Has anyone read Elishaba Hale's memoir? (Papa Pilgrim family)

[NachosFlandersStyle]

Just finished Out of the Wilderness, Elishaba Doerksen (nee Hale)'s 2022 memoir about growing up with and escaping Robert Hale AKA Papa Pilgrim. Quick read but hoo boy, not for the squeamish. Elishaba (pronounced a-LEE-sha-ba, she explains) was the oldest of 15 children of the Hale family, which began with a 33-year-old Robert and his 16-year-old wife Kurina on a hippie commune in the 70s. We've got an archived topic with more background on the family's story and their connection to the fundie Buckingham family.

I knew it was a story of abuse but Elishaba really drives home the severity. Robert kept a bullwhip to beat the children and regularly ordered them to sleep outside in the cold or spend days without food for infractions as simple as not appearing enthusiastic about his whims. When Elishaba was very young, he read a passage in the bible about "imagination in man's heart" and took it to mean that imagination itself was evil -- the children were forbidden from playing in any imaginative way. There is a LOT of animal cruelty in this book, as Robert delighted in taking away the children's only companions. Robert did not allow any guests to enter the house (which was really a crude, filthy lean-to on an isolated New Mexico ranch) and did not allow the children to speak with or look at strangers when they ventured into town. Except for a weird interlude in which they lived on a bus, dumpster diving and mooching off churches, they had virtually no interactions except with relatives and the very occasional "follower" who would take interest in Robert's religious teachings before quickly realizing he was a tyrant.

Elishaba was even further isolated within the family by her father's design. When she was 12, her father began having her sit with him in the family's outdoor bathtub, where he would touch himself. He made her sleep beside him and rub his hands and feet until he fell asleep, which often meant she got very little sleep. She had to address him as "lord" and ask his permission to do anything, including eat or use the bathroom -- and he often withheld that permission just to torture her. When she was 19, Robert began actually raping her, using bible verses that she didn't understand and could not read for herself to justify his actions. (Interestingly for a fundie, Elishaba uses NIV translations in the book and makes the case that the KJV made it difficult for her to see what was wrong with her father's arguments.) She was held back from family activities so that Robert could be alone with her and molest her. This abuse would go on for nearly a decade before anyone in the family -- half of them legal adults -- managed to do anything about it. 

Kurina was well aware of the abuse not just because it was taking place in a one-room shack but because Robert apparently told her. Elishaba says that she screamed when she found out but quickly assented. The one previous time Elishaba can remember her mother contradicting Robert (by refusing to go on a trip with him) she was banished from the house for weeks. Kurina becomes a sort of grudging source of support, helping her on the day she escaped, but maintains for years after Robert was arrested that his relationship with Elishaba was consensual.

The section abut the Buckinghams was fascinating. After the Hales moved to Alaska (likely because authorities were closing in on them for poaching and illegal grazing in NM), the older boys, then in their early 20s, had to get jobs off the compound. They met Jim Buckingham, who lived about 200 miles away in Palmer, AK and was pastor at a small IFB church, in the course of some business with their horses. Jim and his wife Martha seemed to immediately sense that things weren't all right at home and set out to help all of the Hale children. The invited the entire family of 17 to spend three weeks with their family of 11. Jim made a point of putting up with Robert even through he spent most of the time openly ranting and raving that Jim was the devil, while Martha made sure each of the children knew they could call or stay whenever they needed. 

Robert was not very subtle about his physical or sexual abuse and had clearly only gotten away with it because the family lived miles from their closest neighbors. The Buckinghams picked up on what was going on with Elishaba. Jim confronted him, telling him that as a mandatory reporter, he'd recently gone to police about another family they knew where the father was abusing the daughter. Really is everywhere in those circles, huh? This confrontation more or less leads to Robert kidnapping Elishaba to a freezing cabin where he commits the most severe of the abuses he was charged with.

