Jessa Duggar Seewald is Pregnant - Part 3

[ClaraOswin]

Granted it was almost 15 years ago, but I literally had one ultrasound with my son, right before I delivered, just to make sure he was positioned ok.

I had no indications of anything else, and he and I were both healthy (aside from my bp issues) so I don't get the ZOMG ULTRASOUNDS FOR EVERYBODY mindset. He had meconium in his waters and they still let me labor normally and just monitored him closely, so I sort of rolled my eyes when everybody claimed that Jill LIED about her birth story lol.

A friend of mine had a daughter born with some fairly severe birth defects in her legs/feet, and they had regular ultrasounds and never caught it.

I feel a bit like a broken record. The anatomy scan is important because it CAN catch many defects. Many of which need immediate attention after the baby is born. That is why it's an important scan. Is it going to catch everything every single time? Of course not. But obviously you're more likely to catch something with a scan than without. I cannot understand why anyone would forego something that could potentially save your baby's life.

[twinmama]

I feel a bit like a broken record. The anatomy scan is important because it CAN catch many defects. Many of which need immediate attention after the baby is born. That is why it's an important scan. Is it going to catch everything every single time? Of course not. But obviously you're more likely to catch something with a scan than without. I cannot understand why anyone would forego something that could potentially save your baby's life.

I think some of the less educated pro lifers think ultrasounds = looking for reasons to abort. I have read so many people saying they would never abort no matter the issue so they don't need ultrasounds. They don't seem to realize that you can use whatever info you get to prepare for a child with special needs, or to have a surgery team waiting at the birth to help the child live.

[Full enough quiver]

Not trying to start a debate, or go all Jenny McCarthy here, but I believe that it is possible that the widespread use of ultrasound/DopplerI may have something to do with the massive increase in autism. (I'm sure that there are many things that could be contributing, from better/earlier diagnosing to chemicals in food). I have zero proof of this, it just seems like the increase happened around the same time that ultrasound became more widely used. I know correlation does not equal causation, but it worried me enough that I wanted to be very careful about how many I had. I could see how, in susceptible individuals, all those sound waves could alter something in the very delicate balance of the body. For me, the benefits outweighed the risks, and I got the 20 week scan, but I skipped the dating scan, and the Doppler. Maybe Jessa just wants to keep it very minimally invasive. I know I got minimal prenatal care, by my own choice. Ps. I do vaccinate. Another risk/benefits thing.

[Rajah061014]

Not trying to start a debate, or go all Jenny McCarthy here, but I believe that it is possible that the widespread use of ultrasound/DopplerI may have something to do with the massive increase in autism. (I'm sure that there are many things that could be contributing, from better/earlier diagnosing to chemicals in food). I have zero proof of this, it just seems like the increase happened around the same time that ultrasound became more widely used. I know correlation does not equal causation, but it worried me enough that I wanted to be very careful about how many I had. I could see how, in susceptible individuals, all those sound waves could alter something in the very delicate balance of the body. For me, the benefits outweighed the risks, and I got the 20 week scan, but I skipped the dating scan, and the Doppler. Maybe Jessa just wants to keep it very minimally invasive. I know I got minimal prenatal care, by my own choice. Ps. I do vaccinate. Another risk/benefits thing.

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

No. No. Please don't go there. For one, ultrasounds have been around for decades. Also, many people argue that the so-called "increase" in autism is actually just better awareness and diagnosis as compared to in the past.

And yeah, you totally went all Jenny McCarthy there.

[Hera]

Oof! Correlation =/= Causation.

[DaisyD]

She JUST said she knows correlation foes not equal causation.

I think keeping anything in life to moderation is a good plan. That's my mantra anyway.

[twinmama]

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

No. No. Please don't go there. For one, ultrasounds have been around for decades. Also, many people argue that the so-called "increase" in autism is actually just better awareness and diagnosis as compared to in the past.

And yeah, you totally went all Jenny McCarthy there.

At least Susie Internet Lady rejecting ultrasounds and dopplers won't affect my kids! Unlike the crazy antivaxxers. So if you wanna believe, go for it. You're only (potentially) hurting your own kids with this one.

[JenniferJuniper]

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

No. No. Please don't go there. For one, ultrasounds have been around for decades. Also, many people argue that the so-called "increase" in autism is actually just better awareness and diagnosis as compared to in the past.

And yeah, you totally went all Jenny McCarthy there.

Yeah, no, just don't.

