Josh Duggar, Admitted Child Molester - Part 9

[Nic]

I don't like Josh, I don't like most of the Duggar. And I hope society will be able to squeeze some justice from them. I have no sympathy for Josh and his crimes.

With that said, I think InTouch/Radar do a disservice by presenting this story as Josh looked at porn at work. They're missing the plot here.

The BIGGER ISSUE is look how IBLP fundies treat a teenager who does that. What kind of people blame losing an election on a teen looking at porn?? It's one thing for these morons to clutch their pearls, but there is no excuse for InTouch/Radar reporters to do the same.

It's not shocking that a teenager is looking at porn, but Radar's writes the headline of "NEW Duggar Sex Scandal! Disgraced Josh Reportedly Caught Watching Porn..." How about instead of that headline, write "Shocking ways IBLP shames teenagers."

And I don't say this out of sympathy for Josh. He's a creep. I'm looking at the bigger issue that there are adults running around with beliefs that are damaging to kids, teens, adults. Looking at legal porn is not a sex scandal, and it seems hypocritical for mainstream to call him out on that.

InTouch/Radar created the talking point of was it OK for Joshie to look at porn (on or off work) when the discussion should be, what the hell is going on with the reaction of the adults around him? Blaming a teen for losing an election, giving him a "serious punishment" etc WTF.

How about point out other reasons why this idiot lost the election. What kind of guy does that kind of nutsy blaming?? How about looking into what they consider "very serious punishment" and whether it fits the infraction (my bet it doesn't)

I see Radar is picking up the story that Daily Mail in UK did. They got it right-- they are looking at the bigger picture and showing the public how these fools handle molestation and their treatment via construction work.

Media: use Josh as a way to expose some of the bigger evils going on here!

ETA: missing punctuation

[DeFrauder]

I fully believe that Boob and Mullet probably punished him more for this this, which is perfectly normal and natural, than they did for him molesting his sisters.

Was it the Holt guy that demanded punishment in this case? I mean, I agree with you that he seemed to get more punishment for this than the molestations. I just think that maybe if this Holt guy was not the victim that the punishment would not have been as severe.

I get the impression that Josh is the "favorite" and the "golden child".

On the other hand, I assume that Josh got the whipping of his life after he was discovered molesting the girls.

[DeFrauder]

I don't like Josh, I don't like most of the Duggar. And I hope society will be able to be able to squeeze some justice from them. I have no sympathy for Josh and his crimes.

With that said, I think InTouch/Radar do a disservice by presenting this story as Josh looked at porn at work. They're missing the plot here.

The BIGGER ISSUE is look how IBLP fundies treat a teenager that does that. What kind of people blame losing an election on a teen looking at porn?? It's one thing for these morons to clutch their pearls, but there is no excuse for InTouch/Radar reporters to do the same.

It's not shocking that a teenager is looking at porn, but Radar's writes the headline of "NEW Duggar Sex Scandal! Disgraced Josh Reportedly Caught Watching Porn..." How about instead of that headline, write "Shocking ways IBLP shames teenagers."

And I don't say this out of sympathy for Josh. He's a creep. I'm looking at the bigger issue that there are adults running around with beliefs that are damaging to kids, teens, adults. Looking at legal porn is not a sex scandal, and it seems hypocritical for mainstream to call him out on that.

InTouch/Radar created the talking point of was it OK for Joshie to look at porn (on or off work) when the discussion should be, what the hell is going on with the reaction of the adults around him? Blaming a teen for losing an election, giving him a "serious punishment" etc WTF.

How about point out other reasons why this idiot lost the election. What kind of guy does that kind of nutsy blaming?? How about looking into what they consider "very serious punishment" and whether it fits the infraction (my bet it doesn't)

I see Radar is picking up the story that Daily Mail in UK did. They got it right-- they are looking at the bigger picture and showing the public how these fools handle molestation and their treatment via construction work.

Media use Josh as a way to expose some of the bigger evils going on here!

I totally agree!

These people are wrong to shame a teen for sneaking a look at porn and they are crazy to believe that such an act would cause another person to lose an election. If God had anything to do with thwarting a election win it wasn't because of Josh, but because these people are not fit to lead!

