Nathan and Ashley Salyer - Courtship

[iweartanktops]

48 minutes ago, BeccaGrim said:

I think Kelly has at least one Black sister, doesn't she? Can't speak for the Duggars.  

Really? Do you have a link or anything? Interesting. In my opinion, that makes it even worse that they have a Klan leader framed in their home. 

[formergothardite]

1 minute ago, iweartanktops said:

Really? Do you have a link or anything? Interesting. In my opinion, that makes it even worse that they have a Klan leader framed in their home. 

Pretty sure she does have an adopted sister who is black. It does make it worse that they devoted a whole room to worshiping the Confederacy and a Klan leader. 

[iweartanktops]

21 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

Since i started this 'fight' I want to clarify things.

AShley's blog is from 2009.  THe history of ATI I was looking for that I was given was about the lawsuit.  That was not what i was looking for.

The history I was looking for was how popular ATI was in 2009 vs how popular it is now (enrollment numbers) and where 2009 was in terms of their popularity (peaks,  valleys, etc).  Maybe they're listed in the lawsuit, but the document (which I'm starting to read through) is 114 pages, and I'm looking for about a paragraph or even a sentence (ie in 2009, ATI had X families, today they have Y).  I thought I asked nicely, but I didn't think the response was very nice and felt like a horse's ass for even asking.  And to be honest the response has made me think twice about asking questions here again.

I was also posting from my phone, and reading 114 pages is not for a phone.

Hmm... I'm confused about what I bolded. How many members responded to your question in a way that offended you? I ask questions semi-regularly as I'm still new to certain subjects and families here. As @VelociRapture. Said above, as long as you make an effort on your own, usually people will be happy to help. Another suggestion is if you know you're asking a question that's probably been answered elsewhere, ask it in the SOTDRT forum. It was created for repetitive questions, so if you post there, people shouldn't get annoyed. 

ETA the link to the SOTDRT 

http://www.freejinger.org/forum/221-sotdrt/

[SilverBeach]

6 hours ago, Coconutwater said:

Thank you @calimojo I lurk here a lot and have only posted a few times, but all I have is my iPhone at the moment and there is SO much to dig through and the way I've seen some of the responses by simple questions make me not want to ask where to find something. Threads get derailed and people get lost in the threads. If we could all just post a link as you said or just a simple overview with a link, it would be more pleasant for everyone. I do understand if someone is asking the same question without trying to do the research, but that's a different situation. Just my two cents! 

The search box can be very useful, just enter "ATI" or whatever you are looking for, and drill down from there. Still no luck? Ask away. 

[19 cats and counting]

I honestly thought I did make the effort on my own.  The original question I had was answered (in a not so friendly matter) with a different subject completely.  And enrollment numbers/when ATI peaked were not discussed comprehensively in previous threads as was abruptly pointed out to me.  

Only one member offended me, but she's (he) is higher up on this site and possibly a mod so a high enough opinion not to want to ask another question, which won't happen for awhile if again.

It was like asking a question about cats and getting an answer about trees. 

[iweartanktops]

@19 cats and counting, Palimpsest? She's not a mod. But it's totally fine to confront mods if you feel offended. Mods are people too, and aren't perfect. Perhaps you can send a pm. 

[19 cats and counting]

Thanks tanktops.  

I'm just going to lay low for awhile.  And never post from my phone again.

[VelociRapture]

@19 cats and counting- I'm sorry you were upset over the original response. I don't think she intended to upset anyone (but I obviously don't know as I'm not her.) It's entirely possible she may have misinterpreted what you were actually asking.

I'm almost always on my phone when I post here. The only time I wasn't recently was when I recapped the last episode of BUB - simply because I type faster on the laptop. I haven't had any issues with looking through the search results or gigantic threads - but I also have nothing better to do most days other than spoil my dog rotten. I can see how it could get a bit annoying. 

Don't feel like you can't ask questions or for help. Like I said, most people here are more than happy to help out if needed.

[BirthingGodsWarriors]

This is from one of the Bates fan blogs. 

[Mrs. Figg]

Did anyone else notice that Ashley didn't reciprocate Nathan's "I love you" on the ice rink? That stuck out to me.

[calimojo]

2 hours ago, 19 cats and counting said:

Since i started this 'fight' I want to clarify things.

AShley's blog is from 2009.  THe history of ATI I was looking for that I was given was about the lawsuit.  That was not what i was looking for.

The history I was looking for was how popular ATI was in 2009 vs how popular it is now (enrollment numbers) and where 2009 was in terms of their popularity (peaks,  valleys, etc).  Maybe they're listed in the lawsuit, but the document (which I'm starting to read through) is 114 pages, and I'm looking for about a paragraph or even a sentence (ie in 2009, ATI had X families, today they have Y).  I thought I asked nicely, but I didn't think the response was very nice and felt like a horse's ass for even asking.  And to be honest the response has made me think twice about asking questions here again.

