Jill Duggar Dillard Part 8: They Call Him Choo Choo?

[Dutchie]

Just as a point of interest, the origins of Pepe and Paco have to do with how the P and Ph and F are related sound variants in Indoeuropean languages.  

Jose=Joseph=Guiseppe= Josef=Josepo... Pepe.

Francisco=Francis=Fracesco=Pranciskus= Prancek=Franco=Paco.

Interestingly, I know "Chucho" or "Chacho" as nicknames for Francisco also (or for"Muchacho" -- boy/young man/guy).   DIalects are fun.

 

Funny, my spanish dad is José aka Pepe, half of the men in our family is Jose/Pepe and or Josefa/Pepa and never knew that.

[ClaraOswin]

If someone wants to think giving birth is magical and empowering....that is fine.

If someone wants to think giving birth sucks....that is fine.

And everything in between is fine too.

No one should try to shame another person...no matter which "side" they may be on. And people shouldn't take it personally if someone has a differing opinion. 

[Karma]

My first labour was long, I had incredible sharp pain on my side for hours, which was unbearable during contractions and left me screaming for an epidural.  I had one, after 12 hours of contractions with my posterior, big headed DD, plus two top ups over the next 8 or so hours.  I was told I had to let it wear off or I'd need forceps for the birth, so let it wear off to push her out, but I felt like I was being literally ripped apart by that side pain, so they topped it up again and bought out the forceps.  I felt so guilty when I saw she had large bruises on her face - luckily no damage seems to gave been done. I had back spasms for over a year which I was told were probably due to the epidural, and having to lay on my left side for so many hours.  That experience wasn't what I dreamt of, but my baby was beautiful and healthy and the rest didn't matter.

Three years later I had a quick labour with DS after being induced (waters had broken 36 hours earlier. They'd cancelled the induction the day before as I'd had some medical complications).  At midday after  1.5 hours of contractions I was 4cm dilated, but those next 13 minutes were, to say the least, intense, and the OB arrived just in time to deliver DS.  I realised after his birth that this was what women meant by birth being magical and empowering.  I felt so much better after not having an epidural, and DS had no bruising.  

My point is that just as some birth experiences can kind of suck, and some can be magical and empowering, every woman has the right to their own view of their experience.  Every delivery is different.  Going in, you've got to be prepared to be flexible. In the end it's really about getting that baby out healthy, not about our experience.

[Sweet Fellowship]

I'm pregnant with my first baby. I know that I won't be able to have that all natural water birth I always wanted. I'm classed as high risk due to gestational diabetes and hypertension. The thought of having a forceps delivery or c-section terrifies me,  but if it comes to one of those, then so be it. Healthy baby trumps everything else.

[ClaraOswin]

I'm pregnant with my first baby. I know that I won't be able to have that all natural water birth I always wanted. I'm classed as high risk due to gestational diabetes and hypertension. The thought of having a forceps delivery or c-section terrifies me,  but if it comes to one of those, then so be it. Healthy baby trumps everything else.

I had a c-section. It wasn't fun, of course. But it really wasn't THAT bad. I mean, if I were to have another child...I'd do a repeat c-section. So obviously it couldn't have been too horrible.

Also, I don't think forceps are as scary as they sound. They don't use them to yank the baby out or anything. They are more just to guide the baby. At least that's always been my understanding.

[ljohnson2006]

Maybe they call the baby Choo-choo because he's as big as a train?

[Valerie3kids]

I'm pregnant with my first baby. I know that I won't be able to have that all natural water birth I always wanted. I'm classed as high risk due to gestational diabetes and hypertension. The thought of having a forceps delivery or c-section terrifies me,  but if it comes to one of those, then so be it. Healthy baby trumps everything else.

My youngest daughter has two children and had both gestational diabetes and the hypertension with the second. The first was born at 37 weeks due to her hypertension and she was an induced vaginal delivery. Second was born also at 37 weeks, she was put on bedrest at 30 weeks and was also an induced vaginal delivery. Both were small as in right over 5 pounds, but healthy and needed no NICU time. The second was stressful as her hypertension hit far earlier in the pregnancy than it did the first time. What I am trying to say in my rambling way is your line of thinking is great. Healthy baby and mother are the ultimate outcome. That line of thinking will help you a lot along the way. Forceps are not as commonly used as they once were. They now use a "vacumn" device that tends to do less bruising to the baby and it is usually used just as to guide the baby into the right direction. She did spend a lot of time talking to her OB about all the "what if" situations as that helped her feel a little more prepared if she had ended up with a section. I wish you the best and happy baby thoughts!