:-P

The thing is though that a lot of people get really upset about porn. I remember Judge Judy being on a tirade for years that porn was so disgusting and harmful that women should divorce men who looked at it because these men were beyond hope. She is a nutjob, too.

Also, looking at porn at work, especially if using work computers, and super especially for public servants, will get the porn viewer fired. Looking at porn, even legal porn, remains socially unacceptable. Just the presence of porn in the workplace is viewed as sexual harassment.

But, yes, Radar is missing the much larger issue. Unfortunately, that is now the norm in the media. It boggles my mind that reporters are so deliberately stupid.

[Nic]

Was it the Holt guy that demanded punishment in this case? I mean, I agree with you that he seemed to get more punishment for this than the molestations. I just think that maybe if this Holt guy was not the victim that the punishment would not have been as severe.

I get the impression that Josh is the "favorite" and the "golden child".

On the other hand, I assume that Josh got the whipping of his life after he was discovered molesting the girls.

You know when a kid gets in trouble at school sometimes they get punished at home too? I'm guessing that happened here.

Also golden child or not, not only is wrong in JB/J'chelle's eyes to look at porn, which should be punished, I'm thinking it was a pretty embarrassing situation which also would've pissed them off.

And if he is their golden child, (I have no idea on that) I'm also guessing they want to make sure their golden child acts right so that would be another reason why he got it from the Duggar end as well.

[mycatismyheadship]

There are so many ways in which this could have been better addressed, and not all necessarily in the "this is fine" vein.

Is it normal for a 16 year old to want to look at porn, and to do so if able to find it? Sure. This would be the "curiosity" that the Duggars use to justify the molestation: a far more normal example of adolescent curiosity would be the seeking out and viewing of adult porn.

However, with all this talk of it most likely being "legal" porn (ie featuring consenting actors age 18 or over), it was not legal in a teen's hands. The existence of porn itself may be legal, but it is legal for enjoyment by those over 18. If it were marketed to those younger, that would be highly illegal. So however legal it may or may not have been for the porn in question to exist, it was not legal to be viewed by josh at that time. Not abnormal for him to want to see it, but not legal. (After all, how many non-fundie or even very liberal parents would say, "alright son, you can now watch porn if you want!" .... Probably not many. Not wanting your teenager watching porn is not abnormal anymore than it is for the teen to want to watch it). Furthermore, looking at porn at work is a universal "not okay" activity. This could have also been a focus when josh was caught. But to instead turn it into a "brought shame on the family and campaign" situation while meanwhile molestation was "curiosity." They got it backwards...

[Nic]

There are so many ways in which this could have been better addressed, and not all necessarily in the "this is fine" vein.

Is it normal for a 16 year old to want to look at porn, and to do so if able to find it? Sure. This would be the "curiosity" that the Duggars use to justify the molestation: a far more normal example of adolescent curiosity would be the seeking out and viewing of adult porn.

However, with all this talk of it most likely being "legal" porn (ie featuring consenting actors age 18 or over), it was not legal in a teen's hands. The existence of porn itself may be legal, but it is legal for enjoyment by those over 18. If it were marketed to those younger, that would be highly illegal. So however legal it may or may not have been for the porn in question to exist, it was not legal to be viewed by josh at that time. Not abnormal for him to want to see it, but not legal. (After all, how many non-fundie or even very liberal parents would say, "alright son, you can now watch porn if you want!" .... Probably not many. Not wanting your teenager watching porn is not abnormal anymore than it is for the teen to want to watch it). Furthermore, looking at porn at work is a universal "not okay" activity. This could have also been a focus when josh was caught. But to instead turn it into a "brought shame on the family and campaign" situation while meanwhile molestation was "curiosity." They got it backwards...

That's the bigger, more important issue to report. Underage viewing of porn and/or viewing of porn at work in general is not cool, BUT given the choice between those two issues, I think the SIN IN THE CAMP labeling is the bigger issue and more worthy a story.

[FloraKitty35]

I don't like Josh, I don't like most of the Duggar. And I hope society will be able to squeeze some justice from them. I have no sympathy for Josh and his crimes.

With that said, I think InTouch/Radar do a disservice by presenting this story as Josh looked at porn at work. They're missing the plot here.

