The Continuing Fall of VF and Doug Phillips is a tool-Part 4

[Jezebel]

I agree with those saying Susan Bradrick's words and the responses directed towards her are over the top. Is it possible that the reason she's still crying is because she's helping Hero? Is the Bradrick home a safe place for Hero to process everything? If Susan were in the middle of helping her, that would make more sense. Washington is a long way from Texas, but maybe that's what Hero needs.

Considering that's the household that bred and raised the likes of Peter Bradrick? I doubt it.

The way I see it, Susan Bradrick's a mother who had very high hopes for her son. Sending him off to be one of VF's handpicked interns must have been a proud moment for her. Getting in with the likes of Doug Phillips, Scott Brown, and other luminaries in their particular religious and homeschooling world should have opened a lot of doors for Peter, and assured him a bright future.

Bradrick's initial post on this kind of says it all--Doug Phillips was his mentor, something of a spiritual "father," and (quite frankly), an idol. As much as Bradrick likes to proclaim himself a leader, he's really a consummate follower. Whatever his "vision" for himself may be, it's been given to him by other people. They've told him what he ought to want, the values he ought to live by, and the future he ought to create, and he's accepted it uncritically, in his own bumbling, overeager fashion. And while he may have left VF and San Antonio behind, he's still been a loyalist, still a devoted follower.

Bradrick and a few other men confronted Doug, and, as Bradrick said, "What for us was a tender, emotional mission of mercy and a plea for true repentance was met by something and by someone I never could have imagined."

By now we've already discussed the fact that Doug's a narcissist. And what that statement from Peter Bradrick tells me is that he was on the receiving end of full-blown narcissistic rage, perhaps for the first time ever. Doug, cornered and confronted and not in control of the situation, lost his shit--because that's what narcissists do.

For anyone who hasn't experienced it, it's a deeply shocking and horrifying experience. My own father could be unpredictable and prone to angry outbursts, which kept me walking on eggshells for most of my life. It was not until I was 43 that I witnessed the kind of destructive, punitive, utterly monstrous rage--"something and someone I never could have imagined," as Bradrick describes it. And I didn't even see the first explosion! I saw him two days after the fact, and even then I knew I was in the presence of evil. I'd thought I knew how awful my father could be, but I was wrong--I suddenly saw that he could be incredibly dangerous under the right (wrong?) circumstances. It shocked me so deeply, as if he'd peeled off a human mask so I could see the lizard eyes and writhing tentacles underneath.

I didn't trust my father before that incident. I didn't dare let him get too close, or know too much about me. I had no faith in him. I thought his greedy, materialistic values system was shit. He was not an idol or role model for me. And still, seeing him in that new light still rattled the absolute hell out of me.

So what might that encounter with Doug's narcissistic rage have been like for Petey Bradrick? He got the full blast; he was the primary target. And this came from someone he respected, adored--worshipped, even. He had great faith in Doug Phillips. He saw Doug as a superior sort of man, despite his sins. Bradrick was still a believer in Doug Phillips, still a loyal follower. But instead of repentance, the mask came off, and Petey got to see what was underneath, and had been underneath all along.

When reality gets blown apart like that, you can't put it back together again and pretend everything's just dandy. You can't pretend it was just the heat of the moment, or a misunderstanding. You're in After now; there's no going back to Before.

He must have discussed this with the other men who took part. And then he no doubt called his parents and told them about it.

And his mother? She may have let Doug be an idol, too. After all, here was this charismatic leader, who was going to help her son do great things, who espoused certain values and seemed to be a great, godly man. And yeah, maybe the VF connection helped her career on the homeschool conference circuit. But I think she, like her son, had built up Doug as something much greater than he was, and she had faith in him. And now here's her son, with his wife and five kids, living in a drafty farmhouse on the other side of the country, without even adequate hot water. Things have not worked out so well for him as she hoped. And the person she believed would help her son do great things? He's an adulterer, a predator, a fraud, and he's turned on her baby boy and declared him a sworn enemy.

