Jill Duggar Dillard Part 8: They Call Him Choo Choo?

[Mum2theRoyalFlush]

I don't think it's possible. Not with a baby the size of Izzy anyway. 

I had 2 8 pound babies, and both were sunny-side-up. I labored for literally WEEKS with them (not progressing at all). However, once my water was broken, my daughter flipped around as I was walking down the hall, and after being in the right position, she literally shot out, no pushing. (Doctor did manage to catch her, bed not broken down, only 1 set of short gloves/no double-gloving). My 3 sons were all sunny-side-up, and all 3 were "flipped" by the OB as they presented. She pushed on their chins, the babies flipped the right way, and came out. My water was broken every time. So... while mileage may vary, it is possible to have a large baby flip. It is just as usual for a baby to stay the way it is. 

[Valerie3kids]

Is it even possible for a baby, especially a larger one, to flip at the last minute when the mother's water broke days age? Wouldn't it be hard for a baby to flip with little fluid in there?  And usually based on where you feel kicks, you can tell which direction they are facing.

No, it is not as the baby's mobility is based on how much fluid the mother has and the size of the baby. So Jill had a no and a no going for her. I only know this as my daughter had a 5 pounder last week and she had been flipping back and forth each week. The doctor explained until she got larger and had less fluid to use she would continue to flip. That is the first thing they checked before they induced her was to make sure the wee little thing had not flipped again.

[ksgranola1]

Yeah, I was kindof surprised they didn't do an ultrasound on Jill as soon as she got to the hospital. Altho, we don't really know the time pattern, there. Any doc or even a seasoned nurse would know if the baby was head down by feeling it. Sometimes babies will flip b/c they are looking for "the path of least resistance," and he found he couldn't get his big, Duggar head thru his small mother.

[paulypepper]

Not me, that for sure!  When I think about Choo-choo for a name, I think of two things:  Choo-choo from Top Cat and that choo-choo was what the kids across the street called poop.

Top Cat was a cartoon about a bunch of NYC alley cats that came on in the 60s for a couple of seasons.  My brother and I loved it!.  There was Top Cat (aka TC) himself, Choo-choo or Chooch for short and Benny the Ball.  Choo-Choo was voiced by the wonderful Marvin Kaplan.  The names of the cats seem to be inspired by Damon Runyon stories.

OMG! Hadn't thought about Top Cat in years...Thanks for rekindling childhood memories.

[SassyPants]

I do not think Jill or Jessa are small, but rather averaged sized- They had large babies probably because they were consuming too many calories...both of their IGs, particularly Jessa's, were filled with pictures of FF and treats- 

Jill might be more short waisted, hence the belly going straight out. Jessa had more room in her torso to work with-

Mine were both sunny side up and never turned- Thank God for c-sections after nearly 30 hours of Induction with the first and barely 7 lbs,

Those Duggars birth gigantic babies.

[lascuba]

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but that's one of my husband's nicknames for me. Something from one of his other languages.

I also found the midwife's Facebook comment interesting. I seriously hope Jill never helps at a birth, and if she does, I hope they're all routine easy births that anyone could help with. I would hate to see a woman or infant lose their life because of her stupidity or her over inflated ego.

I'm also icked out by the name "Mommy's Butterfly."  It sounds like a child's nickname for vagina. It's not cutesy for an adult to say it and take seriously.

I feel like everything involving birth is given ridiculously "cutesy" names. Call me a curmudgeon but I even hate calling pregnant women "mom/momma." If it were me I'd go, "Excuse me I am NOT your mother."

There's an OB practice I drive by occasionally named "Womb Keepers." If I were a different sort of person I'd deface that sign. 

[Catey]

The majority of my female friends have had home births, I have endured more than my fair share of judgement/comments for my choice to go full hospital/full drug give all that modern medicine has to offer. Funny mix too, of course the fundy-ish family friends all did, their faith is strong *eyeroll* but thinking about it all my University tragically hip friends did the whole home birth thing as well. It almost was a contest it seemed to see how little help that each needed to have a baby and how quickly it could be done and how fast they were back to normal. A home birth that you cleaned up yourself in your pre pregnancy skinny jeans seems to be where the bar was set.