The BIGGER ISSUE is look how IBLP fundies treat a teenager who does that. What kind of people blame losing an election on a teen looking at porn?? It's one thing for these morons to clutch their pearls, but there is no excuse for InTouch/Radar reporters to do the same.

It's not shocking that a teenager is looking at porn, but Radar's writes the headline of "NEW Duggar Sex Scandal! Disgraced Josh Reportedly Caught Watching Porn..." How about instead of that headline, write "Shocking ways IBLP shames teenagers."

And I don't say this out of sympathy for Josh. He's a creep. I'm looking at the bigger issue that there are adults running around with beliefs that are damaging to kids, teens, adults. Looking at legal porn is not a sex scandal, and it seems hypocritical for mainstream to call him out on that.

InTouch/Radar created the talking point of was it OK for Joshie to look at porn (on or off work) when the discussion should be, what the hell is going on with the reaction of the adults around him? Blaming a teen for losing an election, giving him a "serious punishment" etc WTF.

How about point out other reasons why this idiot lost the election. What kind of guy does that kind of nutsy blaming?? How about looking into what they consider "very serious punishment" and whether it fits the infraction (my bet it doesn't)

I see Radar is picking up the story that Daily Mail in UK did. They got it right-- they are looking at the bigger picture and showing the public how these fools handle molestation and their treatment via construction work.

Media: use Josh as a way to expose some of the bigger evils going on here!

ETA: missing punctuation

Good point about how they should have mentioned IBLP in the headline.

[Gimme a Free RV]

I've been wanting to say this for a long time so I figured this thread is just as good a place as any.

Has it been mentioned how OBNOXIOUSLY focused on sex Josh was right before his wedding? The ickiest--knowing what we now know--part of that TLC episode was when Jim Bob staged "THE talk" with Josh in a room at the church, giving him a book or CD about sex. (Yeah...riiiiight. As if waiting until hours before the ceremony is the right time to be informed about sex.)

Anyway, the entire time JB is faking talking to Josh seriously about the matter, Josh has this smirk on his face, shoots brief side glances at the camera and says stuff like, "Yeah, that's not ALL we'll be doing..."

I'm sure that it's not unusual for a virgin male (and female) to have that topic at the forefront of their minds on their wedding day, but my goodness! Seriously. He didn't even try to hide his "enthusiasm."

:roll:

[Eternalbluepearl]

I'm sorry if this has already been posted, I've been keeping up with the Maxwells and Shupes and not so much the Duggars. Here's a makeup tutorial you tube video about the Duggar's covering up abuse.

youtube.com/watch?v=aQ_QtEJr5pY

[MatthewDuggar]

^^^ It seemed that way for all the kids that have gotten married thus far. I will say it was pretty heavy pre-Josh wedding.

[JenniferJuniper]

If given the chance, nearly all teen boys will watch porn.

One would assume Josh at 16 would have known better than to use the campaign's computer. Why he didn't is an interesting question. Just couldn't control his curiosity because his computer access was so heavily monitored at home? Too clueless about computers to know how to cover his tracks? Or was/is he a porn addict who can never get enough? I think the first two are more likely.

If my son did something like this, I'd be furious. Not only is it embarrassing, it's complete misuse of the campaign's equipment. But once again, I think Jim Bob's and Michelle's hyper-sheltering came back to bite their asses.

[Buzzard]

I think its pretty normal for a 16 year old to sneak a peek at whatever he can get his hands on - whether its dad's magazines/videos or access to a computer that he never had before. Whats more concerning, to me, is that this is a 16 year old who had already displayed EXTREMELY inappropriate sexual behavior. This teen, who already had "counseling" - ie - beat the shit out of him until he was afraid - was engaging in another risky behavior for sexual gratification. This is extremely serious in that his sexual drive is overriding his logic and knowledge that 1) what he was doing was wrong and 2) there are severe repurcussions for getting caught.

Josh needed, and likely still needs, very real counseling. I'm not so afraid that he will harm someone else in the future, but I have very real fear on the "training" he will provide to his sons as they discover themselves. Even toddlers put their hands in their pants sometimes...