The increase in autism diagnoses is likely related in large part to greater awareness.

When I was a kid, kids who demonstrated autism-like symptoms were either considered weird or, in more severe cases, mentally impaired. My uncle is 78 years old and if he isn't on the spectrum, I'll eat my hat. But he's functional and has never been diagnosed with anything.

No need to speculate about random stuff being the case without any evidence whatsoever to support it.

[ClaraOswin]

I think some of the less educated pro lifers think ultrasounds = looking for reasons to abort. I have read so many people saying they would never abort no matter the issue so they don't need ultrasounds. They don't seem to realize that you can use whatever info you get to prepare for a child with special needs, or to have a surgery team waiting at the birth to help the child live.

Exactly. It is yet another way their "education" and upbringing has failed them. Everything is so black and white to these people. It's really sad. I am, by all accounts, pro-life. And to me...that means it's important that I do everything I can for my unborn child. There are some things that are debatable when it comes to whether or not they are necessary for prenatal care. But I just don't think avoiding 1 anatomy scan is one of those things. At this time, there is no evidence that ONE ultrasound is going to harm your baby. We don't know if excessive ultrasounds could hurt though so I can see avoiding that. But just ONE? With current evidence, there is little to no risk. And as someone else mentioned, the benefits definitely outweigh any possible risk at this point.

She JUST said she knows correlation foes not equal causation.

I think keeping anything in life to moderation is a good plan. That's my mantra anyway.

This is how I think of things too. But there are so many all or nothing people. Drives me crazy.

Oh...and the autism thing? I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole.

[Evilbad]

I didn't intentionally forego anything; at the time that was the standard of maternity care in military hospitals.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

No, no, no. The rise in the number of reality TV Shows is what has led to the increase of autism. Think about it guys, reality TV has really taken off in the past 10 years. Either that or it is the increase of yogurt-eaating. I always get those 2 things mixed-up. Well, we are all watching a lot more reality TV AND eating more yogurt so better safe than sorry. I switched to frozen yogurt when my daughter was being hatched and she turned out just fine!

[ClaraOswin]

I didn't intentionally forego anything; at the time that was the standard of maternity care in military hospitals.

I am talking more about these people like the Duggars who get almost no prenatal care from the sounds of it. They just place it all in "God's hands" or whatever. Pretty irresponsible to me. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt that she'll still be getting one in the near future but who knows with these people.

In some ways, I wish the show would continue in some form just because I would be curious to see how Jessa would handle the whole pregnancy/birth process. I was also wondering just how much she'd let the cameras in on.

[Evilbad]

I read a lot of VC andrews when pregnant. I have no idea why, but I did. Maybe that's what gave my son his autism.

VC ANDREWS CAUSES AUTISM YOU GUYS.

[ClaraOswin]

I read a lot of VC andrews when pregnant. I have no idea why, but I did. Maybe that's what gave my son his autism.

VC ANDREWS CAUSES AUTISM YOU GUYS.

My son is almost 2 and doesn't talk. I think it's from all of kiwi and blood oranges I ate while pregnant. If only I'd stuck to strawberries and regular oranges, I bet he'd be talking in complete sentences by now.

[SassyPants]

I am talking more about these people like the Duggars who get almost no prenatal care from the sounds of it. They just place it all in "God's hands" or whatever. Pretty irresponsible to me. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt that she'll still be getting one in the near future but who knows with these people.

In some ways, I wish the show would continue in some form just because I would be curious to see how Jessa would handle the whole pregnancy/birth process. I was also wondering just how much she'd let the cameras in on.

I always thought that Anna was very lucky with her outcomes, very lucky.

Since we've really seen the Duggars in action, Michelle has always had full on maternity care- no fake MWs or home deliveries for her in many, many years (20).

Jill obviously had issues.

Jessa will probably end having a hospital birth too.

These folks are all about control. Labor and delivery takes control away from a whole lot of people.

[lookinggoodforjesus]

Why are there always strange conspiracy theories around the rise of certain diseases?

