Josh Duggar, Admitted Child Molester - Part 9

[Alicja]

I heard something this morning that made me think about this case. A guy said, "If man screws up with the judgement of the crime God will correct it." I :D thinking this is Josh's judgement from God. That He was tired of the Duggars using His name for their own glory so he said "Ha ha ha I'm taking it all away" I know they think it's the devil because they don't feel like Josh wasn't judged fairly all those years ago.

Yes!!! I'm not a huge believer in God punishing people for their mistakes on Earth (through natural disasters and the like), but man do I like the sound of that! :pray:

[VelociRapture]

I heard something this morning that made me think about this case. A guy said, "If man screws up with the judgement of the crime God will correct it." I :D thinking this is Josh's judgement from God. That He was tired of the Duggars using His name for their own glory so he said "Ha ha ha I'm taking it all away" I know they think it's the devil because they don't feel like Josh wasn't judged fairly all those years ago.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say you were talking about the whole scandal being revealed to the world - not the fact that it happened in the first place?

Even then though, you would think there would be far far better ways of punishing Josh that didn't have negative or unwanted repercussions for his sisters (like the fact that the public knows now they were sexually assaulted by their brother or the fact that they were sexually assaulted at all).

[grandmadugger]

I'm going to take a wild guess and say you were talking about the whole scandal being revealed to the world - not the fact that it happened in the first place?

Even then though, you would think there would be far far better ways of punishing Josh that didn't have negative or unwanted repercussions for his sisters (like the fact that the public knows now they were sexually assaulted by their brother or the fact that they were sexually assaulted at all).

The whole scandal being revealed and the fall of their empire. I'm not sure there was a way to reveal what happened without revealing the victims. If they weren't famous we wouldn't have a clue who the girls were.

[Mama Mia]

If Josh had been sent to therapy at the outset, when he was first discovered, at 14, he should not have had to pay, as he clearly had a real need for the therapy and his parent should have paid. If he was finally sent when much older, I still think his parents should have paid since they didn't send him before because they are misguided religious zealots. He has/had a true problem and it should have been treated as such. to blame him by making him pay because they delayed the timing of the therapy is not something I personally agree with, because the whole awful mess is JB and M'Chelle's doing, with the whole millions of kids theme and Gothard.

You are missing the entire point of why a parent would have their kid " pay" for therapy, whether payment is directly out of pocket, or paid back through a summer job, or even worked off through chores. Government systems often do the same thing by requiring community service, or sliding scale, but still requiring some sort of participant payment. Even if the true cost of the service itself is highly subsidized.

The point is to help the person - whether they are 14 or 40 - accept the responsibility for their own actions. Seriously, I don't get what's so hard to understand about that? Put it in a more everyday context -- you tell your kid repeatedly not to play baseball near the neighbors window. Kid plays baseball anyway. Breaks window. Parent pays for window replacement, but has the kid do chores to pay it off.

I really think this is just one of the " it's the Duggar's, so it MUST be wrong" scenarios, that no one would find fault with if it was virtually anyone else on the planet ( or at least anyone who you generally agreed with ).

As far as the other post with treatment costs and payments to providers --- in- patient, residential treatment would of course be too expensive for a 14 year old to pay on his own. As someone else stated insurance would might cover a lot of it ( although not necessarily, particularly prior to the ACA ) . But there would still likely be significant share- of- cost. Even with outpatient treatment and counseling it can be EXTREMELY difficult to get mental health costs covered. Even with excellent insurance. There are countless stories of parents trying endlessly to get their kids help with little to no success.

In my experience, once CPS is involved they might give the parents some choice in choosing a therapist -- but generally from a very, very limited pool. And they will have names of who they consider acceptable. Particularly outside of a large city you might be limited to a couple of providers who work with that population and have openings.

$160 for a once a week session ( which may have been partially paid by insurance ) with Josh paying it directly or working it off sounds about right, to me. He wouldn't have had other expenses at the time.

