Josh Duggar, Admitted Child Molester - Part 9

[DeFrauder]

I mean, most of the stuff I've read about the effects of sex/orgasms on the body have been good. The only endocrinogical (is that even a word?) downsides to sex would be increased dopaminergic activity which could lead to a sex addiction.

The interesting thing is how they partition monogamous only have ever had one partner sex from multiple partners or serial monogamy type sex. JB's sex addiction for Michelle does not seem to be a danger.

Duggar missionary style (sorry!) would have a positive health effect, while sleeping around has this negative health effect. There seems to be some elaborate pseudoscience happening here.

[halcionne]

Here's the article Salon quoted: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... esses.html

WTF is Bill Gothard doing giving an interview to the Daily Mail? It's so crazy that I can't really wrap my head around it. Is this real life??

[Mama Mia]

To me,Josh viewing pornography at work is just another example of his selfishness. The workplace in question could have been in legal trouble for exposing an underage teen to pornography (and given how the Duggars have a problem with the truth, I'm surprised that they didn't go this route). He had no regard for how his irresponsibility might impact his co-workers or boss, just about his immediate gratification. As usual,Josh got daddy to bail him out, thus reinforcing the view that the Duggar image is the most important thing.

But that seems, to me, to be the kind of curiosity and selfishness that is perfectly normal developmentally for a 16 year old boy. Particularly 10- 11 years ago -- which was when porn was immediately available on the Internet - but not yet on phones. Gross and disrespectful and self- absorbed - but developmentally normal. Just like toddler temper tantrums are

" normal"

I think a large part of the problem with Josh is that their society puts every single sexual thing ( outside of married sex) and labels it ALL as equally horrible. Porns bad. Molestation is bad. Pre- marital sex is bad. It's all the same to them. The same with males and females and adults and children - they have messed up categories they put people in. They don't seem to differentiate ages the same way everyone else does. Everyone who is unmarried is a child. Everyone who is married is an adult. All males and females are seen as sexualized from birth. So a five year old is no different than a fifteen year old.

It's all so weird and mixed up. With this combination of constant emphasis and constant shame on anyything sexual.

[DeFrauder]

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33464970

Program for pedophiles in Britain.

Edit: not Britain, GERMANY.

[mebeforee]

I think it's bizarre that they continually claim the girls 'didn't know until their parents told them', when we know for a fact that two of the daughters were 100% awake when the molestations happened. Even if we give the benefit of the doubt that the older daughters who were touched in their sleep were unaware until their parents discussed the issue, we know for a fact that the younger daughters knew already! And that those molestations happened AFTER the original, touching-while-sleeping confessions. He stated that the sleeping molestations had happened around 5 times (so maybe more, I'm inclined to believe that Josh would choose the 'conservative' estimate :? ) but the touching of the two youngest victims happened after that first time. SO it could potentially be true that Josh confessed what happened with the first wave of assaults (though it's debatable whether he did so willingly - it's stated that he was in tears, which I can believe, but whether we accept JB saying Josh 'came to him' or other accounts that he was caught coming out of the girls' bedroom is up to the individual), and it's possible that with those first assaults, the girls weren't aware. But the second wave of assaults was happening in the open, while the girls were awake, and one of whom he cornered in the laundry room when she was alone. He may have confessed that too, but I got the impression he admitted to the laundry room assault and the story-time assault at once. I have a feeling the only reason he confessed after the story-time assault was because other children witnessed the assault, and either their presence created a feeling of shame in him, or he thought they would tell on him and figured he should at least get points for turning himself in. Those girls were NOT ASLEEP, they were fully aware of what happened to them. The articles about these molestations, especially the critical articles, need to do a better job of making clear that although the Duggars and their friends keep saying the girls weren't aware of the assaults, if that's true it ONLY APPLIES to two of the daughters and possibly the 'babysitter', it is blatantly untrue for the youngest victims.

[DeFrauder]

Here's the article Salon quoted: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... esses.html

WTF is Bill Gothard doing giving an interview to the Daily Mail? It's so crazy that I can't really wrap my head around it. Is this real life??

I was thinking about this.

Gothard (probably with the full support of ATI) picked the loudest tabloid possible to tell the world that he had told JB that the police MUST be involved. That reporting to the authorities was ONE of many mandatory steps in their program for sex offenders.

They are setting up a defence and it was a smart thing to do.