I do remember when I had my first in 1981. She was almost 9 pounds and they decided I was not large enough so did a section with no labor. At our Lamaze reunion, a woman asked me how disappointed was I for having to have a section and pain meds? I really had not thought of it until she asked and I remember saying, "I am just glad she is healthy." Woman can be hard on other woman. I felt that day it was all about how much pain each person had endured to bring their child into the world and I was looking at it completely differently.

Also, mama can be a "southern" thing at times. My children all call me "mama" and they are all married adults. It still melts my heart especially when my son does it as he is a military vet and now a state trooper but is still my baby. They do tend to call me "mom" at times in public but usually slip back to "mama". I am in Florida if that helps any of the discussion.

[lascuba]

If you're all about "magical and empowering," more power to you, but I really don't understand the objection to saying birth sucks and hand slapping people for "scaring women." For the vast majority of women, any  kind birth involves pain, and pain sucks. It just does. What, are you going to lie to women about that and say that the pain everyone talks about is a myth? Birth sucks, you do it because you want a baby enough to go through the hassle. The End. 

[Exposedknees]

Pregnancy and childbirth does suck. It's worth it, but it sucks. My youngest is 20. Twenty years later I can still say it sucked. I would do it again

to have my two daughters. I'm not going to lie and say it was magical and awesome.

[bingbangboom]

Forceps suck,3rd degree tears suck!*

Babies don't suck...well, only to eat!

*source: Boom baby one.

[SassyPants]

I had 2 c-sections and was fine. No issues and  was up and mobile within hours of each birth.  The kids are now 28 and 25, and I have had had zero issues. I was healthy, late 20s early 30s with each birth and am now nearing 60. No regrets. No side effects, No peeing or pooping with coughing, but I am in good physical shape and always have been My kids were  both 7 lbs even. No fast food binges, constant treats or 10 lb babies. I also worked until my DD in ICU nursing. 

[ClaraOswin]

I had 2 c-sections and was fine. No issues and  was up and mobile within hours of each birth.  The kids are now 28 and 25, and I have had had zero issues. I was healthy, late 20s early 30s with each birth and am now nearing 60. No regrets. No side effects, No peeing or pooping with coughing, but I am in good physical shape and always have been My kids were  both 7 lbs even. No fast food binges, constant treats or 10 lb babies. I also worked until my DD in ICU nursing. 

Can I ask why you had to have c-sections?

I wasn't allowed to walk around until the day after mine. Or maybe it was that evening? I can't remember now. I just recall being numb for quite some time. And I couldn't stop shaking. Like...a LOT of shaking...that first day.

[PennySycamore]

I had a c-section. It wasn't fun, of course. But it really wasn't THAT bad. I mean, if I were to have another child...I'd do a repeat c-section. So obviously it couldn't have been too horrible.

Also, I don't think forceps are as scary as they sound. They don't use them to yank the baby out or anything. They are more just to guide the baby. At least that's always been my understanding.

Yeah, sometimes the doctor does use the forceps to yank the baby out.  I had a high forceps delivery with my premie.  My doctor could see her heart rate dropping on the fetal monitor and knew Katherine needed to be OUT so that the team from the NICU in the delivery room could resuscitate her.  Her Apgars were 0 and 2. My doctor later apologized for how much the birth hurt, but he knew that the baby needed to be delivered STAT!

I'd take a repeat c-section any day in terms of pain over a high forceps birth.

[Exposedknees]

I had 2 C-sections as well. When all was said and done it was determined that I had a "dysfunctional uterus"- which I think was doctor speak for "you need a c section or they're staying in there"

They made me walk about 12 hours after my first section....it was excruciating and I remember the shakes you describe very vividly CO. With my second one, I had taken the VBAC classes and tried vaginally but to no avail. With my second there were a lot of complications with the delivery including a life threatening hemorrhage. I don't remember much of anything about that one post delivery.