Autism, cancer, celiac disease.... I hope people realize that our ability to diagnose these diseases has increased greatly in the past 20 years. We can actually accurately diagnose them now (a lot of the time) and fast. And we can diagnose them far earlier than we could before. In 2015 people are very conscious of their health. They like labels for things. If a doctor said to someone "you have bad knees" the person would respond with "do I have osteoarthritis? Rheumatoid arthritis? I want an X-ray". I'm using that example to mean that if someone's child is a little off, the parent's are all over it and taking the kid to specialists. A parent is not satisfied with "he's just talking a bit late". From my understanding, this is a relatively new phenomenon. Even thirty years ago, if someone's child was a bit off, it would be a source of embarrassment and the child would most likely not receive any care. But now, we want a diagnosis, and we push and we get one. I mean, my gosh -- people feel a tad dizzy one day and they go to the doctor requesting an MRI to rule out a brain tumour. People don't let health issues go undetected these days (except they still come to walk-in clinics for strokes..?). THAT is why the rates of these illnesses are going up. But there is nothing wrong with that. People should be more informed about their health.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Hopefully Jessa will be more sensible and rational when it comes to her choices of how she delivers her baby. She seems like she has way more common sense than Jill does, and wouldn't do something stupid like trust an unqualified midwife to deliver, or not go to the hospital if things seem wrong.

[mango_fandango]

Why are there always strange conspiracy theories around the rise of certain diseases?

Autism, cancer, celiac disease.... I hope people realize that our ability to diagnose these diseases has increased greatly in the past 20 years. We can actually accurately diagnose them now (a lot of the time) and fast. And we can diagnose them far earlier than we could before. In 2015 people are very conscious of their health. They like labels for things. If a doctor said to someone "you have bad knees" the person would respond with "do I have osteoarthritis? Rheumatoid arthritis? I want an X-ray". I'm using that example to mean that if someone's child is a little off, the parent's are all over it and taking the kid to specialists. A parent is not satisfied with "he's just talking a bit late". From my understanding, this is a relatively new phenomenon. Even thirty years ago, if someone's child was a bit off, it would be a source of embarrassment and the child would most likely not receive any care. But now, we want a diagnosis, and we push and we get one. I mean, my gosh -- people feel a tad dizzy one day and they go to the doctor requesting an MRI to rule out a brain tumour. People don't let health issues go undetected these days (except they still come to walk-in clinics for strokes..?). THAT is why the rates of these illnesses are going up. But there is nothing wrong with that. People should be more informed about their health.

It's like when you read an article about autism/Asperger's (which I know technically isn't a diagnosis anymore) and you get the commenters going "oh autism isn't real it's just an excuse for bad parenting" errr NO. The reason kids with autism act out is because they're frustrated, because they can't communicate properly. I was reading a book about a woman who got diagnosed with Asperger's at 42. She talked about when she was a kid, she was just regarded as weird/shy/etc. Back in the 70s/80s, the only kids who got diagnosed with autism were non-verbal, when nowadays we realise it's a whole spectrum, going from the nonverbal to the high-functioning. I tick a fair few Aspie traits, but not enough to warrant a full diagnosis. But, as someone said somewhere (in some website about autism/asperger's), literally everyone ticks SOME traits.

[SassyPants]

Why are there always strange conspiracy theories around the rise of certain diseases?

Autism, cancer, celiac disease.... I hope people realize that our ability to diagnose these diseases has increased greatly in the past 20 years. We can actually accurately diagnose them now (a lot of the time) and fast. And we can diagnose them far earlier than we could before. In 2015 people are very conscious of their health. They like labels for things. If a doctor said to someone "you have bad knees" the person would respond with "do I have osteoarthritis? Rheumatoid arthritis? I want an X-ray". I'm using that example to mean that if someone's child is a little off, the parent's are all over it and taking the kid to specialists. A parent is not satisfied with "he's just talking a bit late". From my understanding, this is a relatively new phenomenon. Even thirty years ago, if someone's child was a bit off, it would be a source of embarrassment and the child would most likely not receive any care. But now, we want a diagnosis, and we push and we get one. I mean, my gosh -- people feel a tad dizzy one day and they go to the doctor requesting an MRI to rule out a brain tumour. People don't let health issues go undetected these days (except they still come to walk-in clinics for strokes..?). THAT is why the rates of these illnesses are going up. But there is nothing wrong with that. People should be more informed about their health.

Also the change in pharmaceutical advertising and the public's bombardment with ads-

Big Pharm is big business. Pharm and Insurance are in bed with one another- Diagnosis= $$$$$$

In previous decades, an acceptable blood glucose level was 130, now it's less than 100. Easy way to get people on meds is to drop the acceptable limit level and make a diagnosis.

In terms of spectrum diseases, I am sure we ALL fall somewhere on the spectrum.