After her escape, Elishaba spends more than a year living with the Buckinghams while various siblings of hers come and go. Martha especially is very patient at first, helping her talk about her story and understand that it isn't her fault. The teen Buckingham kids are tutoring her in how to read and write and she's almost 30 at this point. However, Elishaba obviously has HUGE issues to overcome -- like panicking that she's about to be beaten when anyone corrects something she does, or worrying that she'll be expected to dote on Jim the way she did with her father. She often leaves and camps in the woods for days at a time when she's overwhelmed, and eventually Martha asks her to stay in a cabin on the property instead, because she's disturbing the household. At no point is professional counseling mentioned.

I thought it was unusual that Elishaba was married before her father was even sentenced, and the book ... does not fully answer my questions about that. SPOILER: Elishaba's husband, Matthew Doerksen, filed for divorce in 2023 and they're currently in a messy custody battle, per her facebook. But back in 2006 Matthew was a member of Jim's church who was also staying with the Buckinghams while about a dozen Hales crashed in their modest home. Elishaba describes him as quiet, gentle, and just sort of around. When she tells Martha that she had a dream about him, Martha is very excited, which makes me wonder if the Buckingham parents were playing matchmaker. There is no mention of any official courtship or even any one-on-one conversation between the two of them until Matthew proposes on her birthday, less than two years after her escape. 

If I had to guess, I would say that Elishaba felt a lot of pressure to "catch up" with others her age and to prove she wasn't damaged goods -- and maybe to get out of the Buckingham house. They had a no-touch courtship, which worked out in her favor because she was terrified at the thought of touching a man. To her credit, before the wedding she tells him that she needs to know that he won't run a household where the man rules over the woman. He says something kind of lame about it being a man's job to protect his wife. She says what most impressed her about Matthew is that he didn't pressure her to consummate the marriage on their wedding night.

The last couple of chapters are where it gets very churchy. She talks about healing through attending women's conferences and seeing a Christian counselor, both of which are very focused on forgiveness and letting go of "bitterness." She ends the book with a story about visiting Robert's grave and leaving a letter on his tombstone.

I went to her public facebook page after I finished the book, and oh man is she going through it. She's doordashing and driving Uber to support her two kids (one of whom has significant disabilities) and just had some kind of big health scare. She's working on her GED but clearly has a ways to go (she had a good writer working with her on the book, but remember this is someone who was almost entirely illiterate until her late 20s). But the big bummer is that her siblings have mostly cut her off over disagreements about what's in the book and have taken Matthew's side in the divorce. I suspect this is because she's pretty clear that her mother, in particular, knew about the sexual abuse and didn't stop it. She doesn't have much bad to say about any of her siblings, but the wedge that her father drove between her and the rest of them is pretty clear.

Anyway, if you liked the summary and think you can handle the content, maybe consider buying the book -- she could certainly use the support!

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

15 minutes ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

Just finished Out of the Wilderness, Elishaba Doerksen (nee Hale)'s 2022 memoir about growing up with and escaping Robert Hale AKA Papa Pilgrim. Quick read but hoo boy, not for the squeamish. Elishaba (pronounced a-LEE-sha-ba, she explains) was the oldest of 15 children of the Hale family, which began with a 33-year-old Robert and his 16-year-old wife Kurina on a hippie commune in the 70s. We've got an archived topic with more background on the family's story and their connection to the fundie Buckingham family.

I knew it was a story of abuse but Elishaba really drives home the severity. Robert kept a bullwhip to beat the children and regularly ordered them to sleep outside in the cold or spend days without food for infractions as simple as not appearing enthusiastic about his whims. When Elishaba was very young, he read a passage in the bible about "imagination in man's heart" and took it to mean that imagination itself was evil -- the children were forbidden from playing in any imaginative way. There is a LOT of animal cruelty in this book, as Robert delighted in taking away the children's only companions. Robert did not allow any guests to enter the house (which was really a crude, filthy lean-to on an isolated New Mexico ranch) and did not allow the children to speak with or look at strangers when they ventured into town. Except for a weird interlude in which they lived on a bus, dumpster diving and mooching off churches, they had virtually no interactions except with relatives and the very occasional "follower" who would take interest in Robert's religious teachings before quickly realizing he was a tyrant.