In the end-even with the drama, it was totally worth it. 

 

[Whoosh]

Two things I know (or think I know) from research not experience.  I think everyone is basically right about forceps.  Sometimes they are used very gently and sometimes they are not.  The level of distress of the baby or mother and the level of perceived necessity to move things along should and usually does determine how they are used.  C-sections I can't comment on much except to say that different individuals react vastly differently to anesthetics etc and sometimes the same individual can have varying reactions to very similar types and doses of an anesthetic.  

 

[Californiacicle]

 

My kids (11, 10 and 8) all still call me Mama. It wasn't a deliberate choice and my 8 year old occasionally decides he's going to call me Mummy or Mum but it never sticks. I don't see it as infantilising - they are actually much more independent than many of their peers - and I like that they feel secure enough to call me whatever comes naturally. I remember being embarrassed about calling my parents Mummy and Daddy in primary school and forcing myself to say Mum and Dad.

My 6 year old still calls me Mama and my husband Dada. We love those names not because it makes him seem little but because those are his special names for us. I would be very happy if he called me Mama forever and don't see it as an infantilized name. My 24 year old step daughter calls her dad, Papa of her own choosing.

[SassyPants]

Can I ask why you had to have c-sections?

I wasn't allowed to walk around until the day after mine. Or maybe it was that evening? I can't remember now. I just recall being numb for quite some time. And I couldn't stop shaking. Like...a LOT of shaking...that first day.

My first I was induced for post dates (43 weeks), and my baby had fetal distress some 28 hours into labor. Shaking is a side effect of medications given. My daughter was born at 11:30 PM and I was up and walking in the AM. 

I had a repeat section for the second at 42 weeks- no labor. He was born at 2PM and I was up and walking by 6 PM.

Compared to all the stories here, I feel blessed. I had zero plans beyond healthy baby, and mom and no plan. I had been a NICU nurse for 6 years before I had any kids, so I am well aquatinted with the horror stories.

I am over the moon with both of my experiences and results.

I cannot imagine being displeased with a healthy outcome.

I guess when you've seen the worst of the worst, you have a different perspective. 

[lascuba]

I read this great article years ago about Virginia Apgar, creator of the Apgar score, that talked a lot about forceps and how they've been replaced by c-sections and, therefore, less OBs know how to use them. One of the things that really stood out to me was how forceps expertise was described as being as much "art" as expertise. It takes a lot of training to learn how to use them properly, but they also rely on the  practitioner having a knack for them, while a C-section is a pretty simple surgery most of the time. 

 

[notfundy]

I really feel for all of you younger women (my kids are in their thirties now, so I am a woman of a certain age).  There seem to be so many more - and higher- expectations about pregnancy and childbirth today than when I was a young mother in the late seventies/early eighties.  

Maybe it was just the circle I was in, but some of us had c-sections, some of us (me) needed forceps to get the baby out, some had epidurals or other medication (me again, the first time), some had completely medication free births (me, the second time), some had long labors, some had short (me, the second time).  There was lots of variety and thankfully, most had good outcomes (healthy mom, healthy baby).    None of my friends had birth plans that I was aware of, although I think we knew enough to ask for what we needed and speak up when things were not understood/not going as we wanted.  

I have said this before somewhere on this board, but one thing that always comforted me was my mom telling me "No one would do it  (give birth)  more than once if it was that horrible".     I know, that is very simplistic but I found it comforting and true for me, even though my first labor was long and difficult.   I was happy to do it again once enough time had passed and happy that I had that choice. 

My own dear daughter had an unplanned c-section earlier this year and then had to stop breastfeeding after six weeks due to her baby having serious food allergies  (although she pumped for months afterwards and gave up eating EVERYTHING: dairy, gluten, god knows what else).  It was so hard, especially since her closest female friends had those "dream deliveries" you all know about/have heard about.     I get it, it takes a lot to get past a difficult birth experience.   She had read, and planned, and done everything "right".  Her baby girl is seven months old and wonderful and she (my daughter) is past the sadness about what didn't happen around the birth (I think) and the breastfeeding.  