[Gawker]

I thought that JB and Michelle said that when Josh returned from the Carpentry Camp when he was 15, his heart was changed and he was all better and "cured". But then at 16, he is caught looking at porn at work. Just more lying by JBob and Michelle during their Megyn Kelly interview. Yes, it is normal for 16 yr old boys to look at porn but in this cause we are supposed to believe that josh was reformed and then walked the straight and narrow. This shows the problem of them not getting Josh the professional counseling he needed after he molested his sisters as it is a major red flag that he is looking at porn when he was 16 AFTER he was supposedly cured and his heart was cleansed by Jesus.

[MayMay1123]

Anybody else read "losing the election" as "losing the erection"? No? Just me? :lol:

[halcionne]

I've been wanting to say this for a long time so I figured this thread is just as good a place as any.

Has it been mentioned how OBNOXIOUSLY focused on sex Josh was right before his wedding? The ickiest--knowing what we now know--part of that TLC episode was when Jim Bob staged "THE talk" with Josh in a room at the church, giving him a book or CD about sex. (Yeah...riiiiight. As if waiting until hours before the ceremony is the right time to be informed about sex.)

Anyway, the entire time JB is faking talking to Josh seriously about the matter, Josh has this smirk on his face, shoots brief side glances at the camera and says stuff like, "Yeah, that's not ALL we'll be doing..."

I'm sure that it's not unusual for a virgin male (and female) to have that topic at the forefront of their minds on their wedding day, but my goodness! Seriously. He didn't even try to hide his "enthusiasm."

:roll:

The lego talk was staged by TLC. Anna's BIL commented on it. I can't post the link right now, but maybe Palimpsest will (she reposts it whenever it comes up) or else I can find it and post it later. It's a great reminder that much of what we saw on the show was fake fake fake.

[Flyinthesoup]

Josh watching porn, as was stated up thread, is old news.

It's possible it was 'sin in the camp', but remember, there was another incident reported in the police report that states an incident took place 'outside the home'. I am highly suspicious this is not pornography. The timing of 'outside the home' incident and the campaign is hard to put together.

Going back and re-reading 'Alice's' report and "concernedmom's' report there seems to be a bit of differences to timing. "Alice", seems to have more accuracy to timing of events and more important, I just realize, she spoke with the woman that turned in the Duggars to the Oprah show, I missed that. Again, Alice was part of the home church. She knows the players.

Concernedmom knows the girl who was sleeping in the Duggar home that was molested, as that was her good friend's daughter, who also attended the home church.

[goldfishgoddess]

I really disagree that it's "normal" for a 16 year old boy to be watching porn on a work computer. For one thing, he is a minor, for another, you can get fired at most businesses for watching porn while you are supposed to be working.

I can see a quick Facebook check now and then during breaks at work. But porn??? Nope, especially for a minor. That's called fast track to getting fired.

ANOTHER SIGN that the professional home remodeling/ pedophile counseling Josh received just didn't work.

[tapdancer493]

I really disagree that it's "normal" for a 16 year old boy to be watching porn on a work computer. For one thing, he is a minor, for another, you can get fired at most businesses for watching porn while you are supposed to be working.

I can see a quick Facebook check now and then during breaks at work. But porn??? Nope, especially for a minor. That's called fast track to getting fired.

ANOTHER SIGN that the professional home remodeling/ pedophile counseling Josh received just didn't work.

I get the feeling (and I could be wrong) that people think it's normal for a 16-year-old to watch porn. Not that it was totally normal he did so on a work computer.

I do agree though that this is pretty good evidence that his "counseling" didn't do much of anything. The behavior (watching porn) is normal for a teenager in their own house on their own computer, privately. Not at work, where I'm guessing he had fewer (if any) restrictions on what he could/could not look at.

[goldfishgoddess]

Bill Gothard interview with Daily Mail about Josh's "cleansing.

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/09/disgrac ... s_sisters/

Raw story version:

https://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/disgraced-minister-godly-carpentry-work-gave-josh-duggar-a-whole-new-respect-for-young-ladies/

Josh Duggar learned to control his “lust†while doing construction work under a “godly mentor†after admitting to sexually abusing his sisters and another girl, said the disgraced former minister who ran the counseling program.

