Arkansas Midwife Loses License - Mother Speaks Out Merged

[BriMamai]

If you look at the doctor of the year article , Dr Hill, delivered almost every baby born at the hospital. I'm wondering if he is the only ob/gyn with privilages at that hospital. Maybe in exchange for the hospital covering his malpractice he has to deliver every baby including emergencies , uninsured etc.

If Jill had not seen a doctor during her prenatal care, I would assume she would have to take whoever was willing to take her. She is lucky there was someone willing. Doctors can turn you down. Yes an ER has to help a women in labor but it does not mean you get a ob to deliver your baby. It could be an ER dr, surgeon or family practice doctor.

My ex was a surgeon and hated his ob rotation in med school. He decided to practice at a rural hospital that had no ob/gyn left in the area. Part of his contract was as a surgeon he would do any emergency deliveries or C-sections. The hospital covered all malpractice. Luckily there were only a handful of emergencies every year.

Well, part of this is true. EMTALA (Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act) is the rule that applies here. If a woman in active labor presents to an ER there are several scenarios. First, if there is a maternity ward or Labor and Delivery, she will be taken there for evaluation. This is regardless of whether or not she has an OB. If there is no L&D, she will be evaluated in the Emergency Department. Doctors in the ED are trained in Obstetrics as part of our residency, but I do not know a single ED provider who looks forward to delivering babies! In a facility without L&D, the woman is evaluated to determine (or, let's be honest, guess) how far from delivery she is. If she and the baby seem well, and time permits, they will be transferred to the nearest appropriate L&D. So, basically, you will get an OB (or CNM) as long as you present to somewhere with L&D or early enough to be transferred somewhere that does.

[grandmadugger]

Her brother and sister-in-law appear to have chosen the "above ground" route for home birth in MD. Lay midwives are a no-go in this state. The last episode of the show included footage from their appointment with a midwife who is a CNM at a practice of CNMs that attend home births in MD.

Anna isn't a VBAC either. By having Izzy C-Section it makes her a little bit tougher than someone like Anna. I found some more rules. I've got to go off and find my current state laws on midwives. I know we have midwives but any that I know of work with a Dr.

[Grace]

From a local's perspective, I wouldn't drive all the way to Siloam to see him but if he was closer I would consider him for a next baby.

Dr Hill is one of the small handful OB's in the area who strongly supports natural birth and you can be sure won't bully patients into unwanted interventions or go for a shift change "oh! Suddenly you need a c-section at exactly 4:30pm!" If he does a section you pretty much know without asking details that it was necessary. He is also one of 2 or 3 OB's who are very supportive of getting a mother thru a VBAC, not just say they can try or refuse alltogether.

[grandmadugger]

UGH I looked up the rules in Kansas. I'm shocked I don't hear about more mothers dying during childbirth.

Who can legally attend births?

In the state of Kansas you have the right to birth anywhere you choose, and you can have any attendant you wish. Drs and CNMs are regulated by the Kansas Board of Healing Arts and the State Board of Nursing respectively. DEMs are not required to carry any license. Although there is no Kansas law regulating birth attendants, the legal precedence in Kansas is that birth is not a medical event therefore, no medical license is required to attend births (STATE BD. OF NURSING v. RUEBKE 1996)

So Jilly Muffin could come to Kansas and have no issues having a child here, VBAC or not.

[Cactus]

There's something about the title 'Board of Healing Arts' that deeply bothers me. As if medicine is not a science that takes years to learn, and which should only be practised by certified professionals. Instead, any two-bit quack with a bag o' potions and a Good Book can practise the Healing Arts! Anyone can be a healing artist!!!1! :roll:

It sounds like something the Duggars would come up with to make their children sound useful to society.

[iknowright]

UGH I looked up the rules in Kansas. I'm shocked I don't hear about more mothers dying during childbirth.

Who can legally attend births?

In the state of Kansas you have the right to birth anywhere you choose, and you can have any attendant you wish. Drs and CNMs are regulated by the Kansas Board of Healing Arts and the State Board of Nursing respectively. DEMs are not required to carry any license. Although there is no Kansas law regulating birth attendants, the legal precedence in Kansas is that birth is not a medical event therefore, no medical license is required to attend births (STATE BD. OF NURSING v. RUEBKE 1996)

So Jilly Muffin could come to Kansas and have no issues having a child here, VBAC or not.

Oh, there are deaths of mothers and newborns for sure. Many times the mother and child have transported too late and the hospital has to record the death.

I suggest you google hurt by home birth or the skeptic ob. I don't know how to provide links on here, but the stories are startling. So much is completely preventable.

[CallmeChaCha]

There's something about the title 'Board of Healing Arts' that deeply bothers me. As if medicine is not a science that takes years to learn, and which should only be practised by certified professionals. Instead, any two-bit quack with a bag o' potions and a Good Book can practise the Healing Arts! Anyone can be a healing artist!!!1! :roll:

It sounds like something the Duggars would come up with to make their children sound useful to society.

Yes!! I was thinking the same thing when I read that.

