill and/or Derick seem to take some pleasure from photographing their baby while he is in obvious distress.  Shades of Michelle filming that poor boy who fell into an orchestra pit.  I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

I remember reading a post where it talked about Cathy crying (or tearing up) as she prepared to return home from "Central America."  Maybe she was crying because she knew she was leaving Izzy alone with these two cold-hearted parents.

I've always gotten the vibe that Jill sees Israel more as a prop, and she seems quite eager to hand him off to anyone else rather than hold and snuggle him herself.  I think she's ready for that phase in life where she and Derick walk hand-in-clinging-hand ahead of their brood of kids, just like DimBulb and Meeechelle did.  She is her mother's daughter, that's for sure.  And Derick seems to go along with this shit, so he's just as bad.

A prop. That is a good term for it. I really thought Derrick would be a little more caring as his mother seems to be. But, he is not. He bounces the child around like he is monkey or something. They both seem very eager to pass him off to anyone who will hold him as long as they don't have to be doing it. I noticed Derrick made a note of telling us he takes care of Izzy while Jill cooks dinner. WOW! Well, aren't you special? I just do not seem to be able to find much attachment that most parents have for their children.

Maybe that is why Jill is so eager to come home. She knows she would have uber help with Izzy and she can spend all her time clinging to Derrick. I don't think Jill realized that a baby would alter some of her clinging/kissing time with Derrick.

[ClaraOswin]

49 minutes ago, Valerie3kids said:

I am really disturbed by the entire Derrick/Jill situation. They seem to be tourists taking a lovely vacation and still grifting for funds from others. Derrick did not seem the least bit interested in anything going on in the orphanage and seemed close to losing his temper with so many children wanting something from him all at one time. The biggest thing going on in their lives is the fact that it rains!! Jill is passing herself off as someone who has medical knowledge and who can be of help and that is beyond scary to me. Why don't they just do what they really want and come home? They are not making much of an effort to assimilate themselves into the community especially Jill. She seems so lost and so out of place. They both seem a bit detached from Izzy. Derrick carrying him like the "Latinos" do? WTH? Why was that even said? Are they all that out of touch with society that they do not think twice before both speaking and posting pictures. Izzy looks beyond unhappy in his strait jacket and WHY would you take a picture of that? Of the two new mothers, I actually thought Jill would be more caring and I think I got that completely wrong. Jessa seems to show a lot of love in her eyes for Spurge and Jill seems to act as if Izzy is some type of toy. She can't get anything done such as Spanish lessons due to Izzy and I find that to be garbage as we all know many people who have continued their education while having young children.

Sorry, need to get off my soapbox.

I also thought Jill would be the more caring mother of the two. That doesn't seem to be the case, at least based on photos/video/t.v. specials. I find it a bit odd that we never see any photos of Jill cuddling/snuggling with Izzy. I swear they don't even hold him in an affectionate way. It's so odd to me. Derick puts him over his shoulder like a sack of potatoes it seems. And Jill just puts him in a crotch dangler. I would think by now there would be more photos of them holding him like regular parents. But apparently not. 

I will say...I do have plenty of photos of my kid crying. But it's not when he's in actual distress or something. I just put those photos of him up occasionally to show what real life is like. He is 2 and he throws fits. And sometimes, his pissed off face is just too cute.

[Bad Wolf]

If the swaddling is for sleep training, then why would he be on their bed? Also, who posts pictures of training with no explanation? Looks cruel to me. Are we going to have pictures of him potty training later on? Have some respect for your child.

[nastyhobbitses]

Echoing a lot of people and saying that I really had high hopes for Jill as a mother. She seemed very naturally caring and seemed to really be in her element with lots of kids around. I think she thinks of Israel like a little brother more than her own son; remember that while she was caring for her brothers and sisters from a young age, she likely saw the whole thing as a fun game, and since she had other sister-slaves and her mother (when so inclined) to pick up the slack, she likely was never truly overwhelmed. Throw that in with the fact that her model for parenting is to pump out child after child and then let other people around you handle them while you bang your husband all day long. She grew up seeing children as toys when they behave, and inconveniences/embarrassments when they didn't behave. Maybe we should start an e-begging fund for the therapy Israel's inevitably going to need.