Elishaba was even further isolated within the family by her father's design. When she was 12, her father began having her sit with him in the family's outdoor bathtub, where he would touch himself. He made her sleep beside him and rub his hands and feet until he fell asleep, which often meant she got very little sleep. She had to address him as "lord" and ask his permission to do anything, including eat or use the bathroom -- and he often withheld that permission just to torture her. When she was 19, Robert began actually raping her, using bible verses that she didn't understand and could not read for herself to justify his actions. (Interestingly for a fundie, Elishaba uses NIV translations in the book and makes the case that the KJV made it difficult for her to see what was wrong with her father's arguments.) She was held back from family activities so that Robert could be alone with her and molest her. This abuse would go on for nearly a decade before anyone in the family -- half of them legal adults -- managed to do anything about it. 

Kurina was well aware of the abuse not just because it was taking place in a one-room shack but because Robert apparently told her. Elishaba says that she screamed when she found out but quickly assented. The one previous time Elishaba can remember her mother contradicting Robert (by refusing to go on a trip with him) she was banished from the house for weeks. Kurina becomes a sort of grudging source of support, helping her on the day she escaped, but maintains for years after Robert was arrested that his relationship with Elishaba was consensual.

The section abut the Buckinghams was fascinating. After the Hales moved to Alaska (likely because authorities were closing in on them for poaching and illegal grazing in NM), the older boys, then in their early 20s, had to get jobs off the compound. They met Jim Buckingham, who lived about 200 miles away in Palmer, AK and was pastor at a small IFB church, in the course of some business with their horses. Jim and his wife Martha seemed to immediately sense that things weren't all right at home and set out to help all of the Hale children. The invited the entire family of 17 to spend three weeks with their family of 11. Jim made a point of putting up with Robert even through he spent most of the time openly ranting and raving that Jim was the devil, while Martha made sure each of the children knew they could call or stay whenever they needed. 

Robert was not very subtle about his physical or sexual abuse and had clearly only gotten away with it because the family lived miles from their closest neighbors. The Buckinghams picked up on what was going on with Elishaba. Jim confronted him, telling him that as a mandatory reporter, he'd recently gone to police about another family they knew where the father was abusing the daughter. Really is everywhere in those circles, huh? This confrontation more or less leads to Robert kidnapping Elishaba to a freezing cabin where he commits the most severe of the abuses he was charged with.

After her escape, Elishaba spends more than a year living with the Buckinghams while various siblings of hers come and go. Martha especially is very patient at first, helping her talk about her story and understand that it isn't her fault. The teen Buckingham kids are tutoring her in how to read and write and she's almost 30 at this point. However, Elishaba obviously has HUGE issues to overcome -- like panicking that she's about to be beaten when anyone corrects something she does, or worrying that she'll be expected to dote on Jim the way she did with her father. She often leaves and camps in the woods for days at a time when she's overwhelmed, and eventually Martha asks her to stay in a cabin on the property instead, because she's disturbing the household. At no point is professional counseling mentioned.

I thought it was unusual that Elishaba was married before her father was even sentenced, and the book ... does not fully answer my questions about that. SPOILER: Elishaba's husband, Matthew Doerksen, filed for divorce in 2023 and they're currently in a messy custody battle, per her facebook. But back in 2006 Matthew was a member of Jim's church who was also staying with the Buckinghams while about a dozen Hales crashed in their modest home. Elishaba describes him as quiet, gentle, and just sort of around. When she tells Martha that she had a dream about him, Martha is very excited, which makes me wonder if the Buckingham parents were playing matchmaker. There is no mention of any official courtship or even any one-on-one conversation between the two of them until Matthew proposes on her birthday, less than two years after her escape. 