And , frankly, as a parent, and a social worker, I wouldn't have wanted to send my kid to an inpatient treatment center for sex offending youths after that first revelation either. It really is true that kids do learn worse behavior from more hardened teens in juvenile detention facilities. I doubt it would be any different in a treatment center for sex offenders. The first step is usually counseling, often combined with outpatient therapy groups. If no progress is made or things get worse or the kid blows it off - then the intensity of treatment / confinement escalates progressively.

I do think they made a big mistake in not getting counseling at that first incident, and instead seemed to just likely beat the shit out of him.

[jinseng]

Gotta love those Duggar 'safeguards'...

http://41.media.tumblr.com/d34d7609cdbd ... ty_500.png

[VelociRapture]

The whole scandal being revealed and the fall of their empire. I'm not sure there was a way to reveal what happened without revealing the victims. If they weren't famous we wouldn't have a clue who the girls were.

Got it.

I agree - there was really no way not to know who the victims were once the report was released. Too many details that couldn't be redacted by law.

I just have a lot of trouble taking the view that this is divine retribution for the way the Duggars have acted over the years - mostly because there are four innocent victims who were outed because of it (and a fifth unnamed victim who may or may not be forced to relive what happened thanks to the news reports; I blame the Duggar parents and Josh for that though, not the media). To me, divine retribution would have been if the Duggars were found guilty of fraud or if it was revealed that Boob and Mullet loved having kinky threesomes dressed in animal costumes with random people on the internet or something similar - something that directly implicated the parents and not the kids.

(*Note: nothing wrong with kinky animal costume threesomes with internet people - just picked it because it was something so out of the realm of normal for the Duggars) :lol:

[Rescinded and Mended]

I've always figured that this happened to the Duggars because they are entitled and have spent years becoming increasingly bloated with their own sense of self-importance.

Jim Bob and Michelle have believed for a long time now that they don't answer to anyone for their behavior. When you have no sense of shame and don't think you need to be held accountable for the things you do wrong, it stands to reason that you'll eventually do something that offends everyone to the degree that they turn on you en masse.

Pride certainly goeth before a fall.

[MayMay1123]

I thought of something yesterday, pertaining to why its possible that Jana allegedly wasn't molested. You know when you were a small child, you might have believed that kissing made you pregnant? Its probable that Josh didn't have much, if any, sex ed, even at 14. He might have only the extreme basic knowledge that married people do something and it makes babies. Perhaps he was aware that Jana was more "grown" than the other girls, so he didn't touch her for fear of "making her pregnant". Just a theory bopping around in my old lady brain...

[VelociRapture]

I thought of something yesterday, pertaining to why its possible that Jana...

Can we please not have yet another discussion about why Jana was spared on yet another thread? I get that people are curious about why it is that one sister was spared while the others weren't, but come on. The whole situation is fucked up enough without us adding to it and it just strikes me as inappropriate to try and speculate about how a child avoided being molested while others weren't so fortunate.

[FundieFarmer]

Can we please not have yet another discussion about why Jana was spared on yet another thread? I get that people are curious about why it is that one sister was spared while the others weren't, but come on. The whole situation is fucked up enough without us adding to it and it just strikes me as inappropriate to try and speculate about how a child avoided being molested while others weren't so fortunate.

Agreed. I don't think MayMay was in the other thread (don't remember), but it would be nice to have a universal agreement not to discuss it. I think speculating on why is just as distasteful as speculating who.

[GeoBQn]

Thanks, VR. Reading the discussion on the other thread, I was on the verge of being physically ill.

[2manyKidzzz]

You are missing the entire point of why a parent would have their kid " pay" for therapy, whether payment is directly out of pocket, or paid back through a summer job, or even worked off through chores. Government systems often do the same thing by requiring community service, or sliding scale, but still requiring some sort of participant payment. Even if the true cost of the service itself is highly subsidized.