Bill Gothard, who resigned last year from the Institute of Basic Life Principles he founded over sexual harassment claims against him, described the Christian counseling Duggar, then 15, underwent after his parents learned of the molestation, reported The Daily Mail.

“Once he became a Christian, of course his conscience became even more delicate and he wanted to follow and please the Lord,†Gothard said. “When Josh came back he was a different person.â€

The 81-year-old Gothard said Duggar’s parents – Jim Bob and Michelle – contacted him in 2003, and the former ILPB leader said they followed his recommendation to report the abuse to police.

“Josh acknowledges it, he tells his parents and they tell the sisters and that was the first time they have learned about it,†Gothard said. “Same thing with the babysitter, she didn’t know about it.â€

However, police did not investigate the case until three years later, after receiving an anonymous tip, and Jim Bob Duggar instead took his then-teenage son to meet with a state trooper acquaintance who was later convicted twice on child pornography charges.

“This is really quite different to what you think,†Gothard said. “It has been overblown, it is not like he is a sexual predator, he was a teenage boy. What he did, touching over the clothing, is not nearly what you think it is. It was wrong, but unfortunately there’s a lot of this going on in many families today.â€

The Duggars sent the 15-year-old to Little Rock, where he learned carpentry alongside mentor Harold Walker to renovate a former Veterans Administration hospital donated to ILPB by Hobby Lobby.

Gothard said the participants learned about 49 character qualities that ILPB teaches were identified by Jesus, and the teens learned of commands related to each.

“Jesus gave us seven stresses — anger, guilt, lust, business, greed, fear and envy, and there are seven commands that can conquer every one of those stresses,†Gothard explained. “Seven commands that relate to anger, seven that relate to guilt and so on.â€

Gothard said Josh Duggar, who also underwent one-on-one counseling with the “godly†Walker, would have been familiar with those teachings, which his family learned through the Advanced Training Institute homeschooling program they followed.

The teachings also promote pseudoscientific claims about these character qualities.

“The endocrine system consists of about 16 or 17 or so glands throughout our body and they are affected by our sexual drive,†Gothard said. “Lust can have a positive or negative affect on the body depending on what it’s for. God designed us to have an attraction to the opposite sex for marriage, but whoremongers will be damaged by their own system.â€

He said the 27-year-old Duggar, who resigned from the anti-LGBT Family Research Council after the molestation was revealed, was no longer a threat to children.

“The incident happened 12 years ago, and since then Joshua has lived an honorable life, that speaks for itself,†Gothard said. “He certainly learned his lesson, and now he will have a whole new respect for young ladies.â€

[tapdancer493]

Bill Gothard interview with Daily Mail about Josh's "cleansing.

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/09/disgrac ... s_sisters/

Raw story version:

https://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/disgraced-minister-godly-carpentry-work-gave-josh-duggar-a-whole-new-respect-for-young-ladies/

Josh Duggar learned to control his “lust†which was actually sexual predation which he probably didn't learn to control while doing construction work under a “godly mentorâ€a *carpenter for Jesus,* if you will after admitting to sexually abusing his sisters and another girl, said the disgraced former minister who ran the counseling program.

Bill Gothard, who resigned last year from the Institute of Basic Life Principles he founded over sexual harassment claims against him but has recently reappeared with a new website, described the Christian counseling Duggar, then 15, underwent after his parents learned of the molestation, reported The Daily Mail.

“Once he became a Christian which he actually did at 7, not at 15, but who's counting, of course his conscience became even more delicate and he wanted to follow and please the Lord, because all Christians have good consciences. I mean, look at all the sexual abuse among the ebil Catholics!†Gothard said. “When Josh came back he was a different person.â€

The 81-year-old Gothard said Duggar’s parents – Jim Bob and Michelle – contacted him in 2003, and the former ILPB leader said they followed his recommendation to report the abuse to police.

“Josh acknowledges it, he tells his parents, or so they claim, and they tell the sisters and that was the first time they have learned about it, or so they say†Gothard said. “Same thing with the babysitter, she didn’t know about it and Josh was so *godly* that he called her and was like hey girl, i touched you but it was over your clothes so no biggie, right?â€

However, police did not investigate the case until three years later which someone should really investigate the reasons behind, after receiving an anonymous tip, and Jim Bob Duggar instead took his then-teenage son to meet with a state trooper acquaintance who was later convicted twice on child pornography charges demonstrating Jim Bob really knows how to pick 'em.