If I had to guess, I would say that Elishaba felt a lot of pressure to "catch up" with others her age and to prove she wasn't damaged goods -- and maybe to get out of the Buckingham house. They had a no-touch courtship, which worked out in her favor because she was terrified at the thought of touching a man. To her credit, before the wedding she tells him that she needs to know that he won't run a household where the man rules over the woman. He says something kind of lame about it being a man's job to protect his wife. She says what most impressed her about Matthew is that he didn't pressure her to consummate the marriage on their wedding night.

The last couple of chapters are where it gets very churchy. She talks about healing through attending women's conferences and seeing a Christian counselor, both of which are very focused on forgiveness and letting go of "bitterness." She ends the book with a story about visiting Robert's grave and leaving a letter on his tombstone.

I went to her public facebook page after I finished the book, and oh man is she going through it. She's doordashing and driving Uber to support her two kids (one of whom has significant disabilities) and just had some kind of big health scare. She's working on her GED but clearly has a ways to go (she had a good writer working with her on the book, but remember this is someone who was almost entirely illiterate until her late 20s). But the big bummer is that her siblings have mostly cut her off over disagreements about what's in the book and have taken Matthew's side in the divorce. I suspect this is because she's pretty clear that her mother, in particular, knew about the sexual abuse and didn't stop it. She doesn't have much bad to say about any of her siblings, but the wedge that her father drove between her and the rest of them is pretty clear.

Anyway, if you liked the summary and think you can handle the content, maybe consider buying the book -- she could certainly use the support!

 

Thanks for the summary! I look at her Facebook from time to time so I knew about her siblings cutting her off and the messy divorce. 
 

I will add one thing. A son of the Buckinghams is in prison for a sexually related offense (Daniel Truth Buckingham). And I believe the Buckinghams may have adopted some kids in the last few years. 
 

https://www.kyuk.org/public-safety/2023-05-26/daniel-buckingham-sentenced-to-23-years-for-sexual-assault?_amp=true

 

Of course Pa Buckingham thinks his son is innocent even though it produced a child. And he was already on probation. He could report Hale but not his own kid 🙄 so typical.

Edited January 9 by JermajestyDuggar

[anjulibai]

Poor woman. I hope she gets a decent check for her book.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

19 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

https://www.kyuk.org/public-safety/2023-05-26/daniel-buckingham-sentenced-to-23-years-for-sexual-assault?_amp=true

Of course Pa Buckingham thinks his son is innocent even though it produced a child. And he was already on probation. He could report Hale but not his own kid 🙄 so typical.

YIKES! Especially "His own expert witness determined Buckingham has difficulties with the concept of consent and a hostility toward women." And of course "Buckingham spoke at length about his religious beliefs and the difficulty he has faced throughout the trial process and his imprisonment."

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 minutes ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

YIKES! Especially "His own expert witness determined Buckingham has difficulties with the concept of consent and a hostility toward women." And of course "Buckingham spoke at length about his religious beliefs and the difficulty he has faced throughout the trial process and his imprisonment."

I would say that is probably common amongst fundie men. They are never taught consent and they think are less than men. So yeah, not surprised.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

One other thing about her husband that irked me -- she notes that when they were expecting their first child, Matthew picked the name Esther, which bothered Elishaba because her father used to call her "my Queen Esther" and use the Esther story to justify his actions. When she brings it up, he says that they should reclaim it and turn it into something positive, so Elishaba goes along with it. He does the same thing when he decides that he wants the children to call him Papa instead of Dad. In the book, written pre-divorce, she makes this out like a charming story of how he helped her move past her traumas. But honestly? Psycho behavior. What the fuck.

[Jasmar]

I read the book sometime in the last 6-7 years or so, and it was wrenching. I am so, so sad that’s it’s turned out the way it has. Not surprised, based on the last section (and seeing how the people in her life were affecting its trajectory). Just, ugh.

[nelliebelle1197]

I wonder if the Maxwells are still friendly with the BuckHales?