I just don't get the point of us evolving as a species if I still have to squat down in the fields to birth my kids. I will also say this, you get ALOT of judgement from all sides when you are the one planning full on for painkillers and an epi..

 

[SassyPants]

The majority of my female friends have had home births, I have endured more than my fair share of judgement/comments for my choice to go full hospital/full drug give all that modern medicine has to offer. Funny mix too, of course the fundy-ish family friends all did, their faith is strong *eyeroll* but thinking about it all my University tragically hip friends did the whole home birth thing as well. It almost was a contest it seemed to see how little help that each needed to have a baby and how quickly it could be done and how fast they were back to normal. A home birth that you cleaned up yourself in your pre pregnancy skinny jeans seems to be where the bar was set.

I just don't get the point of us evolving as a species if I still have to squat down in the fields to birth my kids. I will also say this, you get ALOT of judgement from all sides when you are the one planning full on for painkillers and an epi..

 

My thought on pain meds vs not, what are you getting by being in more pain? In the end, isn't a healthy baby what most women want and get?

My fundie friend was so happy to push her 11.5 lber out without pain meds, until she was notified that her daughter had broken ribs.

They aren't giving medals for those people who birth without drugs.

Maybe it's a bucket list for some people?

[lascuba]

It's very much a trend, which explains why Jill and Jessa went for homebirths when their mother had no problem seeking out medical professionals. It's also comes from the same mentality of anti-vaxxers...they grew up in a time and place where deaths from childbirth/infectious diseases are rare so they assume it's a thing of a past and romanticize the process. 

[theinvisiblegirl]

My thought on pain meds vs not, what are you getting by being in more pain? In the end, isn't a healthy baby what most women want and get?

My fundie friend was so happy to push her 11.5 lber out without pain meds, until she was notified that her daughter had broken ribs.

They aren't giving medals for those people who birth without drugs.

Maybe it's a bucket list for some people?

So... This is weird. I've been binge watching Gilmore Girls, and I had just exited from this discussion's tab when one of the characters immediately said something that struck me as pertinent: "God helps those who struggle."

Now, anyone that's watched Gilmore Girls know that this isn't a religious show at all (why they're airing it on UP is beyond me), so it was definitely not said in a religious context. However, when I thought about it in a religious context, maybe Jill and Jessa think that's the case, that God will reward them for their pain if they have a 10 pound baby at home without drugs or real medical assistance (until the shit hits the fan, of course).

[Dandruff]

The name reminds me of Choo Choo Charlie from the old Good & Plenty commercial.  I used to love the ad...though I never liked the candy.

[Denim Jumper]

Is it even possible for a baby, especially a larger one, to flip at the last minute when the mother's water broke days age? Wouldn't it be hard for a baby to flip with little fluid in there?  And usually based on where you feel kicks, you can tell which direction they are facing.

Yes, it happened with my 3rd baby. I had gone to the hospital when I was maybe 8 hours into labor, and while I was there they did an ultrasound and he was head-down but not engaged in the pelvis (my other two were floating vertex, as well). They sent me home since I was no where near ready to be admitted, and about 8 or so hours later I felt this very strange sensation, which I thought was a real bitch of a contraction that went on for a good 3 or 4 relentless minutes.

Went back to the hospital to get the show on the road, and about 6 or 7 hours later I started pushing, but he just wasn't descending, so they decided to do another ultrasound to see why the pushing was getting nowhere... and found that that he had turned breech. That weird "contraction" the night before was him turning a cartwheel, evidently. The OB manged to get him to turn (albeit sunny-side up) by doing a really fucking painful ECV.

[umsami]

ChooChoo makes me think of the SImpsons episode when one of the characters has a crush on Lisa and gives her a Valentine that says, "I choo-choo-choose you!"