I was also posting from my phone, and reading 114 pages is not for a phone.

There is no fight,  just discussion.    Trust me,  things can get  much more intense around here than this.  I enjoy @Palimpsest posts a lot. She has a great understanding of the subject matter and lots of insight.    I was just expressing my opinion. 

[sophie10130]

58 minutes ago, Mrs. Figg said:

Did anyone else notice that Ashley didn't reciprocate Nathan's "I love you" on the ice rink? That stuck out to me.

I don't have much context, but could it be possible she has decided not to say that until they are engaged? Just another fundie relationship hurdle than can only be surpassed at a specific stage in the relationship (like holding hands at engagement and kissing at the wedding). Maybe her parents drilled into her that she should only say I love you to one person in her whole life lest she give away pieces of her heart.  I knew fundie-lites like that.

[freethemall]

3 hours ago, iweartanktops said:

Really? Do you have a link or anything? Interesting. In my opinion, that makes it even worse that they have a Klan leader framed in their home. 

Her wedding was featured on the show, I think last season, and shower in another episode. It was an outdoor wedding and the bateseseses were all whiny about it. She's also not as religious - had a baby out of wedlock.

[RosyDaisy]

@19 cats and counting, Please stay and keep posting and asking questions. Just ignore the bitchy remarks. Length of membership and number of posts mean nothing really. Respect is earned, not a given based on status.

[JillyO]

4 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

I don't have much context, but could it be possible she has decided not to say that until they are engaged? Just another fundie relationship hurdle than can only be surpassed at a specific stage in the relationship (like holding hands at engagement and kissing at the wedding). Maybe her parents drilled into her that she should only say I love you to one person in her whole life lest she give away pieces of her heart.  I knew fundie-lites like that.

Honestly, I would understand that much better than "don't front-hug until you're married" or "don't hold hands until you're engaged lest you give away pieces of your heart." Surely, if you believe the crap about "giving away pieces of your heart," having been in love with someone else other than your spouse should be the biggest no-no. This cult and its rules are so stupid and senseless, it hurts.

[eclairaupistache]

13 hours ago, Diana said:

Latino is not a race, its the way people from latin America is called in the United States whatever their race is. So a latino can be of african, european, native american or asian ancestry, and in most cases a mix of any of that in diferent degrees that may vary a lot depending on the country they are from. Ashelys mom is from the Dominican Republic a country where most of the population is a mix of white and black.

I know that Latino is not a race genetically speaking (but mixed most of the time), it's more of a cultural thing. Most of the time if you asked people what ethnic background they have Latinos would probably say Latino, not mixed. Same thing with Jews. Genetically speaking most of the Jews are mixed caucasian, middle Eastern (that might be a Caucasian as well, idk) or something else. If you asked their race most of them will just say Jewish, not mixed or white (although there seems to be a a genetic marker for Ashkenazi Jews). So I just wanted to phrase my comment in a more common way and not be over-exact and all annoying, sorry if that was offensive.

I have an example of a Latina who doesn't seem to know that Latino is not a race genetically speaking, she is surprised that she is mostly caucasian :-) (see second half of the video):

 

Oh my, I'm going to get so much hate for this :-/

 

[HereticHick]

21 hours ago, eclairaupistache said:

Erm, I know it's a very touchy subject but I have a question about this cult and race:

So Nathan now is courting a Latina and Josiah Duggar was courting a half-Latina?

I have also seen people with an East Asian background in this cult (Jennifer and John Hartono who visit the Duggars often) and that girl who gave the interview on youtube on how she escaped the cult.

But where are Blacks? Do you think the cult is especially racist towards black people but less racist towards other races?

Do you think the Duggars or the Bates would allow their children to court someone who is Black? Honestly I am surprised that Nathan is allowed to court her considering she doesn't look like a typical WASP at all! And you would think that it is important to them for their babies to look as white as a marshmallow.

 

Just my 2 cents-- Speaking as a mixed-race human, we don't always like it when others refer to us as  "half-X" or "quarter-X" or whatever, like our American Kennel Club registration is being discussed. In the United States, ethnicity/race is self identified (with the exception of tribal enrollment),  If we call ourselves X, that's what we are.

Marjorie Jackson refers to herself as Latina in this hashtag on one of her photos:

 

[Diana]

6 hours ago, eclairaupistache said:

I know that Latino is not a race genetically speaking (but mixed most of the time), it's more of a cultural thing. Most of the time if you asked people what ethnic background they have Latinos would probably say Latino, not mixed. Same thing with Jews. Genetically speaking most of the Jews are mixed caucasian, middle Eastern (that might be a Caucasian as well, idk) or something else. If you asked their race most of them will just say Jewish, not mixed or white (although there seems to be a a genetic marker for Ashkenazi Jews). So I just wanted to phrase my comment in a more common way and not be over-exact and all annoying, sorry if that was offensive.