[AmazonGrace]

Quote

But the big bummer is that her siblings have mostly cut her off over disagreements about what's in the book and have taken Matthew's side in the divorce. I suspect this is because she's pretty clear that her mother, in particular, knew about the sexual abuse and didn't stop it.

Sad for her to be without family support. But it doesn't really sound like any of the family would be capable of providing much of it in any case.

[JermajestyDuggar]

It’s very common that children of an abusive parent see things differently from one another. All families dealing with abuse in the family tend to have some sort of split as adults. Often based on differing perspectives on the abuse. Of course denial is a huge problem. And example would be the Smith family. The parents are in denial about Alan while their 3 bio daughters are not. So there’s a rift. When it comes to the Hales, they are in denial about how bad things were for a Elisheba and how much of a role their mother played. Even in the Duggar house there is denial that is at the root of some of the problems between the siblings. Some people use denial to shield themselves from the pain. But by doing this, they are causing other family members pain. Disclaimer: Of course this is just all my opinion. 

[DalmatianCat]

Reading some of the comments on her book on Goodreads from one of her brothers (and then going down deep dives on their instagrams) makes it seem like the issue the siblings have with Elishaba is that while she was being horrifically abused by her father, he was also forcing her to abuse her siblings, and that’s what they remember…she abused them. While they do feel sorry for her, they also don’t feel like she’s ever admitted/apologized/taken responsibility for the abuse she carried out against them. It’s a tricky situation, and I can see how Elishaba seems to feel that due to her own abuse she should be forgiven by her siblings, but their perspective seems to lean more towards wanting her to take a little responsibility and not just lump herself in with them as victims because she was a victim and a perpetrator and they were just victims.
It also seems like some of the divide with her siblings comes from—in telling her own story—Elishaba ended up sharing sensitive aspects of her siblings stories that they didn’t want out in the public. Definitely a delicate situation…Elishaba has her truth, but not all victims want their abuse shared and it seems like some of her siblings feel like her book crossed a line when it came to sharing their personal stories. It’s similar to how strongly Jill Duggar felt about her victimization by her brother. Did he need to get caught? Yes. Did she want InTouch to release the files of a horrible, traumatic time in her life for the whole internet to read? No. It’s a struggle for victims everywhere and why so many don’t testify.

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

Reading some of the comments on her book on Goodreads from one of her brothers (and then going down deep dives on their instagrams) makes it seem like the issue the siblings have with Elishaba is that while she was being horrifically abused by her father, he was also forcing her to abuse her siblings, and that’s what they remember…she abused them. While they do feel sorry for her, they also don’t feel like she’s ever admitted/apologized/taken responsibility for the abuse she carried out against them. It’s a tricky situation, and I can see how Elishaba seems to feel that due to her own abuse she should be forgiven by her siblings, but their perspective seems to lean more towards wanting her to take a little responsibility and not just lump herself in with them as victims because she was a victim and a perpetrator and they were just victims.
It also seems like some of the divide with her siblings comes from—in telling her own story—Elishaba ended up sharing sensitive aspects of her siblings stories that they didn’t want out in the public. Definitely a delicate situation…Elishaba has her truth, but not all victims want their abuse shared and it seems like some of her siblings feel like her book crossed a line when it came to sharing their personal stories. It’s similar to how strongly Jill Duggar felt about her victimization by her brother. Did he need to get caught? Yes. Did she want InTouch to release the files of a horrible, traumatic time in her life for the whole internet to read? No. It’s a struggle for victims everywhere and why so many don’t testify.

Which is interesting because they seem to have forgiven their mother but not Elisheba. I can’t help but doubt Elisheba abused the two oldest brothers that married Buckinghams. They were just too old and bigger than Elisheba. But I definitely think she likely had to abuse the younger kids at her father’s demand. It’s obvious he treated her like a wife instead of a daughter. But in these patriarchal groups, the wife still doesn’t get a say in anything. 

