Arkansas Midwife Loses License - Mother Speaks Out Merged

[halcionne]

I've never heard that nonsense before. Stress has nothing to do with her birth experience. She's an idiot for sure but just because she might or might not be a high stress person didn't effect how Izzy arrived.

ETA as someone with a huge dental phobia back off Jill for that. (I can't believe I'm defending her but I'm tired of this always being brought up.) I personally know it's completely irrational yet I hyperventilate thinking about the dentist. It doesn't mean she is a baby and can't handle pain. Now if she flrips out over an IV in the hospital then maybe we can snark on her but until then I'll cut her slack.

I have a dentist phobia, too. I was trying to be clear that my comments about Jill's oral surgery were coming from a place of not liking Jill; I'm quite biased in that regard. ;) I'm also a pretty good whiner. :lol:

[sunnyfunnyfarm]

Stress has everything to do with birth experience. Even animals in nature can slow or interrupt labor to get to a safe place if they feel stressed or endangered. If a woman doesn't feel safe, labor will be more difficult, could stall and become dangerous. And if Jill is afraid of pain and the unknown, of course that played into her labor experience.

It doesn't mean dental phobia makes you an irrational person.

I agree, of course stress will impact labor and the birth process.

And I cut Jill lots of slack. She had to be feeling so much pressure. Her whole life has been made to be an example of doing things the right and Christian way. She seems opinionated, but given the very restrictive environment she's grown up in, she really doesn't have many choices, even in how she labors and births her babies - at least not choices that won't cause conflict within her family. Add in the camera crew and knowing that her actions will be critiqued to no end, and she was really almost set up to fail.

[SassyPants]

Maybe she can use this entire process as a learning and growth experience?

[PennySycamore]

Maybe she can use this entire process as a learning and growth experience?

I hope so, SassyPants. I really do hope so.

[iknowright]

The thing is you can't "will" yourself or "make" yourself high pain tolerance. It is really a genetic thing. For some women, they may have the least stressful lives and events going on surrounding their labors. That doesn't mean that their pain tolerance will increase. My poor friend's daughter had been told if she only ate the right kinds of foods, did the proper exercises, proper breathing techniques, all kinds of laboring in water, correct massages, blah blah blah, she would be able to have a smoother and quicker labor. She did it all. Guess what? She had no paint tolerance - just like her mother and aunts and NEEDED the help of an epidural which sped up her labor since she finally couldn't feel the intense pain. I've talked to plenty of L&D people who say this happens to so many women and that it is false an epidural slows labor down.

I'm sure Jill probably felt like a failure since she did all that she had been "trained" to do. That baby had a serious likelihood of going into distress and lay midwifery didn't teach Jill that going way overdue, the chances of a long labor are higher and fetal distress definitely can be much more likely with a long labor.

[grandmadugger]

Anyone know what this means?

A Mommy's Butterfly Midwifery

April 29 at 6:24pm ·

We need an EARLY 1/2 price for Rhea Lana tomorrow ... Help?

[halcionne]

Anyone know what this means?

A Mommy's Butterfly Midwifery

April 29 at 6:24pm ·

We need an EARLY 1/2 price for Rhea Lana tomorrow ... Help?

I don't know what it means, but I googled Rhea Lana and it's a children's consignment shop.

[FJismyheadship]

Rhea Lana's is a Children's Consignment event. It goes to Hot Springs, Little Rock, Fayetteville and a couple other locations twice a year.

There are early tickets that will let you in a day early, to get your pick. Usually these come from the Pediatricians offices and the OB and other child centric places.

However, I have never heard of an early half price day. Half price day is the last day or two when they are.trying to get rid of everything.

[lilah]

I have to wonder if Jill would have been better off doing pic in and an epidural after 70 hours of labor. I think she was so obsessed with having the correct kind of natural birth experience she couldnot see that she needed some interventions to progress her labor. I'm attempting to have a natural birth with a midwife but I'm not going to be a mommy matyr if I need interventions.

[ClaraOswin]

I'm wondering if we'll see Venessa in the background or anything in this week's birth episode.

[SassyPants]

I have to wonder if Jill would have been better off doing pic in and an epidural after 70 hours of labor. I think she was so obsessed with having the correct kind of natural birth experience she couldnot see that she needed some interventions to progress her labor. I'm attempting to have a natural birth with a midwife but I'm not going to be a mommy matyr if I need interventions.

Jill is brainwashed. She has a very difficult time (and may actually be unable to) making decisions outside "her" box.

IMO, she never even considered that she would not get the exact birth experience that she longed for. It's weird because Jill seems to have gleaned nothing from Michelle's last couple of pregnancies and birthing experiences.

I notice that Jessa is already saying that she has a plan but realizes that her plan may not happen. I think she has learned a few things from Jill's approach and is definetly doing things her own way.

[halcionne]

Question: Is there a licensing board for CNMs? How does one go about checking someone's credentials (in AR, specifically) if they're not registered as a lay midwife?

[slickcat79]

Jill is brainwashed. She has a very difficult time (and may actually be unable to) making decisions outside "her" box.