[ShepherdontheRock]

I think it's bizarre that they continually claim the girls 'didn't know until their parents told them', when we know for a fact that two of the daughters were 100% awake when the molestations happened. Even if we give the benefit of the doubt that the older daughters who were touched in their sleep were unaware until their parents discussed the issue, we know for a fact that the younger daughters knew already! And that those molestations happened AFTER the original, touching-while-sleeping confessions. He stated that the sleeping molestations had happened around 5 times (so maybe more, I'm inclined to believe that Josh would choose the 'conservative' estimate :? ) but the touching of the two youngest victims happened after that first time. SO it could potentially be true that Josh confessed what happened with the first wave of assaults (though it's debatable whether he did so willingly - it's stated that he was in tears, which I can believe, but whether we accept JB saying Josh 'came to him' or other accounts that he was caught coming out of the girls' bedroom is up to the individual), and it's possible that with those first assaults, the girls weren't aware. But the second wave of assaults was happening in the open, while the girls were awake, and one of whom he cornered in the laundry room when she was alone. He may have confessed that too, but I got the impression he admitted to the laundry room assault and the story-time assault at once. I have a feeling the only reason he confessed after the story-time assault was because other children witnessed the assault, and either their presence created a feeling of shame in him, or he thought they would tell on him and figured he should at least get points for turning himself in. Those girls were NOT ASLEEP, they were fully aware of what happened to them. The articles about these molestations, especially the critical articles, need to do a better job of making clear that although the Duggars and their friends keep saying the girls weren't aware of the assaults, if that's true it ONLY APPLIES to two of the daughters and possibly the 'babysitter', it is blatantly untrue for the youngest victims.

:agree:

But beyond that, I feel like whether they were asleep/unaware or not should be besides the point. NOTHING is made better by the state of the victims' sleep vs consciousness. In fact, I believe in some states if the victim is unconscious, that can be an aggravating factor, or so I've heard.

[Mama Mia]

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33464970

Program for pedophiles in Britain.

Edit: not Britain, GERMANY.

That's really interesting. Especially that treatment is more available because of different expectations regarding reporting and confidentiality. Not sure how I feel about that, overall. But can see where obtaining treatment might be much more common if there wasn't the expectation of being turned in to authorities.

[ShepherdontheRock]

That's really interesting. Especially that treatment is more available because of different expectations regarding reporting and confidentiality. Not sure how I feel about that, overall. But can see where obtaining treatment might be much more common if there wasn't the expectation of being turned in to authorities.

I heard on NPR about in US, a guy named "Adam" (not his real name) set up an online support group for those who struggle with sexual attraction to children, but they had a rule that you can't be in the group if you've actually abused a child. I thought that was a good thing- they threw out a guy who admitted to molesting someone- kind of like how they don't let you bring drugs to rehab and kick you out if you're caught with drugs, to minimize the risk to everyone else in the program.

[Trynn]

Wait..... Josh got fired from the hate group for looking at porn? I think I missed this.... And I can't tell from reading the last two pages of this happened recently or before....,

I agree that it shouldn't matter if the victims were conscious or not. It almost makes it worse, because the body keeps score. Te hard to deal with something you don't even know happened to you.

[DeFrauder]

About the victims being asleep and therefore wasn't a big deal because they didn't notice:

So I guess that means all those dentists/doctors/nurses/orderlies who molested patients while under anesthetic didn't upset their victims all that much?

[lookinggoodforjesus]

I'd like to know why Boob wasn't good enough to be Josh's "godly mentor"? Seriously, Boob is the household headship/ultimate authority, everyone has to be accountable to him, and god speaks through him and him alone. Other than the obvious, what were Boob's failings that he couldn't mentor his own son?

NOT EVERY ENDOCRINE GLAND IS AFFECTED BY SEX DRIVE YOU IDIOT.

I would like to introduce Mr Gothard to his pancreas, his parathyroid glands, and his thymus. Those are three endocrine glands right off of the top of my head that have dick all to do with sex drive.

Also - fun fact - endocrine glands are stimulated by genes, usually. They produce hormones because the cells are telling them to. Not because you're sick internally and feeling lust. The hormones come before the lust....

I'm amazed at his arrogance with that comment. Like he knows a thing about endocrinology. Or medicine at all. I mean, 10 points because he seems to acknowledge the existence of endocrine glands and seems to understand the function, but.... No expert.

[ShepherdontheRock]

Wait..... Josh got fired from the hate group for looking at porn? I think I missed this.... And I can't tell from reading the last two pages of this happened recently or before....,

I agree that it shouldn't matter if the victims were conscious or not. It almost makes it worse, because the body keeps score. Te hard to deal with something you don't even know happened to you.

Well, as far as we know, he resigned on his own from FRC and it had nothing to do with watching porn. The speculation is he was asked to quit, but that was because molestation, not porn.

He got caught with porn working for Holt, not FRC.

[Mama Mia]

Wait..... Josh got fired from the hate group for looking at porn? I think I missed this.... And I can't tell from reading the last two pages of this happened recently or before....,

I agree that it shouldn't matter if the victims were conscious or not. It almost makes it worse, because the body keeps score. Te hard to deal with something you don't even know happened to you.

The body keeps score? What does that mean?

[RosyDaisy]

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33464970

Program for pedophiles in Britain.

Edit: not Britain, GERMANY.

Did I read that article right? Virtuous pedophile? Those words don't belong in the same sentence.