[Four is Enough]

While I disagree with the swaddling because of Izzy's clear discomfort and anger, I will say that I have taken pictures of ALL of my children crying. I usually did it when they were older, more toddler-y, and were resisting me and thinking if they cried, I'd relent whatever I was keeping from them. When I pulled out the camera, they'd get so angry! There are angry crying kid photos in each of the Four's albums. 

Seeing Izzy, so uncomfortable and not understanding why he was trussed up like that, made ME angry and want to cry.

[notfundy]

@Four is Enough  Oh, but that's so different.  Those toddler pix (and I'll bet most of us have them!) of a little guy or girl stomping their feet and getting SO mad . .  those are different.  

In fact, one of my friends just posted a cute/funny picture of her little grandson (age 2 and a half) crying and pouting in the snow, - sitting right down in the middle of the sidewalk -  because he wanted a tricycle that was not his.   He WANTED that tricycle!  

So different from a distressed infant.  

[MatthewDuggar]

48 minutes ago, Valerie3kids said:

A prop. That is a good term for it. I really thought Derrick would be a little more caring as his mother seems to be. But, he is not. He bounces the child around like he is monkey or something. 

And then we have him and Bin bench-pressing Izzy in the specials.  Yes, that's funny for a bit, but a "prop" it definitely a good term.

[anjulibai]

Is it possible that Jill developed some attachment issues because of Izzy's complicated birth? Like, the difficulty of the birth and the recovery made it hard for her to develop a proper attachment in those critical first few days? Especially when she likely had a lot of grand ideas about how wonderful the birth was going to be? I've heard of women have issues like this. 

[EmmieJ]

1 minute ago, anjulibai said:

Is it possible that Jill developed some attachment issues because of Izzy's complicated birth? Like, the difficulty of the birth and the recovery made it hard for her to develop a proper attachment in those critical first few days? Especially when she likely had a lot of grand ideas about how wonderful the birth was going to be? I've heard of women have issues like this. 

I have no idea, but you would think given time, she would have become more attached to her own firstborn child.  He seems like a cutie pie.  Maybe it would be better for Israel if his parents gave up their mission-cation and came back to the Duggar compound.  At least there, he'd have his aunts and uncles to play with him, carry him around and show him some simple affection.  From what I've seen so far, Jill is not well equipped to handle even one baby on her own, not working, not taking classes, just sitting around the house waiting for Derick to come home. 

Jill - I have news for you - this is about as easy as it gets.  One child, you don't work outside the home, your toddler doesn't appear to have any developmental issues and is generally active and happy.  If you can't handle this, or still don't feel the natural love and affection most parents have for their children, don't have any more kids and definitely don't adopt any.  Some people don't make good parents.  It's best to acknowledge this and just stop before you bring more children into the world.

[SportsgalAnnie]

Dang yall are nice, only saying crying pictures. My parents were worse....they took video.... lol 

[ClaraOswin]

I have crying videos too. Mostly just 15 second clips on Instagram though.

I even have crying newborn photos. Of course, they were all taken on my phone while my son was in the crook of my arm. He cried for hours and nothing helped. Pretty much all of the pictures from the beginning are him crying (while held) or sleeping (while held.) It was a rough time.

[EmCatlyn]

RE: The swaddling pictures

I didn't think this was ordinary swaddling like you do to help a kid sleep.  This kid is wearing shoes in one picture, isn't he?

I am guessing that he may have been "overexcited" and they swaddled him to "settle him down."  I had a very high-energy (ADHD and OD among other things) toddler, and one way I dealt with his tantrums was by wrapping myself around him in a loving but firm embrace.  I would rock him and say soothing things until the worst of the tantrum passed.  (This was not something that I did for all tantrums, only the ones that were clearly connected to his having reached nap time and needing to reboot.)