I just wanted to say that I get it and I think things are so much harder for women these days because there is so much information and so many people to compare yourselves to with social media and all.  Those are not bad things - information is a GREAT thing... but it can make things overwhelming.  

[Chickenbutt]

I had a forcep delivery (or Salad Spoons as hubby calls them). Baby was only 6lbs 2ozs and no distress. He just wouldn't come out. I don't remember it hurting any worse than contractions. But like I said before, I really had no expectations and would have delivered any way they told me too, or whichever way was necessary. My feelings on both of my deliveries? OK, had a healthy baby, can I go home? I just didin't have the feelings of euphoria, fulfillment, empowerment or any other descriptor. I was pregnant, had a baby, now let's get home and raise this kid.

Having said that, I am happy for anyone that that had the birth they wanted and felt the feelings they wanted. I am also saddened for people that were not given the opportunity to experience birth they way they wanted.

[PennySycamore]

With one of my c-sections, my third IIRC, I could feel the OB draw the scalpel across my lower abdomen. It wasn't painful -just like the touch of a finger. I do recall being a bit freaked out when I read how you might feel some tugging in a c-section, but then I thought you'd feel something in a vaginal birth, too.

[ClaraOswin]

I really feel for all of you younger women (my kids are in their thirties now, so I am a woman of a certain age).  There seem to be so many more - and higher- expectations about pregnancy and childbirth today than when I was a young mother in the late seventies/early eighties.  

Maybe it was just the circle I was in, but some of us had c-sections, some of us (me) needed forceps to get the baby out, some had epidurals or other medication (me again, the first time), some had completely medication free births (me, the second time), some had long labors, some had short (me, the second time).  There was lots of variety and thankfully, most had good outcomes (healthy mom, healthy baby).    None of my friends had birth plans that I was aware of, although I think we knew enough to ask for what we needed and speak up when things were not understood/not going as we wanted.  

I have said this before somewhere on this board, but one thing that always comforted me was my mom telling me "No one would do it  (give birth)  more than once if it was that horrible".     I know, that is very simplistic but I found it comforting and true for me, even though my first labor was long and difficult.   I was happy to do it again once enough time had passed and happy that I had that choice. 

My own dear daughter had an unplanned c-section earlier this year and then had to stop breastfeeding after six weeks due to her baby having serious food allergies  (although she pumped for months afterwards and gave up eating EVERYTHING: dairy, gluten, god knows what else).  It was so hard, especially since her closest female friends had those "dream deliveries" you all know about/have heard about.     I get it, it takes a lot to get past a difficult birth experience.   She had read, and planned, and done everything "right".  Her baby girl is seven months old and wonderful and she (my daughter) is past the sadness about what didn't happen around the birth (I think) and the breastfeeding.  

I just wanted to say that I get it and I think things are so much harder for women these days because there is so much information and so many people to compare yourselves to with social media and all.  Those are not bad things - information is a GREAT thing... but it can make things overwhelming.  

I think it really depends on your social circle. And your "internet circle." The people I know in real life....no one has talked about being upset with their birth experiences. And like you said...there are so many different experiences in my 'group.' No one is judgey about it at all.

Now the internet is a different story. I've seen a lot of people on internet forums who are quite different than people I encounter in every day life. I'm not sure if it's just their personalities or if it's just that they are more open on a forum perhaps.

I, personally, had very little "planned." So I wasn't too upset by my outcome at all.

I took a baby class at the hospital in preparation for everything. One day we were given a bunch of cards that said things like "pain meds" "forceps" "no pain meds" ....basically a bunch of different choices. She had us rank them in order of importance. Then she told us to take away some of them because we aren't going to be able to have everything we want.

[Karma]

The forceps looked pretty damn big to me, I was glad I couldn't feel anything. And yes, they were to guide her out, but I think there was a fair bit of pulling happening too.  On the plus side, having a PAP smear never seemed like much of a big deal again!

[SportsgalAnnie]

After reading this I am terrified of having kids 

[Karma]

After reading this I am terrified of having kids 

don't be put off! It's just one day.  Epidurals and c sections were invented for a reason.