IMO, she never even considered that she would not get the exact birth experience that she longed for. It's weird because Jill seems to have gleaned nothing from Michelle's last couple of pregnancies and birthing experiences.

I notice that Jessa is already saying that she has a plan but realizes that her plan may not happen. I think she has learned a few things from Jill's approach and is definetly doing things her own way.

Right? And why would she think otherwise, really? Doing everything "right" has gotten her everything she wanted in life thus far. Playing nice with mommy and daddy got her marriage to an actual adult man with a real job who shares real feelings with her, and a big fancy house that outshines anything her siblings have gotten. She was allowed to "train" for a "career" that is legitimately accepted and respected among her peers, and it even got her out of some of the more annoying family activities. She got knocked up immediately after marriage and had a successful and healthy pregnancy.

Considering that she's likely had "trust birth!" and "God designed your body for childbirth" drummed into her for years, how could she not believe the charmed life would continue? I doubt Michelle's experiences would register that much. After all, Jill was there for some of her mother's less eventful births as well, and Michelle even had VBACs at home. Hopefully Jill's next experience is less stressful and more like what she wanted, but with an extra dose of reality. Because I think we can be absolutely sure there will be a next time.

[16strong]

I, too think Jill is naive. She's lived her whole life as the golden child, exposed to only a Disney-esque picture of the world. I think she truly believes that as long as she is the definition of her community's idea of Godly, God will reward her with everything her community says she should have.

Right now, I think Jill is in denial, because she just can't comprehend that she (the Godliest daughter ever) could ever be anything less than blessed in the highest. After all, (in her mind) she's done everything right. It may yet take a second complicated birth to make her understand that she isn't the center of gravity, and God doesn't always reward his followers, sometimes he tests.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I, too think Jill is naive. She's lived her whole life as the golden child, exposed to only a Disney-esque picture of the world. I think she truly believes that as long as she is the definition of her community's idea of Godly, God will reward her with everything her community says she should have.

Right now, I think Jill is in denial, because she just can't comprehend that she (the Godliest daughter ever) could ever be anything less than blessed in the highest. After all, (in her mind) she's done everything right. It may yet take a second complicated birth to make her understand that she isn't the center of gravity, and God doesn't always reward his followers, sometimes he tests.

I wonder what Jill will do if Jessa has the quickest, easiest natural delivery ever, exactly on her due date, despite the fact that Jill has the ultimate keep sweet personality that all fundies want to be and Jessa is the moody, snarky one who does not act submissive enough.

[SassyPants]

I wonder what Jill will do if Jessa has the quickest, easiest natural delivery ever, exactly on her due date, despite the fact that Jill has the ultimate keep sweet personality that all fundies want to be and Jessa is the moody, snarky one who does not act submissive enough.

I will not be surprised if this happens.

[Georgiana]

I, too think Jill is naive. She's lived her whole life as the golden child, exposed to only a Disney-esque picture of the world. I think she truly believes that as long as she is the definition of her community's idea of Godly, God will reward her with everything her community says she should have.

Right now, I think Jill is in denial, because she just can't comprehend that she (the Godliest daughter ever) could ever be anything less than blessed in the highest. After all, (in her mind) she's done everything right. It may yet take a second complicated birth to make her understand that she isn't the center of gravity, and God doesn't always reward his followers, sometimes he tests.

I agree. Also, she's been such a sheltered kidult that I don't think she's had the experiences to understand that things happen and you aren't invincible.

In many ways, I think she's mentally more of a teenager than an adult. This is her first time being somewhat independent and making her own decisions, and with that comes having to actually experience fall out from mistakes, consequences of actions, and unexpected complications. She's now experiencing things that most of us experience between 14-20, because that's when most of us receive an increased independence from our parents/family that Jill never got.

At 16 or 18, many of us probably would have acted like Jill and naively assumed that complications are things that happen to other, less godly or older people. I cannot begin to count the stupid things I did when I was young because I assumed that things would only happen to other people and never to me.

By Jill's age, most of us have had enough experience to know that we are not invincible and things WILL happen to us just like they happen to others. We've learned to be more cautious and more flexible. We take things more in stride because we haven't put all our emotional eggs in one basket. We've gained this approach from experience and the experiences of those close to us.

Jill has no experience to teach her to be cautious or to suggest she should emotionally/mentally be ready for things to go wrong. It's not Jill's fault: the lifestyle raises giant kids because it does not allow kids to transition into adults by gaining experience or making mistakes. So now, Jill has to make the transition late and pack what should have been years of transition and learning into a very short time-frame.

I don't envy these girls one bit.

