Jill Duggar Dillard Part 8: They Call Him Choo Choo?

[MyMilkshake]

I feel like everything involving birth is given ridiculously "cutesy" names. Call me a curmudgeon but I even hate calling pregnant women "mom/momma." If it were me I'd go, "Excuse me I am NOT your mother."

There's an OB practice I drive by occasionally named "Womb Keepers." If I were a different sort of person I'd deface that sign. 

I despise everything being "mama, momma and mommy" for every damn thing related to being a mother. Like all those groups on facebook named "Quirky Mama" and "Breastfeeding Mommy Talk", etc. barf

[ClaraOswin]

I can't stand the word "mommy" at all. I don't mind "mama" if someone is actually talking to a baby/toddler. But just in regular speech....no. 

[Grace]

There is medical evidence for better outcomes from natural birth. It's not that most people feel like they are getting something specific out of being in pain in my experience. (I sure didn't feel like I was special for the part of my labor that was natural. That crap sucked but I knew being able to move around was important to make progress. I know there are weirdos out there, though, who feel super empowered by it. Good for them. I guess I sort if understand why.) Any kind of medical intervention has the possibility of creating a need for more intervention which causes more intervention over and over. I think epidurals up the likelihood of ending in a c-section by something like 30% vs natural labor. And epidurals aren't without risk. They are sticking a needle in your spine. Things can go wrong just like with any other medical procedure. I mean, I GOT an epidural and I'm not ashamed of it, but I did try to avoid it and it probably eventually contributed somewhat to my needing a c-section just because being flat on my back sure didn't do me any favors

[Screamapillar]

I despise the infantilizing of women with "cute" words like mommy while they're pregnant. Save your cute words for the baby and call a woman a woman! And don't even get me started on "preggers." That word makes my skin crawl.

[DCM]

romanticize is excactly the word. In my circles, meds free home births are the norm.  People talked like all the meds were nonsense as this was what our bodies were made for after all. However, where I lived home births were not allowed. Still I planned to do it the natural way even though in hospital. That didn't last long. I realized birth was not so much a natural process like loosing baby teeth, as it was a hell of a fight for your own life as well as your baby's. A fight in which many woman end up hurt, like bad tears, much blood loss, and other 'normal' complications like loss of bladder control, not to mention post partum depression and psychosis. The problem is people equate 'natural' with biological yoghurt with strawberries, whereas they should be thinking of 'natural' as a herd of wildebeest trying to cross a river full of crocodiles. That is natural, bloody and often deadly. Like giving birth. 

Oh and I hear so many women who feel guilty for not 'accomplishing' natural birth. They feel they are somehow faiures because they ended up with c sections. And they beat themselves up instead of enjoying their healthy baby.

Women are allowed to feel however they want about their birth experience. Birth Grief is a very real thing, no different than any other traumatic event. Obviously any good and decent mother knows that healthy mama and healthy baby is what matters but you can still feel sad or defeated for not having had an experienced you dreamed while still valuing the positive outcome. It is like telling someone who had a romantic notion of marriage, which ended in divorce that she is not allowed to feel sad about that marriage not turning out the way she hoped. It is ridiculous and unfair. These are legitimate and complex emotional issues that need to be respected. Women need to grieve and not feel the way you think they should all the time. And there are a ton of reasons people want a more natural or unmedicated experience. I had a natural, unmedicated birth with my first in a birth center and we are currently planning a home birth with our second. There are a ton of personal and in my opinion, biological and emotional reasons that I make these choices. Romanticizing may play a part but it was a choice that took a lot of thought and preperation and it is no less legitimate then the mom who opted for the hospital or an induction or a c section or whatever. Granted I am using licensed, highly educated professionals as my state has the highest standard requirements for a midwife to be licenced here. But it is alright to aim for a certain experience while being realistic that modern medicine is there for the outliers in the norm. Does not make us all fundy, or hippy or crazy. 

[ClaraOswin]

Yes, people are allowed to feel however they want about their birth experience. But it's sad if the experience overshadows the outcome and the mother dwells on it or falls into depression because of it. Hopefully in those cases, the mother can seek help (therapy, meds, whatever.)

[DCM]

Yes, people are allowed to feel however they want about their birth experience. But it's sad if the experience overshadows the outcome and the mother dwells on it or falls into depression because of it. Hopefully in those cases, the mother can seek help (therapy, meds, whatever.)

That is why she needs to be legitimized in her feelings. People make women feel guilty for wanting more than just Healthy Baby, Healthy Mama. of course in the end that is what matters but it does not mean that the experience was not an important factor. People, family, friends, society, etc make moms feel like as long as she and the baby are alive and healthy that she shouldnt care at all how they both got there. If we help moms know that the way they are feeling is very deep and real and can be like a type of death, they are more likely to seek help for those feelings. Whether that is counseling, therapy or prescription medications for a chemical imbalance. Otherwise they just feel like something is the matter with them for caring about something that everyone around her is saying should not mattter. Post partum depression was not even a diagnosis or legitimate medical condition for the longest time because no one could understand that a young, healthy mother with an otherwise perfect outcome ie: healthy, happy baby could not feel anything other than joy and elation. 