So yeah, I think I can understand why Susan Bradrick is "still crying." She's suffered her own loss of faith in Doug Phillips, has seen her son crushed and heartbroken by him, and she's no doubt worried about her son's once-bright future, as well--because being associated with Doug Phillips is probably going to become a bigger and bigger liability as more comes to light. We don't know the real story right now, but my guess is that she knows enough to understand that the situation is only going to get worse, and that's got to be a terrible feeling to live with. Which is why I can understand friends' offering her condolences, as well.

[noisyMouse]

Jezebel, what a powerful and plausible sounding post!

[teachergirl]

Darby Sproul has pleaded for people to stop asking for information about the scandal on her FB page. Interesting....I thought good Christians didn't gossip??? How interconnected are the Sprouls and VF other than attending events?

[RosyDaisy]

Until the likes of Peter Bradrick acknowledge that their belief system is harmful, especially to women and girls, they have nothing to say that I want to hear. The whole lot of them are arrogant patriarchal assholes and are long overdue for a comeuppance.

[danvillebelle]

[chaotic life]

Jezebel, that is a very poignant and likely accurate description. As the child of a Narcissistic mother who sought out VF and their ilk because she could elevate herself to the perfection of motherhood by manipulating my father in that world, I lived this nightmare first hand, was groomed to totally swallow the Kool-Aid and live what she was barred from (the QF, large family aspect). I too have seen the rage of a Narcissist finally cornered. In my case, it happened in a court room when I testified and told the entire court who she really was and what she had really done. She sat and actually threatened me physically from her seat. When court concluded, she cackled at the judge and made open threats in court against all of us.....and lost custody of her minor children permanently because of the courage of myself and one other adult child to come to court and speak of who she really was that she closely guarded from the world.

I was a terrible Patriarchal mother and wife. I started slipping out the backdoor as the stay at home daughter movement grew stronger, because I absolutely could NOT reconcile the choices thrust upon my life into a lifetime of servitude for my daughters. I thought I had made a personal choice to live that life (I did not yet understand how deep the abuse and grooming went) and I knew instinctually that my daughters had the same right to choose their own future and lives. I also knew that my beaten down father had taught me one lesson that nothing in that world could destroy--the fundamental value of an education and a wage earning skill to fall back on. I considered my training and professional credentials as an insurance policy for all of those years I was there, and when I cashed in my insurance policy only after leaving it paid off is SPADES (from a five figure debt load of primarily medical debt for our family to nearly debt-free in ONE YEAR, tyvm). I had life insurance on DH and we had disability insurance. But, what if he might leave me, or we required more income than his disability insurance would require? I felt even when I was in that world that having no safety net for women and children was foolish, which is a large part of how I ultimately LEFT.

I am not at ALL shocked at Braddrick's response now. He drank the Kool-Aid hook, line and sinker. The sad reality is that I suspect he will wobble but he will NOT do the appropriate self inspection and he will NOT ultimately shed the legalism. He'll simply find another mentor, or he will become as his mentor was and ultimately he is likely one of the most vulnerable to repeat the exact same process as his precious mentor.

[nokidsmom]

Interesting. And definitely aimed at Doug Phillips is a Tool. What's interesting, though, is that his own son-in-law Peter Bradrick parades himself in the public spotlight, too, just not in costume. There's a fine line (or maybe no line) between that flamboyant showcaser and the manly man fanfare. It's all "look at meeeeee!". It's boastful and obnoxious. Peter learned it from the master Dougie so Scott needs to be reminded of that since Bradrick! is part of the family.

Not to mention that Scott himself was quite all right with the flamboyant showcaser and the manly men stuff. And I wonder if he would have even considered Peter as a husband for Kelly if he were more boring.

[snarkopolis]

I started thinking about all the Christian bloggers we follow and how many of them were Vision Forum affiliates. I went to VF website and found this:

HMMM this happened right after Doug was no longer a BCA elder. :think: Are they somehow tied together?

Edited for spelling error

I smell private affiliate admission fee to Doug (is a Tool) to be in program (better known as a kickback) and thus more fraud, hence the lack of comments from those USUAL suspects. :stir-pot: :penguin-no:

[apple1]

... I also knew that my beaten down father had taught me one lesson that nothing in that world could destroy--the fundamental value of an education and a wage earning skill to fall back on...