[August]

I am a homebirth skeptic. Unless it is supervised by an OB I think it is terribly dangerous. A friend of mine was having one and had some complications and her midwife tried to dissuade her from going to the nearby hospital (5 min away) to go to a hospital the midwife liked (30 min away). She had to get a c-section so thank goodness she ignored the stupid midwife. After her experience she is never homebirthing again. (Her choice)

Also frightening: the free birthing movement...birthing all by yourself without a midwife. Scary! I mean unless you accidentally go into labor quickly and pop the kid out on the toilet or in the living room that is one thing but all the problems that can happen if you plan to be all alone... Even if everything goes well who is going to sew your perineal tears if you have any? :(

My skepticism of midwives (not CNMs) grew when a woman came to my house to pick up maternity books I was free cycling as part of her education as a midwife. These were not textbooks just some crappy pregnancy books. The educational standards/lack thereof for lay midwives is frightening.

They either just leave them or send someone down with a tube of superglue. Some who go the just leave it route spend a week keeping their legs together, others just do whatever. Yes, really. And yes, it often doesn't heal back together.

[Imrlgoddess]

Please forgive me if this has already been found and posted, I'd been keeping up with the thread but got sidetracked by finals...I haven't read all of the most recent pages. I searched for license Arkansas midwives and found a government listing. The woman in question is not listed as of March of this year, neither are the two Duggar girls. Either her license was revoked or she never registered with the state. I also searched the Arkansas Sec. of State website and didn't find her business name listed as a legal entity.

healthy.arkansas.gov/programsServices/familyHealth/WomensHealth/Pages/LayMidwifery.aspx

[Bethella]

Please forgive me if this has already been found and posted, I'd been keeping up with the thread but got sidetracked by finals...I haven't read all of the most recent pages. I searched for license Arkansas midwives and found a government listing. The woman in question is not listed as of March of this year, neither are the two Duggar girls. Either her license was revoked or she never registered with the state. I also searched the Arkansas Sec. of State website and didn't find her business name listed as a legal entity.

healthy.arkansas.gov/programsServices/familyHealth/WomensHealth/Pages/LayMidwifery.aspx

She was licensed with the state on the previous versions of that list (I think the last one before March 2015 had been posted in August or September 2014, definitely sometime last fall). Same with the Duggar girls, they had been listed as apprentices for the last 3 years. Their apprentice permits were due to expire at the end of August 2015, so something happened for them to be removed from the list early.

[lookinggoodforjesus]

She was licensed with the state on the previous versions of that list (I think the last one before March 2015 had been posted in August or September 2014, definitely sometime last fall). Same with the Duggar girls, they had been listed as apprentices for the last 3 years. Their apprentice permits were due to expire at the end of August 2015, so something happened for them to be removed from the list early.

The midwife they were apprenticing under had her license revoked, which nullified their apprenticeships. I'm still curious as to how Jill feels about that. She's now an EX lay midwife apprentice.

[PennySycamore]

Question: Is there a licensing board for CNMs? How does one go about checking someone's credentials (in AR, specifically) if they're not registered as a lay midwife?

Yep, there's is definitely a licensing board for CNMs. If a lay midwife isn't registered, ther's not an easy way to check their credentials. You could ask and then check that, I suppose, but there would be no list to rather easily check.

[lovemygsp]

Yep, there's is definitely a licensing board for CNMs. If a lay midwife isn't registered, ther's not an easy way to check their credentials. You could ask and then check that, I suppose, but there would be no list to rather easily check.

To clarify because it irks me that the likes of Jill and this wanna be midwife are lumped together with others who have real training..... A lay midwife (or CPM) is NOT = a CNM. CNM stands for certified nurse midwife, a nurse who trained in midwifery. I have no reservations about going to a CNM and did so until I experienced complications. I wouldn't let a lay midwife near me.

CNMs have nursing degrees and have to pass all nursing exams and do hold licenses. LPMs aren't even recognized in some states and thankfully some are starting to ban anyone who isn't a CNM. Some states don't track and others like AR do. It's all such a muddled up situation that needs regulation. I personally think everyone but CNMs should be banned from practicing.

[sunnyfunnyfarm]

To clarify because it irks me that the likes of Jill and this wanna be midwife are lumped together with others who have real training..... A lay midwife (or CPM) is NOT = a CNM. CNM stands for certified nurse midwife, a nurse who trained in midwifery. I have no reservations about going to a CNM and did so until I experienced complications. I wouldn't let a lay midwife near me.

CNMs have nursing degrees and have to pass all nursing exams and do hold licenses. LPMs aren't even recognized in some states and thankfully some are starting to ban anyone who isn't a CNM. Some states don't track and others like AR do. It's all such a muddled up situation that needs regulation. I personally think everyone but CNMs should be banned from practicing.

Yep exactly. And to further clarify, a CNM is a Master degree prepared nurse. So they've gone through 4 years of nursing school to get a BSN, and then go to grad school, do a ton of hours of clinical time, pass boards, and then get to be called a CNM.

It is a world apart from what Jill was training to do.

[August]

A CNM is a birth professional, a lay midwife is a birth enthusiast.

I was about to say I would allow a lay midwife near me as a doula while I'm under the care of a CNM. But then I thought about it, and the lay midwife would be too arrogant to know what she doesn't know, and that could be dangerous. The thing about my CNM was that she knew (and had rules about) her scope of care, and she knew when to call for help.