[chelleinchicago]

I always thought that Anna was very lucky with her outcomes, very lucky.

Since we've really seen the Duggars in action, Michelle has always had full on maternity care- no fake MWs or home deliveries for her in many, many years (20).

Jill obviously had issues.

Jessa will probably end having a hospital birth too.

These folks are all about control. Labor and delivery takes control away from a whole lot of people.

Because you never know who the people in those God-less hospitals really are. They could have hidden agendas.

[ClaraOswin]

I thought Michelle did have an least one home birth. Or did I imagine that?

ETA - Okay, a quick google search and I see Jinger and Joseph were both home births. It mentions a midwife and doctor being present, at least for Jinger. I guess I've never heard of doctors going to houses for home births. Weird.

In my state, I'm pretty sure the law states that medical professionals can't assist at home births. Not even midwives, I don't think.

[SassyPants]

I thought Michelle did have an least one home birth. Or did I imagine that?

ETA - Okay, a quick google search and I see Jinger and Joseph were both home births. It mentions a midwife and doctor being present, at least for Jinger. I guess I've never heard of doctors going to houses for home births. Weird.

In my state, I'm pretty sure the law states that medical professionals can't assist at home births. Not even midwives, I don't think.

Jinger and Joseph, kids 6 and 7 were home births...which coincidentally came right after Michelle defaulted on her 1992 hospital bill, IIRC.

20 years -

[JenniferJuniper]

Why are there always strange conspiracy theories around the rise of certain diseases?

Autism, cancer, celiac disease.... I hope people realize that our ability to diagnose these diseases has increased greatly in the past 20 years. We can actually accurately diagnose them now (a lot of the time) and fast. And we can diagnose them far earlier than we could before. In 2015 people are very conscious of their health. They like labels for things. If a doctor said to someone "you have bad knees" the person would respond with "do I have osteoarthritis? Rheumatoid arthritis? I want an X-ray". I'm using that example to mean that if someone's child is a little off, the parent's are all over it and taking the kid to specialists. A parent is not satisfied with "he's just talking a bit late". From my understanding, this is a relatively new phenomenon. Even thirty years ago, if someone's child was a bit off, it would be a source of embarrassment and the child would most likely not receive any care. But now, we want a diagnosis, and we push and we get one. I mean, my gosh -- people feel a tad dizzy one day and they go to the doctor requesting an MRI to rule out a brain tumour. People don't let health issues go undetected these days (except they still come to walk-in clinics for strokes..?). THAT is why the rates of these illnesses are going up. But there is nothing wrong with that. People should be more informed about their health.

Breast cancer is one of the more obvious examples. I read a headline on CNN a couple of weeks ago "Breast Cancer Rates Expected to Double in Next 10 Years."

Er, no. The rate of breast cancer isn't what's changing. The ability to detect tiny cancer cells is constantly improving. (whether that's totally a good thing is questionable as actual death rates remain stable and over-diagnosis is a real concern, but that's another topic for another day).

Looking back, I knew autistic kids growing up. But no one ever said the word. First I heard of it was my Psych class in high school circa 1980. The text book said autistic children tend to be particularly beautiful. Which I thought was a bit odd.

[thuffrn]

I won't touch that vaccination mess with a ten foot poll.

I will say, however, as a mom to an Aspie (my 21 y.o. DS) and a severely autistic (my 20 y.o. DD) that my experiences with ultrasound was opposite of what has been talked about.

With DS, I had 10 ultrasounds, with DD, I only had 1. With my other 2 neurotypical kids, I had the average 2 or 3. For over 20 years now I have read reports that range from sane and sensible, to outside the box, to some downright crazy shit. I even got to experience the nasty looks of a few DRs who questioned my parenting or lack of affection to my children. Twenty years ago, there was still a decent amount of "specialists" who blamed the mother.

I don't know that I have anymore answers today for the question of WHY? But I think that the current generation is receiving the best therapies that kids on the spectrum have ever gotten. I sometimes think that they were throwing stuff at the walls to see what would stick in terms of therapy.

Just some words from a Mom of autism " vets".

(When my kids were little, people didn't know what autism was. They always thought they were "like Rainman" :lol: )

[drivingmishcrazy]

omg - I thought Sassy was kidding about Jill delivering Jessa's daughter :D

I think it's a girl

I sure as hell hope Jill is not Jessa's medical provider

Do we know for sure that jessa doesn't have an actual doctor

nst, you crack me up.