Since this thread has taken this turn for the very serious and not snarky at this point -

OMG, that statement is SO important.

My Dad (still living) would be called patriarchal by many on here. He never heard of VF or QF or Gothard, but was very involved in IFB circles, and I still have a hard time with how my Mom had no power or independence when she was alive.

BUT - disconnect or not, cognitive dissonance or not - what you say in the quote above is so very true of my father. Even when his IFB roots were deepest, he pushed the value of education and of wage-earning skills for us kids, and at my current age of 60, I am SO VERY THANKFUL to have these, and they have stood me in good stead for a very long time now.

And if I could say just about anything to the younger members of FJ, it would be: Get an education and have wage earning skills; you must have these to ever be empowered at all and in any life situation. :)

[Palimpsest]

Vision Forum has a long reach and it is an amazingly complex and interconnected web of Fundie Evangelicalism.

As I've said before, the books at VFM must be a disaster area with kick-backs going in all directions. Not just to Doug, but also to many of Doug's pals and enablers over the years. Including to the present VFM board member Brandoftoiletpaper Coloroffecalmatter (tm Thoughtful) and vague links to Chalcedon - the Rushdooney "think tank".

Someone over on JensGems kindly provided this link: ephesians511.wordpress.com/

It's the detailed history of the big split where our friend Scotty and his side-kick Jason -- two out of 4 Elders --refused to be disciplined by TBC and planted their own church (HBC) in the same town back in 2006. I knew it had happened but not the details.

Among the 7 key concerns that God laid on the hearts of men in the congregation and confronted Scott and Jason about causing the split[my bolding and I shortened it a bit]:

2.TBC’s position on Theonomy, a belief system held by several leading men in the church, particularly by Dan Horn, now an Elder at Hope and a VF speaker, and Stiles W., a writer for Chalcedon.

4.The lack of Biblical support for “Family Reformation†to be a “Pillar†of the church, as was the case for TBC.

5.Observable Legalism in the church, causing matters of conscious to be treated as matters of Law.

6.The lack of Biblical support for Scott’s statement in League of Grateful Sons (LOGS), “It’s a son’s task in life to spread the fame and the glory of his father in the same way that the Lord Jesus Christ spread the fame and glory of His Father in heaven.â€

7.The need for TBC to separate from its affiliation with Vision Forum as the lines between the two ministries were becoming more and more blurred.

It seems that Scott arranged for some VF heavies/enforcers to be at the Emergency meeting for the Congregation held by TBC. It's like reading a Fundie version of The Godfather!

ETA: TBC seems to think that Scott was making odd mistakes when reporting his income from VFM and provides screenshots to prove it. :)

[debrand]

Darby Sproul has pleaded for people to stop asking for information about the scandal on her FB page. Interesting....I thought good Christians didn't gossip??? How interconnected are the Sprouls and VF other than attending events?

Joshua Titus has commented on her twitter feed

Darby Sproul â€@darbysproul 1 Dec

Nothing says "Happy Holidays" quite like a grope fest from the TSA.

Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand

Joshua Phillips â€@jtitusp 1 Dec

@darbysproul No kidding.

Hide conversation

Joshua and Darby are at least familiar with each other on twitter.

RC Sproul Jr wrote on his twitter:

â€@rcsprouljr

Howard Phillips, hero, statesman, patriarch, has gone to our Lord. Pray for those who remain. Oh how the mighty have been lifted up

[DomWackTroll]

Someone named E comments on Jen's latest thread: "Just a word to the wise: you really, really should check the factuality of your statements. I have personally ridden in vehicles on multiple occasions with DP driving. Saying that he doesn't have a license is frankly ridiculous, and it calls into question the truth of your other statements. If you want people to believe your message, just do not pepper it with untruths..."