[EmCatlyn]

I just feel weirded out by her open letter to Jessa where she says "laboring with choo-choo". Felt way too intimate for the public.

Agree about the letter being a little off in tone for a public post, but I wanted to note that she may well have felt that she had a whole train in there.

[EmCatlyn]

Ok, I have something to admit.  My uncle is nicknamed Choochoo.  Well, kind of.  See, my family is from El Salvador.  The slang word for dog over there is "chucho" and somewhere along the line, that became his nickname.  (Side note, I've notice that in Latin America, it is relatively common to have a nickname that is completely unrelated to your real name, Jose=Pepe, Francisco=Paco, etc).  Anyway, when my generation was little, we called him Tio Chuchu, instead of Chucho.  We grew out of that eventually, and he's now Tio Chucho.  I wouldn't dream of calling him Tio [First name].  Most people call him Chucho.  

Anyway, I wonder if that's where it comes from for Izzy? Something similar?

Just as a point of interest, the origins of Pepe and Paco have to do with how the P and Ph and F are related sound variants in Indoeuropean languages.  

Jose=Joseph=Guiseppe= Josef=Josepo... Pepe.

Francisco=Francis=Fracesco=Pranciskus= Prancek=Franco=Paco.

Interestingly, I know "Chucho" or "Chacho" as nicknames for Francisco also (or for"Muchacho" -- boy/young man/guy).   DIalects are fun.

 

[OodOnTheLoo]

 

I love wombats!  However, my brain wanted to deface the sign by making it say Womb Raider 

[Fundie Bunny]

Just as a point of interest, the origins of Pepe and Paco have to do with how the P and Ph and F are related sound variants in Indoeuropean languages.  

Jose=Joseph=Guiseppe= Josef=Josepo... Pepe.

Francisco=Francis=Fracesco=Pranciskus= Prancek=Franco=Paco.

Interestingly, I know "Chucho" or "Chacho" as nicknames for Francisco also (or for"Muchacho" -- boy/young man/guy).   DIalects are fun.

 

About the Pepe thing. My father explained once to me the origin of the nickname. When the masses were given in latin, priest would refer to Joseph as Pater Putativo (or whatever, i don't know latin). Sometimes they would just say PP. So it stuck

And about paco, i didn't know it but i googled it. Apparently, when francis of assisi (or however you name him in english) founded the franciscan order, the monks would refer to him as Pater comunitatis, so PaCo was born

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

We've been speculating about the quality and amount of pre-natal care Jill and Jessa had. I'm curious if either of them was tested for Strep B. If a mother (like me) is positive for Strep B, she needs at least 1 hour of IV antibiotics before the birth. I suppose that could be administered at home by someone who is qualified, but did they even get tested?

[DuggarWatch]

Jill tested positive for Strep B.

[HarleyQuinn]

I think it's cute when my 3 year old calls me "mommy" but no one else is allowed to do that. My married cousins (who have teenage children) refer to each other as "mama" and "daddy. That's the worst.

As for this Mommy's Butterfly Midwifery and how it relates to Jill, I really think Jill was arrogant/dumb enough to think she could essentially be her own midwife. So that's why her CPM wasn't there. 

[Fundie Bunny]

I would like to share a story. The other day my cousin called his wife mom. My aunt looked at him in the eyes and said "I am mom. Don't be creepy". I am still laughing. 

[ksgranola1]

it is routine to test for beta strep before a mother delivers.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

Jill tested positive for Strep B.

See, that's what I get for not reading all the threads!

it is routine to test for beta strep before a mother delivers.

I thought so, but it's also routine to test for gestational diabetes. Lots of FJers have wondered if Jill and Jessa were checked for diabetes. I missed the part about strep and I wondered. 

[DuggarWatch]

See, that's what I get for not reading all the threads!

I thought so, but it's also routine to test for gestational diabetes. Lots of FJers have wondered if Jill and Jessa were checked for diabetes. I missed the part about strep and I wondered. 

That's where the questions about Jill's midwife came up.  Someone said that it looked like Jill was getting an IV at home (Strep antibiotics are given during labor if a woman is positive) and I'm not sure if midwives are allowed to do that in Arkansas.  They aren't allowed to give any pain medications, for example.

[jqlgoblue]

Grace, that makes a lot of sense! I think I'd still want to go for the epidural but I'm crunchy enough to get the moving around part. I'm fairly skeptical of the medical profession overall actually, and do see that how we deliver babies in hospitals doesn't jive with how the body would naturally help the process along.

You really do need to pay attention to your own body and try to communicate that, and both deciphering your body and communicating with doctors can be really tough... and I'm sure even more so while in labor.