“This is really quite different to what you think, or at least that's what I'd like you to think you godless heathens†Gothard said. “It has been overblown, it is not like he is a sexual predator, he was a teenage boy who was a sexual predator. What he did, touching over the clothing, is not nearly what you think it is. It was wrong, but unfortunately there’s a lot of this going on in many ATI/ILPB families today.â€

The Duggars sent the 15-year-old to Little Rock, where he learned carpentry alongside mentor Harold Walker to renovate a former Veterans Administration hospital donated to ILPB by Hobby Lobby.

Gothard said the participants learned about 49 character qualities that ILPB teaches were identified by Jesus, and the teens learned of commands related to each.

“Jesus gave us seven stresses — anger, guilt, lust, business, greed, fear and envy, and there are seven commands that can conquer every one of those stresses,†Gothard explained. “Seven commands that relate to anger, seven that relate to guilt and so on.â€

Gothard said Josh Duggar, who also underwent one-on-one counseling with the “godly†Walker who was not a therapist or psychologist but who needs that when you have Jesus, would have been familiar with those teachings but had no idea how to help a teenage sexual predator, which his family learned through the Advanced Training Institute homeschooling program they followed.

The teachings also promote pseudoscientific claims about these character qualities.

“The endocrine system consists of about 16 or 17 or so glands throughout our body and they are affected by our sexual drive,†Gothard said. “Lust can have a positive or negative affect on the body depending on what it’s for. God designed us to have an attraction to the opposite sex for marriage, but whoremongers ( :wtf: ) will be damaged by their own system.â€

He said the 27-year-old Duggar, who resigned from the anti-LGBT Family Research Council hate group after the molestation was revealed, was no longer a threat to children but no one can really know since he had shit counseling.

“The incident happened 12 years ago, and since then Joshua has lived an honorable life working for a hate group that attempts to take away the rights of LGBT+, that speaks for itself,†Gothard said. “He certainly learned his lesson, and now he will have a whole new respect for young ladies but not enough respect that his daughters won't become sister-moms while his sons are treated like gold.â€

FTFY

[Seven Severn]

Bill Gothard interview with Daily Mail about Josh's "cleansing.

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/09/disgrac ... s_sisters/

Raw story version:

https://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/disgraced-minister-godly-carpentry-work-gave-josh-duggar-a-whole-new-respect-for-young-ladies/

Josh Duggar learned to control his “lust†while doing construction work under a “godly mentor†after admitting to sexually abusing his sisters and another girl, said the disgraced former minister who ran the counseling program.

Bill Gothard, who resigned last year from the Institute of Basic Life Principles he founded over sexual harassment claims against him, described the Christian counseling Duggar, then 15, underwent after his parents learned of the molestation, reported The Daily Mail.

“Once he became a Christian, of course his conscience became even more delicate and he wanted to follow and please the Lord,†Gothard said. “When Josh came back he was a different person.â€

The 81-year-old Gothard said Duggar’s parents – Jim Bob and Michelle – contacted him in 2003, and the former ILPB leader said they followed his recommendation to report the abuse to police.

“Josh acknowledges it, he tells his parents and they tell the sisters and that was the first time they have learned about it,†Gothard said. “Same thing with the babysitter, she didn’t know about it.â€

However, police did not investigate the case until three years later, after receiving an anonymous tip, and Jim Bob Duggar instead took his then-teenage son to meet with a state trooper acquaintance who was later convicted twice on child pornography charges.

“This is really quite different to what you think,†Gothard said. “It has been overblown, it is not like he is a sexual predator, he was a teenage boy. What he did, touching over the clothing, is not nearly what you think it is. It was wrong, but unfortunately there’s a lot of this going on in many families today.â€

The Duggars sent the 15-year-old to Little Rock, where he learned carpentry alongside mentor Harold Walker to renovate a former Veterans Administration hospital donated to ILPB by Hobby Lobby.