For about 10 years prior to my first pregnancy, I was a massage therapist....still wear Birkis, too.  So I have my crunchy credentials.  I remember reading Ina May Gaskin's book and being all enamored with a home birth.  I was seeing the CNM at my OB's office (who I still adore) but ended up with gestational diabetes and having to be induced.  I went without drugs for about five hours, and then the anesthesiologist came in.  I love that man.  I've had back labor which every single baby, which means I love him even more.

Two of my births were precepitous, which means that labor is three hours of less. They didn't have time for an epidural.  So I've had the drug free births, too.  It is very empowering.   But give me an epidural any time.  

I get the birth plan dream thing.  I do.  But in the end, a healthy baby is all that matter. I'd have a lot more respect for her as a midwife if she recognized that labor was not progressing and she went to the hospital a lot earlier.

[nastyhobbitses]

It's very much a trend, which explains why Jill and Jessa went for homebirths when their mother had no problem seeking out medical professionals. It's also comes from the same mentality of anti-vaxxers...they grew up in a time and place where deaths from childbirth/infectious diseases are rare so they assume it's a thing of a past and romanticize the process. 

That's why it sounds cruel, but I really hope Jill visits some more deprived areas of Guatemala/Central America and sees the devastation that lack of appropriate pre- and peri-natal care can have on women, babies, and families. She was lucky that as an affluent white woman in a developed country, she could high-tail it to the hospital when things went south and not worry too much about cost (Daddy and TLC and Derick will handle it!). Though actually, according to the World Bank, Guatemala has dramatically improved maternal and infant survival rates in that last decade, and according to the UN, 51.3% of births from 2008-2012 were "institutional deliveries" and the neonatal mortality rate stands at 13 per 1000 live births (a drop from last year). Even still, 13 is still too high a number, IMO, and more access to health care will change that. But I digress: Jill seemed to care more about the ~experience~ and was privileged enough that she didn't have to think too much about the consequences of not getting appropriate professional care during her delivery, since the hospital was just a car ride away. Millions of women around the world aren't so blessed.

I have the same thoughts about anti-vaxxers: oh, you think that vaccines are liquid autism (wrong, also pretty damn ableist) and everyone is just fine and dandy without them? Here, hang out in this home for children who will never walk again due to polio. Or spend a day with this woman whose baby died from whooping cough. And then think about the fact that you would rather your child die in agony from a completely preventable disease than POSSIBLY have a cognitive disability.

[Mum2theRoyalFlush]

I do not think Jill or Jessa are small, but rather averaged sized- They had large babies probably because they were consuming too many calories...both of their IGs, particularly Jessa's, were filled with pictures of FF and treats- 

Jill might be more short waisted, hence the belly going straight out. Jessa had more room in her torso to work with-

Mine were both sunny side up and never turned- Thank God for c-sections after nearly 30 hours of Induction with the first and barely 7 lbs,

Those Duggars birth gigantic babies.

I wish I could double like this post. 

[Mela99]

He could be called far worse things than Choo-Choo... coughjessablessacough. 

But I've got no room to talk. My mother's nickname for me as a child was Puppinella. Why is still beyond me. We're Italian and I always thought it sounded dangerously close to puttanella, which basically means whore...

 

[Catey]

Don't even get me started on the anti vaxer's. My youngest son is on the spectrum, the 1st question I get is did you vaccinate him.... Infuriating!!

 

How is it that my kids cant bring PB & J sandwiches to school but it is all good for you kid to show up with Rubella?? Which CAN still be caught by my kids even with the vaccination, a much lesser version but still a possibility.

 

 

[jqlgoblue]

So the word on the street is that the epidural drugs your baby. They come out drunk and don't bond with the mother immediately. Also, you can have back pain for the rest of your life if you get an epidural.

Also, there is now talk that the number of vaccines a kid gets at one time is too many and they can 'overreact' to it .... so it might not be the actual vaccines.

This is all stuff my cousin read on the internet, so it must be true.

[Imagine20]

They can't put anything on the internet that isn't true! Totally.