[JMO]

The more I learn about Venessa, the less surprised I am about Jill's poor choices in birthing her own baby. I'm still excited to see the birth episode and what will they edit in/out. I'm less excited to see Monday's special mash up of previous Duggar births. :roll:

[DarkAnts]

The more I learn about Venessa, the less surprised I am about Jill's poor choices in birthing her own baby. I'm still excited to see the birth episode and what will they edit in/out. I'm less excited to see Monday's special mash up of previous Duggar births. :roll:

I want to see what gets swiffered between the initial showing and subsequent showings.

[halcionne]

I want to see what gets swiffered between the initial showing and subsequent showings.

Can you DVR them? That would be amazing to compare and contrast.

[apandaaries]

Oh, there are deaths of mothers and newborns for sure. Many times the mother and child have transported too late and the hospital has to record the death.

I suggest you google hurt by home birth or the skeptic ob. I don't know how to provide links on here, but the stories are startling. So much is completely preventable.

Totally preventable but still quite dangerous! Sign the Duggars Dillards right up! Anyone know about Texas? If Venessa went there, then perhaps Jill will follow her to try for a homebirth VBAC. Guess Kansas could be the backup state. Does Utah have fairly loose rules, too? Maybe that's too far north for the Arkansas family, though. Don't want to accidentally birth a Yankee.

I've read through the thread but skimmed, so forgive me if someone else mentioned this. But I think another part of the Gothard-based objections to hospital birth is related to Eve's sin (yes, that old thing that we're still so concerned about). Birth pains are part of God's punishment for Eve's sin, and so women must endure that pain, preferably without interventions. I believe women are also encouraged to just pray the pain away and not cry out or get emotional. Remember how quiet J'Chelle was during her televised labors?

I'm all for midwives, when they are operating safely and have fast, easy access to other medical facilities. These ladies sound like a group of uneducated, dangerous quacks. What a terrible way to represent midwives.

[SassyPants]

IMO, Jill's 1st pregnancy (not going into labor) plus size, and labor and delivery history really preclude her from a home birth. An attempt at a VBAC in a hospital, sure, although I have a feeling all of her births will end up being similar-unless her future babies are much smaller and she agrees to having medication to keep her stress levels down.

If she had a C-section primarily for breech presentation, with an average sized baby, not post dates, not huge, not GBS positive and not a woman who admits that she is easily stressed, I might be more hopeful.

It's uncanny that Jill found and married a man with seemingly the same level of common sense, nonexistent. God help the Dillard crew.

[ClaraOswin]

When did she say she easily gets stressed? On the show? Or an interview or what?

I don't think it would be smart to attempt a home birth at all after what she went through. But I am a member on a "mommy" forum and I've seen people in similar situations do it. Personally, I think they are ridiculous. Having the "perfect" birth experience shouldn't be your #1 priority. Idiots.

[grandmadugger]

I did a little more research about Kansas laws because it was disturbing to me. There is a free standing birth center that recently got it's license revoked. They are back in business but can no longer do VBAC. I was thankful to see that all of the DEM (lay midwife) that had a current website said they wouldn't do a VBAC unless it had be more than 18 months and there were caveats about the type of incision done.

I also did a little searching in Texas. There's no license listed for Venessa there either. Unless it's under a different last name than what is listed on Facebook.

[SassyPants]

When did she say she easily gets stressed? On the show? Or an interview or what?

I don't think it would be smart to attempt a home birth at all after what she went through. But I am a member on a "mommy" forum and I've seen people in similar situations do it. Personally, I think they are ridiculous. Having the "perfect" birth experience shouldn't be your #1 priority. Idiots.

I can't remember when she said it.

Help me folks, was it on the show?

[SassyPants]

When did she say she easily gets stressed? On the show? Or an interview or what?

I don't think it would be smart to attempt a home birth at all after what she went through. But I am a member on a "mommy" forum and I've seen people in similar situations do it. Personally, I think they are ridiculous. Having the "perfect" birth experience shouldn't be your #1 priority. Idiots.

I think she said she is easily stressed and cries when she gets overwhelmed, something to that extent.

Did you see the wedding episode? She and her dad are about ready to walk into the church and Jill gets this very un-Jill -like face and voice and says "actually, I'm really nervous." She seemed like a different person.

And then who could forget the wisdom teeth episode with JB holding her hand?

[halcionne]

I can't remember when she said it.

Help me folks, was it on the show?

I don't know about easily stressed, but we know she has a low pain tolerance and gets whiny when she's uncomfortable based on her wisdom teeth extraction. Not judging whiners, here, just Jill. :whistle:

[ClaraOswin]

I noticed in the wedding one she says "I can fake a front" or whatever. And I was thinking - um, no. It's really obvious by how you're talking that you're freaking out.

I can't remember the wisdom teeth one at all though.

[Coco]

it's funny how obviously fake the promo is. It says 24 hours into labor and she's sitting on the bed, then 48 hours into labor and it's like she just leaned forward two minutes later. :lol: No outdoor light changes through the window or anything.