One time in a public place (Disneyworld), when tantruming son was almost 2, someone came up to me and helpfully suggested swaddling in a beach towel as something they still did when their slightly older child lost control. (I didn't follow the advice.)  So it is something some people do (or did 20 years ago--and the Duggars live in a time warp for everything except social media).  

It seems to me that this sort of swaddling may be part of the Duggar way.  Especially if they stopped blanket training with the younger kids, this may have been a method to settle the kids down that Jill learned from Michelle. In which case the picture would not seem odd to them at all.  It may have been posted because they are thinking, "isn't he cute even when he cries, our little son the striped taco!" 

Not that it isn't weird, just Duggarly.

[SassyPants]

44 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Is it possible that Jill developed some attachment issues because of Izzy's complicated birth? Like, the difficulty of the birth and the recovery made it hard for her to develop a proper attachment in those critical first few days? Especially when she likely had a lot of grand ideas about how wonderful the birth was going to be? I've heard of women have issues like this. 

I just remember those early pictures, for example, when they went to church and Jill really looked checked out. Couple that with the comment of "Derick, are you going to get the baby out of the car"? I am with everyone else, I was expecting a much more engaged, high energy mothering effort out of our little JillMuffin. Maybe she has mothering burnout? Maybe she was disappointed to have a boy vs a girl?

I also agree that they should slow the reproduction train the hell down.

I'd hate for her to be another person who only cares about the NEXT baby. 

 

[EmCatlyn]

42 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

I have no idea, but you would think given time, she would have become more attached to her own firstborn child.  He seems like a cutie pie.  Maybe it would be better for Israel if his parents gave up their mission-cation and came back to the Duggar compound.  At least there, he'd have his aunts and uncles to play with him, carry him around and show him some simple affection.  From what I've seen so far, Jill is not well equipped to handle even one baby on her own, not working, not taking classes, just sitting around the house waiting for Derick to come home. 

Jill - I have news for you - this is about as easy as it gets.  One child, you don't work outside the home, your toddler doesn't appear to have any developmental issues and is generally active and happy.  If you can't handle this, or still don't feel the natural love and affection most parents have for their children, don't have any more kids and definitely don't adopt any.  Some people don't make good parents.  It's best to acknowledge this and just stop before you bring more children into the world.

Has anyone considered that Jill  may be suffering emotionally from a combination of the difficult birth, the molestation scandal, the loss of the show, etc. and culminating in what she saw as a personal betrayal by Josh? (Josh had been forgiven and defended under the assumption that he'd turned over a new leaf--and he had lied, betraying the trust of the whole family.  As Jana suggested, whom can you trust?)  Clearly also, leaving her family and her familiar universe, though something she sought in the wake of the molestation scandal, may also be traumatic for someone who has no experience being alone.

From what everyone has said in the past, Jill was a good sister-mom.  And it is generally thought that the older Duggar girls did the bulk of the housework at the TTH.  So why is she coming across as a mini-Michelle?  Is it just that Michelle is her mothering model or that (like Michelle?) she finds herself in a place where she has to turn off some range of her emotions to keep going and "stay sweet."

My point in mentioning this is to suggest that there may be hope that as Jill comes to terms with her new life and gets over the emotions stirred up by the scandals, she will be as good a mom as she was a sister-mom.  Of course it would be better if she got some counseling and would stop trying to play Missionary Midwife and Example to the World of Duggar Holiness.

[anjulibai]

1 hour ago, EmmieJ said:

I have no idea, but you would think given time, she would have become more attached to her own firstborn child.  He seems like a cutie pie.  Maybe it would be better for Israel if his parents gave up their mission-cation and came back to the Duggar compound.  At least there, he'd have his aunts and uncles to play with him, carry him around and show him some simple affection.  From what I've seen so far, Jill is not well equipped to handle even one baby on her own, not working, not taking classes, just sitting around the house waiting for Derick to come home. 