My poor cousin pushed for 2+ hours w/o progress and w/o epidural b/c she wanted to go natural. I guess the doctor wasn't there, but whomever was let her do that. Finally the doctor arrived and they gave her an epidural, got the baby out with forceps and she passed out and needed a blood transfusion. The baby had the umbilical cord wrapped around her neck multiple times. Thankfully, the baby is fine... but it was a reminder to me not to be stuck on Plan A for too long.... I think it goes both ways.

[Eternalbluepearl]

I feel like the term "mama" has gotten really popular in the last few years. It is everywhere! When I was growing up in the late 80's/ 90's in New England, everyone called their mom "mom" or "mommy." Now I hear "mama" , "mumma", and "dada" said by older children who acan otherwise speak age-appropriately. It's like parents want to preserve that early baby talk as long as possible. Makes my skin crawl.The fundies seem to love referring to moms as "mama." 

[RabbitKM]

Just as a point of interest, the origins of Pepe and Paco have to do with how the P and Ph and F are related sound variants in Indoeuropean languages.  

Jose=Joseph=Guiseppe= Josef=Josepo... Pepe.

Francisco=Francis=Fracesco=Pranciskus= Prancek=Franco=Paco.

Interestingly, I know "Chucho" or "Chacho" as nicknames for Francisco also (or for"Muchacho" -- boy/young man/guy).   DIalects are fun.

 

Wow my life is making so much sense now.  Still don't know about the Chucho nickname for my uncle though.  We have asked before, and the adults claim they don't know why they started calling him Chucho during their childhood.  

[imokit]

I feel like the term "mama" has gotten really popular in the last few years. It is everywhere! When I was growing up in the late 80's/ 90's in New England, everyone called their mom "mom" or "mommy." Now I hear "mama" , "mumma", and "dada" said by older children who acan otherwise speak age-appropriately. It's like parents want to preserve that early baby talk as long as possible. Makes my skin crawl.The fundies seem to love referring to moms as "mama." 

I wouldn't over generalise.  I think every family is different.

For me, I used mummy as a baby, as I got older I played with parental names, now its mum or mama.  In my house its not parental lead.  Its listening to my mum & aunt use mama as a form of affection/teasing and its because I like it better than Mum and it doesn't sound as babyish to me as mummy.

My mum never expressed a preference (other than not her first name, please).

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I feel like the term "mama" has gotten really popular in the last few years. It is everywhere! When I was growing up in the late 80's/ 90's in New England, everyone called their mom "mom" or "mommy." Now I hear "mama" , "mumma", and "dada" said by older children. Makes my skin crawl.The fundies seem to love referring to moms as "mama." 

One of our neighbors always greets me with, "Hi, Mama!" He's pleasant enough otherwise (and I shy away from confrontation), so I just smile and wave. But I agree, it makes my skin crawl. (Specifically, an unrelated person calling me "mama".)

That's where the questions about Jill's midwife came up.  Someone said that it looked like Jill was getting an IV at home (Strep antibiotics are given during labor if a woman is positive) and I'm not sure if midwives are allowed to do that in Arkansas.  They aren't allowed to give any pain medications, for example.

I missed most of ChooChoo's labor and birth threads, so now I understand the references to Jill taking risks with home birth. I delayed getting to the hospital with my second labor, so I didn't get quite the full hour of IV abx before the baby came. I guess if it had caused problems, I would have been kicking myself for the rest of my life. (But I wanted to finish my supper! I knew the hospital kitchen would be closed and I. WAS. HUNGRY!!)

[EmCatlyn]

About the Pepe thing. My father explained once to me the origin of the nickname. When the masses were given in latin, priest would refer to Joseph as Pater Putativo (or whatever, i don't know latin). Sometimes they would just say PP. So it stuck

And about paco, i didn't know it but i googled it. Apparently, when francis of assisi (or however you name him in english) founded the franciscan order, the monks would refer to him as Pater comunitatis, so PaCo was born

Interesting.  My Cultural Linguistic professor  back in the 1980s connected these nicknames to the consonant shifts among Indoeuropean languages. She had other examples that didn't resonate for me, but I have Pepes andPacos in my family.

Could be both your explanation and hers are correct. Sometimes, especially with names, different elements contribute  to a preferred form, and elements from different traditions coalesce in on name or practice.

 As a modern day example,  consider the debates over who invented/first served the Buffalo wing and the Nacho.

[DuggarWatch]

One of our neighbors always greets me with, "Hi, Mama!" He's pleasant enough otherwise (and I shy away from confrontation), so I just smile and wave. But I agree, it makes my skin crawl. (Specifically, an unrelated person calling me "mama".)

I missed most of ChooChoo's labor and birth threads, so now I understand the references to Jill taking risks with home birth. I delayed getting to the hospital with my second labor, so I didn't get quite the full hour of IV abx before the baby came. I guess if it had caused problems, I would have been kicking myself for the rest of my life. (But I wanted to finish my supper! I knew the hospital kitchen would be closed and I. WAS. HUNGRY!!)

In the end, Jill didn't need the antibiotics because she had a Cesarean.  (i.e., the baby didn't travel through the birth canal where it could have been exposed to Strep.)