The point is to help the person - whether they are 14 or 40 - accept the responsibility for their own actions. Seriously, I don't get what's so hard to understand about that? Put it in a more everyday context -- you tell your kid repeatedly not to play baseball near the neighbors window. Kid plays baseball anyway. Breaks window. Parent pays for window replacement, but has the kid do chores to pay it off.

I really think this is just one of the " it's the Duggar's, so it MUST be wrong" scenarios, that no one would find fault with if it was virtually anyone else on the planet ( or at least anyone who you generally agreed with ).

As far as the other post with treatment costs and payments to providers --- in- patient, residential treatment would of course be too expensive for a 14 year old to pay on his own. As someone else stated insurance would might cover a lot of it ( although not necessarily, particularly prior to the ACA ) . But there would still likely be significant share- of- cost. Even with outpatient treatment and counseling it can be EXTREMELY difficult to get mental health costs covered. Even with excellent insurance. There are countless stories of parents trying endlessly to get their kids help with little to no success.

In my experience, once CPS is involved they might give the parents some choice in choosing a therapist -- but generally from a very, very limited pool. And they will have names of who they consider acceptable. Particularly outside of a large city you might be limited to a couple of providers who work with that population and have openings.

$160 for a once a week session ( which may have been partially paid by insurance ) with Josh paying it directly or working it off sounds about right, to me. He wouldn't have had other expenses at the time.

And , frankly, as a parent, and a social worker, I wouldn't have wanted to send my kid to an inpatient treatment center for sex offending youths after that first revelation either. It really is true that kids do learn worse behavior from more hardened teens in juvenile detention facilities. I doubt it would be any different in a treatment center for sex offenders. The first step is usually counseling, often combined with outpatient therapy groups. If no progress is made or things get worse or the kid blows it off - then the intensity of treatment / confinement escalates progressively.

I do think they made a big mistake in not getting counseling at that first incident, and instead seemed to just likely beat the shit out of him.

No you are missing MY point. They, by saying Josh "paid for his own counseling" make it sound like they held him accountable....when THEY should have hauled his ass off to counseling when he was 14 without any initial thought as to who would pay. THEY failed and then tried to make themselves look good and Josh accountable by saying he paid for it. It was too late by the time he finally got counseling for paying for it himself to be told publicly as a sort of "saving grace" for them and for Josh.

When 14, the goal should have been only helping someone who clearly had a serious, serious problem. So, years later they said he paid for it? If they had gotten him help initially, maybe he wouldn't have kept it up for 1.5 years, or however long he did. Sure, when he was 17 he could help pay, but they are so very wrong for the entire way they handled their 14 year old son's serious problem. Their comments on paying for it were to try to make themselves look good.

At 14, Josh deserved serious help, and who paid for it should not have been an issue. This was not hot wiring cars or smoking dope.

[MayMay1123]

Thanks, VR. Reading the discussion on the other thread, I was on the verge of being physically ill.

Not sure about which other thread, but I apologize for upsetting people. What I wrote was just something that I was thinking about after my little granddaughter was saying that she thought God put the babies in the mommies and that they came out their mouths...going to get her parents to do a little education there. Again, I'm sorry...

[VelociRapture]

Not sure about which other thread, but I apologize for upsetting people. What I wrote was just something that I was thinking about after my little granddaughter was saying that she thought God put the babies in the mommies and that they came out their mouths...going to get her parents to do a little education there. Again, I'm sorry...

I figured you didn't know about the other threads. For whatever reason, that seems to be the latest topic of interest for some posters and the conversation can easily veer off into questionable territory.

And yeah, definitely talk to her parents about that. Its adorable she thinks that, but still a good idea to have them talk with her. :lol:

[HereticHick]

Was just reading "The Hill" newspapers just released "Most Beautiful" list of DC political folk for 2015, and noticed this FRC employee:

http://thehill.com/50-most-beautiful/20 ... e-jennings

Josh was so out of his league at FRC. I still think that they would have let him go in a year or two, even without the scandal.