Jill - I have news for you - this is about as easy as it gets.  One child, you don't work outside the home, your toddler doesn't appear to have any developmental issues and is generally active and happy.  If you can't handle this, or still don't feel the natural love and affection most parents have for their children, don't have any more kids and definitely don't adopt any.  Some people don't make good parents.  It's best to acknowledge this and just stop before you bring more children into the world.

Maybe, but it depends. Jill may well have also experience PPD. Plus the fallout from Josh's scandles likely had their toll. Lord knows what trauma that brought up.

I keep thinking about my mom's relationship with her own mother, and how various trauma's that occurred around my mom's birth might have affected Gramma. Not long before she gave birth, my grandma found out my grandfather had fathered another child with another woman, born about 5 months before my mom (and my mom was their third child together). Then my great-grandmother was dying of cancer and refusing to get treatment - she died a month after my mom was born. My gramma was extremely close to her mother and relied on her when she was recovering from her previous two childbirths. So, after all that in such a short period, I don't think my gramma was able to bond with my mother. My mom was always the least favored child, out of the 9 my gramma had, and I really think it's because of those trauma's my gramma experienced. 

So it's possible Jill's experences over the last year have inhibited her ability to really connect with Israel. 

21 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I just remember those early pictures, for example, when they went to church and Jill really looked checked out. Couple that with the comment of "Derick, are you going to get the baby out of the car"? I am with everyone else, I was expecting a much more engaged, high energy mothering effort out of our little JillMuffin. Maybe she has mothering burnout? Maybe she was disappointed to have a boy vs a girl?

I also agree that they should slow the reproduction train the hell down.

I'd hate for her to be another person who only cares about the NEXT baby. 

 

Yeah, except that's sadly all she knows. Her mother is the poster parent for only caring about the NEXT baby. 

[apandaaries]

This might be under discussion elsewhere, but @halcionne, did you see that you are a source here? http://www.inquisitr.com/2670859/jill-duggar-dillard-volunteered-at-clinic-founded-by-planned-parenthood-in-jill-jessa-counting-on-finale/

[halcionne]

I think it's worth remembering that we only see a small fraction of their lives, and much of it is staged. We don't have enough information to say Jill hasn't bonded with Israel, or that she hands him off to someone else at every opportunity. Lots of members, including me, see pictures or footage and assign all kinds of meaning to what we're looking at, based on what we think we know of the Duggars' lives, but the reality is that we know very little.

I can't believe I'm defending them. @Mama Mia, @singsingsing, and other posters used to issue this sort of reminder from time to time, and I haven't seen Mama Mia around much. I'm not sure if sing comes into QFOD lately.

10 minutes ago, amandaaries said:

This might be under discussion elsewhere, but @halcionne, did you see that you are a source here? http://www.inquisitr.com/2670859/jill-duggar-dillard-volunteered-at-clinic-founded-by-planned-parenthood-in-jill-jessa-counting-on-finale/

Hahahaha that makes me feel way more special than it should. 

I'm glad Treva Bowdoin wrote the article in such a way that Manos Abiertas (hopefully) doesn't get any blowback.

[RootBeerFloat]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

RE: The swaddling pictures

I didn't think this was ordinary swaddling like you do to help a kid sleep.  This kid is wearing shoes in one picture, isn't he?

I am guessing that he may have been "overexcited" and they swaddled him to "settle him down."  I had a very high-energy (ADHD and OD among other things) toddler, and one way I dealt with his tantrums was by wrapping myself around him in a loving but firm embrace.  I would rock him and say soothing things until the worst of the tantrum passed.  (This was not something that I did for all tantrums, only the ones that were clearly connected to his having reached nap time and needing to reboot.)

One time in a public place (Disneyworld), when tantruming son was almost 2, someone came up to me and helpfully suggested swaddling in a beach towel as something they still did when their slightly older child lost control. (I didn't follow the advice.)  So it is something some people do (or did 20 years ago--and the Duggars live in a time warp for everything except social media).  