[OodOnTheLoo]

Don't even get me started on the anti vaxer's. My youngest son is on the spectrum, the 1st question I get is did you vaccinate him.... Infuriating!!

 

How is it that my kids cant bring PB & J sandwiches to school but it is all good for you kid to show up with Rubella?? Which CAN still be caught by my kids even with the vaccination, a much lesser version but still a possibility.

 

 

why is it a Child positive for Hep B can atend school but if I choose to delay the hep b vaccine because my son has a horrific time following vaccinations, he can't attend in CA?  Don't get me wrong, I'm provaccine but dammit not everyone who delays or opts out of one or two is a nut and worried about autism.  

And come on, peanut butter to a child with severe allergies is a clear and present danger.  A child not vaccinated for chicken pox is not...virtually most of the time he doesn't have it.

[foreign fundie]

It's very much a trend, which explains why Jill and Jessa went for homebirths when their mother had no problem seeking out medical professionals. It's also comes from the same mentality of anti-vaxxers...they grew up in a time and place where deaths from childbirth/infectious diseases are rare so they assume it's a thing of a past and romanticize the process. 

romanticize is excactly the word. In my circles, meds free home births are the norm.  People talked like all the meds were nonsense as this was what our bodies were made for after all. However, where I lived home births were not allowed. Still I planned to do it the natural way even though in hospital. That didn't last long. I realized birth was not so much a natural process like loosing baby teeth, as it was a hell of a fight for your own life as well as your baby's. A fight in which many woman end up hurt, like bad tears, much blood loss, and other 'normal' complications like loss of bladder control, not to mention post partum depression and psychosis. The problem is people equate 'natural' with biological yoghurt with strawberries, whereas they should be thinking of 'natural' as a herd of wildebeest trying to cross a river full of crocodiles. That is natural, bloody and often deadly. Like giving birth. 

Oh and I hear so many women who feel guilty for not 'accomplishing' natural birth. They feel they are somehow faiures because they ended up with c sections. And they beat themselves up instead of enjoying their healthy baby.

[nst]

So... This is weird. I've been binge watching Gilmore Girls, and I had just exited from this discussion's tab when one of the characters immediately said something that struck me as pertinent: "God helps those who struggle."

Now, anyone that's watched Gilmore Girls know that this isn't a religious show at all (why they're airing it on UP is beyond me), so it was definitely not said in a religious context. However, when I thought about it in a religious context, maybe Jill and Jessa think that's the case, that God will reward them for their pain if they have a 10 pound baby at home without drugs or real medical assistance (until the shit hits the fan, of course).

I was a gilmore girls fanatic (not anymore  - ASP HELLO ugh Chris  ) I don't remember anyone saying that line  

I totally believe that Jill and Jessa and Ben perhaps will think God will reward them - again goes with the elect crap that Ben believes 

[BunnyBee]

just thought this was appropriate

[MyMilkshake]

Ok, I have something to admit.  My uncle is nicknamed Choochoo.  Well, kind of.  See, my family is from El Salvador.  The slang word for dog over there is "chucho" and somewhere along the line, that became his nickname.  (Side note, I've notice that in Latin America, it is relatively common to have a nickname that is completely unrelated to your real name, Jose=Pepe, Francisco=Paco, etc).  Anyway, when my generation was little, we called him Tio Chuchu, instead of Chucho.  We grew out of that eventually, and he's now Tio Chucho.  I wouldn't dream of calling him Tio [First name].  Most people call him Chucho.  

Anyway, I wonder if that's where it comes from for Izzy? Something similar?

Maybe some of the locals started calling Izzy that as a term of endearment and it stuck? In that case it doesn't sound so out there

[just...sare]

I feel like everything involving birth is given ridiculously "cutesy" names. Call me a curmudgeon but I even hate calling pregnant women "mom/momma." If it were me I'd go, "Excuse me I am NOT your mother."

There's an OB practice I drive by occasionally named "Womb Keepers." If I were a different sort of person I'd deface that sign. 

I'd add an "at".

 

Wombat Keepers. Totally different business.