[NachosFlandersStyle]

12 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

Reading some of the comments on her book on Goodreads from one of her brothers (and then going down deep dives on their instagrams) makes it seem like the issue the siblings have with Elishaba is that while she was being horrifically abused by her father, he was also forcing her to abuse her siblings, and that’s what they remember…she abused them. While they do feel sorry for her, they also don’t feel like she’s ever admitted/apologized/taken responsibility for the abuse she carried out against them. It’s a tricky situation, and I can see how Elishaba seems to feel that due to her own abuse she should be forgiven by her siblings, but their perspective seems to lean more towards wanting her to take a little responsibility and not just lump herself in with them as victims because she was a victim and a perpetrator and they were just victims.
It also seems like some of the divide with her siblings comes from—in telling her own story—Elishaba ended up sharing sensitive aspects of her siblings stories that they didn’t want out in the public. Definitely a delicate situation…Elishaba has her truth, but not all victims want their abuse shared and it seems like some of her siblings feel like her book crossed a line when it came to sharing their personal stories. It’s similar to how strongly Jill Duggar felt about her victimization by her brother. Did he need to get caught? Yes. Did she want InTouch to release the files of a horrible, traumatic time in her life for the whole internet to read? No. It’s a struggle for victims everywhere and why so many don’t testify.

I can see that. She describes in the book several occasions when she was made to whip her brothers and says she felt awful about it.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Unfortunately she probably didn’t feel like she had much of a choice. And maybe she convinced herself that her whippings were less severe than her father’s whippings. 

Edited January 10 by JermajestyDuggar

[Jasmar]

On 1/9/2024 at 10:44 AM, nelliebelle1197 said:

I wonder if the Maxwells are still friendly with the BuckHales?

I’m sure I remember reading that here, somewhere in the Maxwell threads I think. They knew and socialized with the Buckinghams but not the Hales, is what I remember.

[nelliebelle1197]

15 hours ago, Jasmar said:

I’m sure I remember reading that here, somewhere in the Maxwell threads I think. They knew and socialized with the Buckinghams but not the Hales, is what I remember.

We have called the family the BuckHales since Hale family took in some of the Buckingham kids and there was intermarriage.

Edited January 11 by nelliebelle1197

[JermajestyDuggar]

I swear Christopher took wedding photos of a Hale wedding only 2 or 3 years ago. I could be wrong though. The pandemic warped my sense of time 😬

[Maggie Mae]

54 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I swear Christopher took wedding photos of a Hale wedding only 2 or 3 years ago. I could be wrong though. The pandemic warped my sense of time 😬

That was Noah & Abby's wedding in Iowa. 2021.  Noah and Abby moved to Bethel and are now "evangelizing" the hub village in Western Alaska. 

[SPHASH]

On 1/10/2024 at 4:49 PM, Jasmar said:

I’m sure I remember reading that here, somewhere in the Maxwell threads I think. They knew and socialized with the Buckinghams but not the Hales, is what I remember.

Wasn't one of the Buckingham or Hales in John and Chelsy's wedding?

[JermajestyDuggar]

Elisheba is on “Evil Lives Here” talking about her father. It’s an ID show. 
 

Season 15 episode 2.

Edited February 26 by JermajestyDuggar

[JermajestyDuggar]

I also want to add she’s dealing with a brain tumor and she needs surgery. I don’t think they know if it’s cancerous or benign yet. But I swear this woman has dealt with so much in her life. It’s unbelievable. 

[Jasmar]

That just breaks my heart. Abuse and neglect do such a terrible number on our bodies, it just isn’t fair that a lot of us who have gone through the most end up having to deal with the physical consequences in our bodies for decades to come.

[JermajestyDuggar]

It looks like the brain tumor is cancer 😔

[PopRox]

Because this poor woman has not been through ENOUGH without adding cancer on top of it. 😭

[JermajestyDuggar]

Her latest post about her surgery. I’m sure the vast majority of those concussions are from her father.