I have an example of a Latina who doesn't seem to know that Latino is not a race genetically speaking, she is surprised that she is mostly caucasian :-) (see second half of the video):

 

Oh my, I'm going to get so much hate for this :-/

 

Its not that i found your post ofensive or anything like that, i already knew that a lot of people  confuses race with cultural background even the latinos themselves sometimes(i have seen a similar video with Jessica Alba being in shock about having spanish blood lol). Just that by the way you worded your post it didnt make sense since you said that Ashley was a latina and Marjorie a half latina, when the only diference between them(having both a latina mom and a usa american dad) is that Ashley has a darker skin than Marjorie, so it seemed to me like you confused here being latina with being mixed or black.

[eclairaupistache]

1 hour ago, Diana said:

Its not that i found your post ofensive or anything like that, i already knew that a lot of people  confuses race with cultural background even the latinos themselves sometimes(i have seen a similar video with Jessica Alba being in shock about having spanish blood lol). Just that by the way you worded your post it didnt make sense since you said that Ashley was a latina and Marjorie a half latina, when the only diference between them(having both a latina mom and a usa american dad) is that Ashley has a darker skin than Marjorie, so it seemed to me like you confused here being latina with being mixed or black.

Sorry, yes, I see my wording (half latina) was wrong here. Plus: I didn't know that Ashley has a us american father. I just assumed she is latina from both sides because everyone was like "oh, will Nathan be able to fit into the culture.., and: she is soooo diferent from him etc." and I have to admit I also assumed it because she looks more "ethnic" than Marjorie, I'm really sorry!

[Casserole]

3 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Just my 2 cents-- Speaking as a mixed-race human, we don't always like it when others refer to us as  "half-X" or "quarter-X" or whatever, like our American Kennel Club registration is being discussed. In the United States, ethnicity/race is self identified (with the exception of tribal enrollment),  If we call ourselves X, that's what we are.

Marjorie Jackson refers to herself as Latina in this hashtag on one of her photos:

 

 

off topic, but Marjorie could seriously make good money on Etsy selling her calligraphy stuff. She may be a crazy fundie, but she's talented. 

[HereticHick]

5 hours ago, eclairaupistache said:

Sorry, yes, I see my wording (half latina) was wrong here. Plus: I didn't know that Ashley has a us american father. I just assumed she is latina from both sides because everyone was like "oh, will Nathan be able to fit into the culture.., and: she is soooo diferent from him etc." and I have to admit I also assumed it because she looks more "ethnic" than Marjorie, I'm really sorry!

"US American," as I am sure you know, is also not a "race" or "ethnicity."  It is a nationality. We Americans come in a wide  wonderful variety of colors and flavors. Always have, always will.

[nelliebelle1197]

3 hours ago, HereticHick said:

"US American," as I am sure you know, is also not a "race" or "ethnicity."  It is a nationality. We Americans come in a wide  wonderful variety of colors and flavors. Always have, always will.

Yep and it is okay to say white person when describing Ashley and Marjorie's dads

So, HH- what flavor are you? I imagine you something crispy and BBQ'd flavored, but not a chip.

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

Is "US american" code for Caucasian? Anyways, I'm "mexican-american" but I'll just refer to myself as Hispanic. There's debate within the community whether to use Latino(a). To me, both are okay. 

 

I honestly don't think any of the Duggars/Bates will court/marry a black person. In their eyes, there is some leeway with "latino(a)s" because some don't look very ethnic and their future babies will most likely come out looking white.  I saw a "WHAT WOULD YOU DO?" episode where they set up a young interracial couple (black boyfriend/white girlfriend) and they tell the girl's father they are dating. The dad is angry his daughter is dating a black man. The young couple leaves the diner and a pair of old women sitting in the next booth tell the father he's right and tell him he's a good dad. The older woman out of the two even cried and said his daughter was too beautiful to date a black man!!! When the host pops out and tells the women it was an act, the women said they love black people but don't think the races should mix. The host is mexican-american and asked the older woman who was crying, whether he should be allowed to marry a Caucasian woman (or something like that). The lady said yes because Hispanics look and ARE white, unlike black people. 

 

[amendgitan]

On March 29, 2016 at 0:01 PM, 19 cats and counting said:

If she's only 20, I hope they don't push her into marriage before she's ready.  She's still really young.

It's super sad to me that these people essentially have to marry their first crush. 

[Sundaymorning]

6 minutes ago, amendgitan said:

It's super sad to me that these people essentially have to marry their first crush. 

I agree. It's so fucked up: they get pressured to get married fast and basically to the first person they court (since broken courtships are ebil). And they don't even have the chance to really get to know their partner, since private meeting or conversations are not allowed. And of course, divorce is also banned.

Those who don't have the huge luck to actually be compatible with their first courting partner in all the ways happily married people should be, are royally screwed (looking at you, Anna and Joshley).