[Trynn]

The body keeps score? What does that mean?

Means you still experience trauma even if you weren't conscious/don't remember it. That was probably a bad way to phrase it, but basically I meant that traumatic event is traumatic event, regardless of level of consciousness.

[ShepherdontheRock]

Did I read that article right? Virtuous pedophile? Those words don't belong in the same sentence.

I can see where you're confused.

However, not all child molesters are necessarily pedophiles, and not are pedophiles are necessarily child molesters. The term pedophile just refers to an adult who has a sexual attraction towards prepubescent children, regardless of whether they ever actually act on it or not. Many pedophiles don't choose to act on their attraction to children, and choose celibacy and to avoid children entirely. So you can be a "virtuous" pedophile...

[Mama Mia]

Means you still experience trauma even if you weren't conscious/don't remember it. That was probably a bad way to phrase it, but basically I meant that traumatic event is traumatic event, regardless of level of consciousness.

Really? I don't think that makes sense. I mean, yes if you've been assaulted when asleep or unconscious and later find out about it - of course you will be upset and angry and fearful and all those other emotions ( I was raped when passed out drunk at a party as a teen, and then told about it - so I understand the process ) . Some people might be extra upset because of the circumstance. Personally, for me , it bothered me much, much , much less than a couple of other situations when I was awake- not even a comparison. But everyone's different.

But I don't see how your body could hold on to a trauma if the person isn't even aware of it. It doesn't make it ok, obviously, the act is still horribly wrong. But baring a violent assault - where there is physical injury, or rape - where there is the possibility of pregnancy or an STI - I don't think those girls bodies would be freaking out for some unknown reason.

[gustava]

Wait..... Josh got fired from the hate group for looking at porn? I think I missed this.... And I can't tell from reading the last two pages of this happened recently or before....,

I agree that it shouldn't matter if the victims were conscious or not. It almost makes it worse, because the body keeps score. Te hard to deal with something you don't even know happened to you.

No.

[RosyDaisy]

I can see where you're confused.

However, not all child molesters are necessarily pedophiles, and not are pedophiles are necessarily child molesters. The term pedophile just refers to an adult who has a sexual attraction towards prepubescent children, regardless of whether they ever actually act on it or not. Many pedophiles don't choose to act on their attraction to children, and choose celibacy and to avoid children entirely. So you can be a "virtuous" pedophile...

No, I'm not confused at all. There is nothing virtuous about being a pedophile. Nothing at all.

[Gobbles]

@RosayDaisy

Sure you can be virtuous. (I had to google the meaning of the word, so I hope I got it right.)

Imagine "Peter" finds out that he is attracted to young children and thus classifies as an paedophile. He goes on and gets help to deal with this attraction and to not act it out. He might gets medication or whatever. Fact is he feels bad and he is getting and wanting help. He never molested a child.

How can you judge such a person? Personally I can't. They are sick and need help. And yes, I do have personal experience with that topic. (As the "victim", but there is no proof either way so I have no idea if something happened at all. I was too young to remember and the person who was accused passed away.)

[Alicja]

Really? I don't think that makes sense. I mean, yes if you've been assaulted when asleep or unconscious and later find out about it - of course you will be upset and angry and fearful and all those other emotions ( I was raped when passed out drunk at a party as a teen, and then told about it - so I understand the process ) . Some people might be extra upset because of the circumstance. Personally, for me , it bothered me much, much , much less than a couple of other situations when I was awake- not even a comparison. But everyone's different.

But I don't see how your body could hold on to a trauma if the person isn't even aware of it. It doesn't make it ok, obviously, the act is still horribly wrong. But baring a violent assault - where there is physical injury, or rape - where there is the possibility of pregnancy or an STI - I don't think those girls bodies would be freaking out for some unknown reason.

Stress, anxiety, and depression can all have negative side effects on the body.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

The incident happened 12 years ago, and since then Joshua has lived an honorable life, that speaks for itself,†Gothard said. “He certainly learned his lesson, and now he will have a whole new respect for young ladies.â€

But that's not true. We know that Josh was discovered looking at porn some years after he molested the girls and after he returned from carpentry camp. So that speaks for itself.

[Trynn]

@RosayDaisy

Sure you can be virtuous. (I had to google the meaning of the word, so I hope I got it right.)

Imagine "Peter" finds out that he is attracted to young children and thus classifies as an paedophile. He goes on and gets help to deal with this attraction and to not act it out. He might gets medication or whatever. Fact is he feels bad and he is getting and wanting help. He never molested a child.

How can you judge such a person? Personally I can't. They are sick and need help. And yes, I do have personal experience with that topic. (As the "victim", but there is no proof either way so I have no idea if something happened at all. I was too young to remember and the person who was accused passed away.)

Exactly. This exactly.

[RosyDaisy]

I sure as hell will judge anyone who has an attraction to young children. There is no way to prove they haven't acted on those urges.