Also, Derick wasn't filling the tub. Nothing about that promo seemed true to a homebirth with actual labor progressing. The shots of Jill, her mom, Jana, and the helper in the car, all seem pre-shot and staged.

[Coco]

I just reread the People article. The only 'medical professional' named in the article was a student midwife, Rachel Goad. No midwife or doctor was named, that I can see. I tried to read it very carefully, but it's in my nature to skim, so I may have missed it. I didn't even see the name of the author anywhere, which says something about my attention to detail, or possibly about the quality of the magazine and its writers.

We know Jill's doctor, once admitted, was Dr. Hill*, and we know he worked with Venessa Giron. I have seen his name in context with other area midwives, too, but I don't remember who off the top of my head. Point being that maybe Venessa was secretly involved, like a previous poster suggests. Or that the People writer and their editor are truly bad at their jobs.

*Dr. Hill is another figure who may or may not be worth looking into. He was involved in a love triangle that brought the police to the hospital parking lot (I can dig the article up if anyone wants), which is juicy, but probably not relevant to this thread. :shock:

Is Dr. Hill the one in the photo of Jill and Derick standing up before she left the hospital? :lol: because i got a strong "soap opera doctor" vibe from him in that pic. Love triangle and parking lot drama, yep makes sense.

ETA i don't doubt he's a good doctor, just maybe one who seems to think he's super handsome and all that plus a bag of chips.

[SassyPants]

I'm not convinced that the episode will be very accurate or informative.

[lovemygsp]

I can't remember when she said it.

Help me folks, was it on the show?

I've never heard that nonsense before. Stress has nothing to do with her birth experience. She's an idiot for sure but just because she might or might not be a high stress person didn't effect how Izzy arrived.

ETA as someone with a huge dental phobia back off Jill for that. (I can't believe I'm defending her but I'm tired of this always being brought up.) I personally know it's completely irrational yet I hyperventilate thinking about the dentist. It doesn't mean she is a baby and can't handle pain. Now if she flrips out over an IV in the hospital then maybe we can snark on her but until then I'll cut her slack.

[Coco]

ita with Halcionne's idea that Jill just got scared and couldn't deal with the pain. Izzy is a huge baby.

I'm guessing she just didn't think much and blindly checked off all the good fundie boxes. Went along with her midwife's advice as far as massaging and oils and stretching, went to the chiro for an adjustment, didn't worry when she started leaking, since the body keeps making amniotic fluid, told herself that nature would take its course... but the baby was just too big and she was just too nerve-wracked for all of that to work for her. Having a film crew in there when she was scared to pieces, yeah that does not help with the relaxation she needed to help her body trust and let go. And it was REALLY STUPID to take castor oil with a post-term baby.

If only she'd been seen by an ethical OBGYN practice in addition to the midwife friends and been induced when Izzy was smaller, she might not have had to go through all of this.

I agree the episode is going to be really fake and staged.

[Coco]

I've never heard that nonsense before. Stress has nothing to do with her birth experience. She's an idiot for sure but just because she might or might not be a high stress person didn't effect how Izzy arrived.

ETA as someone with a huge dental phobia back off Jill for that. (I can't believe I'm defending her but I'm tired of this always being brought up.) I personally know it's completely irrational yet I hyperventilate thinking about the dentist. It doesn't mean she is a baby and can't handle pain. Now if she flrips out over an IV in the hospital then maybe we can snark on her but until then I'll cut her slack.

Stress has everything to do with birth experience. Even animals in nature can slow or interrupt labor to get to a safe place if they feel stressed or endangered. If a woman doesn't feel safe, labor will be more difficult, could stall and become dangerous. And if Jill is afraid of pain and the unknown, of course that played into her labor experience.

It doesn't mean dental phobia makes you an irrational person.

[FundieliciousTaterTot]

There's something about the title 'Board of Healing Arts' that deeply bothers me. As if medicine is not a science that takes years to learn, and which should only be practised by certified professionals. Instead, any two-bit quack with a bag o' potions and a Good Book can practise the Healing Arts! Anyone can be a healing artist!!!1! :roll:

It sounds like something the Duggars would come up with to make their children sound useful to society.

I am a homebirth skeptic. Unless it is supervised by an OB I think it is terribly dangerous. A friend of mine was having one and had some complications and her midwife tried to dissuade her from going to the nearby hospital (5 min away) to go to a hospital the midwife liked (30 min away). She had to get a c-section so thank goodness she ignored the stupid midwife. After her experience she is never homebirthing again. (Her choice)

Also frightening: the free birthing movement...birthing all by yourself without a midwife. Scary! I mean unless you accidentally go into labor quickly and pop the kid out on the toilet or in the living room that is one thing but all the problems that can happen if you plan to be all alone... Even if everything goes well who is going to sew your perineal tears if you have any? :(

My skepticism of midwives (not CNMs) grew when a woman came to my house to pick up maternity books I was free cycling as part of her education as a midwife. These were not textbooks just some crappy pregnancy books. The educational standards/lack thereof for lay midwives is frightening.