[SassyPants]

Was just reading "The Hill" newspapers just released "Most Beautiful" list of DC political folk for 2015, and noticed this FRC employee:

http://thehill.com/50-most-beautiful/20 ... e-jennings

Josh was so out of his league at FRC. I still think that they would have let him go in a year or two, even without the scandal.

The Duggar parents did such a crappy job- first in what they "trained" and second in what they "role modeled."

Without basic information, isolatation and role model basic sloth and grifting.

They are ALL hosed, unless they walk away from Duggarville.

[ShepherdontheRock]

Was just reading "The Hill" newspapers just released "Most Beautiful" list of DC political folk for 2015, and noticed this FRC employee:

http://thehill.com/50-most-beautiful/20 ... e-jennings

Josh was so out of his league at FRC. I still think that they would have let him go in a year or two, even without the scandal.

Or whenever people stopped caring about them.

[DeFrauder]

I am not from the US, so do not know therapy prices. Is $160 an hour high/average/low?

The minimum wage in Arkansas is currently $7.50 per hour. It would cost a lot for an average person to pay for therapy. If they have serious issues, it is doubtful they could pay for adequate therapy.

[DeFrauder]

I thought you guys would be more excited about what the therapist had to say about relying on the Holy Spirit to treat his patients.

I am implying the therapist is not up to the task due to crazy.

Do you know where I found him? I had googled about where you were supposed to get treatment for juvenile sex offending in Arkansas. He was linked to a page that suggested treatment options. Right underneath the link to Piney Ridge.

Josh didn't even get Holy Spirit guy. He got Harold Walker.

[Hera]

You don't make a child pay for their own therapy. You make them pay for breaking stuff. You make them pay fines if they get caught doing something and fined. Hell, maybe even make them pay you back for their lawyer, etc., if they get caught doing some stupid kid crap that involves the legal system. Fair enough. Payment is a punishment; acceptance of responsibility. However, therapy is medical treatment. It's treatment for some emotional or psychological issue, as opposed to, say, a broken bone issue. Unless you'd make your kid pay for the doctor's visit to get his broken arm set, you don't make him pay to get his emotional or psychological issues taken care of, either.

It's disgusting that 14-year old Josh repeatedly went to his parents for help, they ignored him, and later made him pay for his own therapy to theoretically treat the underlying psychological or emotional issue that prompted the behavior in the first place.

[Snarkylark]

^good point. I imagine that was their response to feeling helpless and as a way to punish Josh for what he did, knowing it was wrong. And yet another reason why having 19 kids is a bad idea....they probably couldn't AFFORD therapy!

[wotdancer]

^good point. I imagine that was their response to feeling helpless and as a way to punish Josh for what he did, knowing it was wrong. And yet another reason why having 19 kids is a bad idea....they probably couldn't AFFORD therapy!

This is definitely possible, though the therapist I saw for awhile told me that patients who pay for their therapy sessions tend to be more emotionally/psychologically invested (pardon the pun)...I had the option of paying or not, but did pay a little because of that advice.

[Snarkylark]

I totally get that. I just think the Duggars couldn't afford it so they made josh pay.

[FundieFarmer]

If the Duggars have insurance, which I believe they do, they would be able to pay for it if they were to find a provider in-network. Even so, I think they could afford it. If not, there are free Christian counseling services all over that would be particularly amenable to them. I think they were just trying to teach him to take responsibility, and I'm fine with that.

[Snarkylark]

If the Duggars have insurance, which I believe they do, they would be able to pay for it if they were to find a provider in-network. Even so, I think they could afford it. If not, there are free Christian counseling services all over that would be particularly amenable to them. I think they were just trying to teach him to take responsibility, and I'm fine with that.

Sure, NOW they could afford it but do you think that was the case at the time it happened with 15? children? I thought it was mentioned that they didn't have "traditional" health insurance at that time and some plans don't cover counseling or much in the way of mental health services.