Gothard said the participants learned about 49 character qualities that ILPB teaches were identified by Jesus, and the teens learned of commands related to each.

“Jesus gave us seven stresses — anger, guilt, lust, business, greed, fear and envy, and there are seven commands that can conquer every one of those stresses,†Gothard explained. “Seven commands that relate to anger, seven that relate to guilt and so on.â€

Gothard said Josh Duggar, who also underwent one-on-one counseling with the “godly†Walker, would have been familiar with those teachings, which his family learned through the Advanced Training Institute homeschooling program they followed.

The teachings also promote pseudoscientific claims about these character qualities.

“The endocrine system consists of about 16 or 17 or so glands throughout our body and they are affected by our sexual drive,†Gothard said. “Lust can have a positive or negative affect on the body depending on what it’s for. God designed us to have an attraction to the opposite sex for marriage, but whoremongers will be damaged by their own system.â€

He said the 27-year-old Duggar, who resigned from the anti-LGBT Family Research Council after the molestation was revealed, was no longer a threat to children.

“The incident happened 12 years ago, and since then Joshua has lived an honorable life, that speaks for itself,†Gothard said. “He certainly learned his lesson, and now he will have a whole new respect for young ladies.â€

I'd like to know why Boob wasn't good enough to be Josh's "godly mentor"? Seriously, Boob is the household headship/ultimate authority, everyone has to be accountable to him, and god speaks through him and him alone. Other than the obvious, what were Boob's failings that he couldn't mentor his own son?

[DeFrauder]

This endocrine thing....

this is the first time that I have ever heard a "scientific" reason for avoiding premarital sex. I always have heard the spiritual reasons like "your soul is permanently bound to the person you have sex with so it is a bad idea to have sex with more than one person" type of talk.

Does Gothard's endocrine theory have any actual scientific merit? My first instinct is no, but then I remember on Sister Wives when they claimed that kissing before marriage was bad because it stimulated hormones and that turned out to be true.

[Alicja]

This endocrine thing....

this is the first time that I have ever heard a "scientific" reason for avoiding premarital sex. I always have heard the spiritual reasons like "your soul is permanently bound to the person you have sex with so it is a bad idea to have sex with more than one person" type of talk.

Does Gothard's endocrine theory have any actual scientific merit? My first instinct is no, but then I remember on Sister Wives when they claimed that kissing before marriage was bad because it stimulated hormones and that turned out to be true.

I mean, most of the stuff I've read about the effects of sex/orgasms on the body have been good. The only endocrinogical (is that even a word?) downsides to sex would be increased dopaminergic activity which could lead to a sex addiction.

[Cleopatra7]

That's the bigger, more important issue to report. Underage viewing of porn and/or viewing of porn at work in general is not cool, BUT given the choice between those two issues, I think the SIN IN THE CAMP labeling is the bigger issue and more worthy a story.

To me,Josh viewing pornography at work is just another example of his selfishness. The workplace in question could have been in legal trouble for exposing an underage teen to pornography (and given how the Duggars have a problem with the truth, I'm surprised that they didn't go this route). He had no regard for how his irresponsibility might impact his co-workers or boss, just about his immediate gratification. As usual,Josh got daddy to bail him out, thus reinforcing the view that the Duggar image is the most important thing.

[goldfishgoddess]

The Troubling Connection Between Modesty Culture and Rape Culture

From Time Magazine web site.

written by Jennifer Mathieu

July 8, 2015

Jennifer Mathieu is the author of Devoted.

If it’s the responsibility of the woman to keep the man “in check,†then if he crosses the line, doesn’t that suggest she’s at fault?

In my latest young adult novel, Devoted, I write about a 17-year-old girl named Rachel Walker who is being raised in a super conservative, fundamentalist Christian environment. One of 10 kids, Rachel is isolated from the world around her. She’s homeschooled, she can’t watch television, and she’s expected to marry young and have a lot of children herself. And she’s under orders to dress modestly because it’s her responsibility to prevent men from lusting after her.

Now it’s time for a confession: My inspiration for Devoted came from binge-watching way too many episodes of the TLC reality show 19 Kids and Counting, which was recently pulled from TLC’s schedule after oldest son Josh Duggar admitted to molesting several young girls—including his own sisters—when he was a teenager.