It seems to me that this sort of swaddling may be part of the Duggar way.  Especially if they stopped blanket training with the younger kids, this may have been a method to settle the kids down that Jill learned from Michelle. In which case the picture would not seem odd to them at all.  It may have been posted because they are thinking, "isn't he cute even when he cries, our little son the striped taco!" 

Not that it isn't weird, just Duggarly.

That's sometimes called "cocooning" and can help an overstimulated child. Sensory seeking kids (not necessarily with autism, but sometimes) can be comforted by being bundled up like that. They make special, lightweight super spandex-y cocoons for kids. Some like a weighted blanket. All are used under supervision, usually recommended by an OT or similar. Some kids just like a good bear hug.  Of course other kids would freak out at the sensory stimulation of being wrapped up in such a manner. If it's not used to calm the child and is used to punish him, that's horrible! (Not talking about kids who must be restrained for safety.) I don't know if that's what Jilly Muffin is doing or if she's just a dumbass. 

[lascuba]

2 hours ago, anjulibai said:

Is it possible that Jill developed some attachment issues because of Izzy's complicated birth? Like, the difficulty of the birth and the recovery made it hard for her to develop a proper attachment in those critical first few days? Especially when she likely had a lot of grand ideas about how wonderful the birth was going to be? I've heard of women have issues like this. 

That could be it, but I think a lot of it is just how Jill is. For all her talk about things feeling so differently because it's *her* baby, at the end of the day, Izzy is just another baby in a long line. I don't doubt she loves him to bits, but after so many kids it's probably just, "eh, babies cry, it's not gonna kill him" with her. She's also anal and controlling, and I can't see her adjusting her routine for anyone. Hence why she insisted on home tutoring for Spanish lessons instead of finding a local babysitter, or, shocker, her and Derrick staggering their schedules so one could be with Israel while the other's at school. She or immediate female family has to care for the baby, and Gothard forbid she doesn't cook a full meal and keep the house spotless at all times.

[EmmieJ]

15 minutes ago, RootBeerFloat said:

That's sometimes called "cocooning" and can help an overstimulated child. Sensory seeking kids (not necessarily with autism, but sometimes) can be comforted by being bundled up like that. They make special, lightweight super spandex-y cocoons for kids. Some like a weighted blanket. All are used under supervision, usually recommended by an OT or similar. Some kids just like a good bear hug.  Of course other kids would freak out at the sensory stimulation of being wrapped up in such a manner. If it's not used to calm the child and is used to punish him, that's horrible! (Not talking about kids who must be restrained for safety.) I don't know if that's what Jilly Muffin is doing or if she's just a dumbass. 

I have heard of cocooning used (in my case, it was a tool that some autistic children did find soothing).  However, the version I heard about was not like a straight-jacket, but the child could cocoon him/herself, and easily remove him/herself from the cocoon.  I think part of the reason I have such a strong reaction to the pictures is that I have claustrophobia and the thought of being restrained like that is triggering to me.  To be a helpless toddler and then trussed up like that, crying your head off while (presumably) your parent takes a picture is nightmarish to me.

Halcionne and others - yes, you are right.  I do make judgments based on only a small portion of what the Duggars share with the world.  Maybe Jill is dealing with a whole variety of issues.  If so, I certainly hope she can work through those given time.  

[gustava]

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/2670859/jill-duggar-dillard-volunteered-at-clinic-founded-by-planned-parenthood-in-jill-jessa-counting-on-finale/#WIlyYU3rJo3zFJQx.99

 

“It’s important for us to not just get an education for the sake of getting an education,” Derick wrote in a blog post on the Dillard Family website. “That is not a true education. The purpose of any educational endeavor, whether primary, secondary, or post-secondary, ought to be to prepare to contribute to society, and for Christians, that means productivity for the Kingdom.”

 

Boy, we called it wrong on Derick.