Prior to this troubling story, 19 Kids and Counting made headlines mostly because of the sheer size of the Duggar family. As a mother of one son, I started watching the show as a novelty. There are days when it seems I can barely manage to microwave enough chicken nuggets for one kid’s dinner, and I was curious as to how a family that large manages day to day. But I soon realized there was a religious component to the way the Duggars live their lives—and this includes an intense focus on modesty. The Duggar girls dress to cover up bare shoulders and thighs, and they shun traditional swimsuits or other clothes that are considered too revealing. (Of course what’s too revealing seems nebulous here—what makes shoulders not OK but ankles acceptable? Wrists? The back of the neck?)

In their book Growing Up Duggar, the older Duggar girls argue that they’re not ashamed of their bodies—just that they want to keep them for the eyes of their future husbands. As if a woman’s legs, tummy, and breasts serve one purpose only—to turn some dude on. The Duggar girls even write about a special code word—“Nike!â€â€”that they use around their male relatives, warning them to look down at their shoes in case they come too close to a woman who dares to wear a tank top.

In Devoted, Rachel tells of her older sister Faith flipping over magazines in the supermarket checkout to prevent her younger brothers from ogling a woman on the cover of a magazine. As odd as such a lifestyle may seem to those of us raised outside of it, the Duggar way of life is not entirely unique as I learned through my extensive research for the book. In fact, they are just one family in a movement that pushes for rigid gender roles that keep women and girls in their place at home. Quiverfull is, of course, one of a number of communities and religions that have stirred debate over rules and practices that encourage women to cover up.

In order to write Devoted, I spend time interviewing young women raised like the Duggars, and I racked up countless hours reading blogs and books about a lifestyle that seeks to police women’s body in such an extreme way. My mind reeled when I met one young woman who told me she was once ordered by her father to wear her seatbelt underneath her chest—apparently he felt when it cut across her chest, it accentuated her breasts too much and could cause some men to “stumble.â€

The woman I dedicated the book to was raised to follow a checklist distributed by her church. She and other girls in her religious community were told to follow practices including raising their arms in the air every morning in order to make sure their shirts didn’t hike up so much so as to reveal a part of their abdomens. Who knows what a young boy or man might do if he saw a bellybutton.

What I continue to find most disturbing about modesty culture (sometimes called purity culture), especially in light of the recent scandal involving the Duggars, is the link between it and rape culture. If rape culture is defined as a culture that normalizes sexual assault and finds ways to blame said assault on victims, modesty culture is certainly the twin to such disordered thinking. If it’s all the responsibility of the woman to keep the man “in check†through what she wears, then if he crosses the line, doesn’t that suggest she’s at fault somehow? And while young men in such Duggar-like worlds are often taught to keep their lustful thoughts under control, doesn’t such an obsession with this poorly-defined idea of “modesty†make it a little too easy for a man to blame a young woman for leading him on?

While we have no way of knowing how the Duggar daughters felt or how they were counseled after the abuse, materials printed by Advanced Training Institute—an organization the Duggars have aligned themselves with publicly—reveal shockingly terrible advice on how this subculture deals with sexual abuse in the home. In a “case study†that eerily mimics the Duggar family situation, a teenage son molests his younger sisters. The study asks “What factors in the home contributed to immodesty and temptation?†and suggests that the abuser could have been tempted by seeing his younger female siblings getting out of the bath or because the mother did not “push modesty†except for when the family was in public. (It should be noted that Bill Gothard, who ran Advanced Training Institute and its sister organization Institute for Basic Life Principles, was forced to resign in 2014 after allegations he had harassed several female employees.)

Many women and girls who grew up in Duggar-like homes have written eloquently on their experiences with modesty culture and its link to rape culture. The woman I’ve dedicated Devoted to is now free from the oppressive rules of her youth and is working overseas. Many young women like her are speaking out on blogs and forums like Homeschoolers Anonymous and No Longer Quivering, calling out the idea that a woman should cover up according to arbitrary rules set up by male-run churches. 19 Kids and Counting is no longer on television, but even if it returns, I know could never watch it again. After writing Devoted, it just makes me wince.