When Jen replies that Doug may drive without a license, E says: "...My point is, no, he doesn't pretend that he doesn't have one. Eston was trying to prove that he doesn't have one based on the (false) premise that he has to be driven everywhere... which is just not the case..."

jensgems.wordpress.com/2013/12/02/yet-another-doug-phillips-sex-scandal/

[nokidsmom]

Peter has been a fool to think that all that gallivanting around to Haiti and God knows where else was a job that a 20-something dick like him raised on a farm with no formal education was going to last him a lifetime. At some point, you have to think for yourself (which I guess he's doing now, a wife and 5 kids later). He's an idiot -- not only did his homeschool education not teach him anything about recognizing people like Dougie for what they are, he's making an ass of himself by refusing to admit he needs a real education and a real job. It's nice his father-in-law gave him a job, but somebody had to, right? What are his skills aside from directing manly men to do push-ups and talking all big and fierce-like about manly groups of manly men congregating in times of CRISIS!

ETA: I wonder if that's the real reason Kelly stopped pumping out the babies. He realized he wasn't going to be able to support any more of them once Fantasyland came crumbling down and maybe having 1400 kids wasn't such a great idea afterall. At least he's still got his brood and his manly stance to prove his virility.

Reading about Susan and Peter, I have to say my feelings are mixed.

I can see that for Susan this is a on the order of a very deep personal loss. She was as invested in VF / Dougie as Peter was in addition to the that her son was destined for great things. Both their reactions are coming from people whose self-worth totally identified with VF / Dougie and now it's all over, Dougie has fallen, has shown his true colors and turned on Peter, they have essentially nothing. They are experiencing deaths, not just the death of VF, but of their faith, the image of their deified leader, hopes for the future, even their own self-image because they were so wrapped up in Dougie. It's all gone now so I get they are both feeling a lot of emptiness and a lot of pain.

At the same time, both of them were so wrapped up in VF fantasyland that neither could see that going on tons of manly adventures, playing dress up and expecting (in Peter's case) to be able to get anywhere without formal education and work experience is not real life by a long shot. So both drunk deep of the koolaid and now reality has finally hit.

I guess I could say it's karmic in a way, because both espoused a damaging, patriarchal system that abused their followers in every possible way, as we are finding out, and both of them were up there with Dougie, supporting him, thinking it was just all great and wonderful while other members who weren't so big in the organization were made to suffer.

I do believe in karma and what goes around comes around. I see it happen often enough. Now Susan and Peter may not be bad people at heart, but their beliefs in and high level of participation in a toxic system such as VF, that hurt so many people, now they get to experience what other members did.

My real sympathy is for Kelly and the kids. They had no say in the clusterf**k that is their lives right now.

[danvillebelle]

Though I am sure Susan Bradrick's current state of distress is very real, I just want to point out again that she and Michael were knee-deep in the fundie homeschooling kool-aid LONG before Dougie was even a blip on the radar. I think it's really just a simple case of motherly hurting because your kid is hurting, which I can relate to.

ETA: not saying I agree with her beliefs or child-rearing practices in any way, shape or form

[hoipolloi]

Bradrick and a few other men confronted Doug, and, as Bradrick said, "What for us was a tender, emotional mission of mercy and a plea for true repentance was met by something and by someone I never could have imagined."

By now we've already discussed the fact that Doug's a narcissist. And what that statement from Peter Bradrick tells me is that he was on the receiving end of full-blown narcissistic rage, perhaps for the first time ever. Doug, cornered and confronted and not in control of the situation, lost his shit--because that's what narcissists do.

Thank you. Very powerful statements and, re: Petey's shock & Susan Bradrick's upset, makes a LOT of sense.

Petey et al. must have thought they'd be dealing with the sorrowful & tender Doug that appears in so many of VF's videos and writes his exhortations to the sheeple - instead, they got a monster.

[hoipolloi]

Though I am sure Susan Bradrick's current state of distress is very real, I just want to point out again that she and Michael were knee-deep in the fundie homeschooling kool-aid LONG before Dougie was even a blip on the radar. I think it's really just a simple case of motherly hurting because your kid is hurting, which I can relate to.

ETA: not saying I agree with her beliefs or child-rearing practices in any way, shape or form

Re: bolded - absolutely true. Here's an upcoming conference sponsored by the organization she & Michael are part of:

See any familiar faces?

[Sister Mozz]

Re: bolded - absolutely true. Here's an upcoming conference sponsored by the organization she & Michael are part of:

See any familiar faces?

Kelly Crawford is a conference speaker now?! What is this world coming to?

Kelly always reminded me of my mother, and believe me, that is not a favorable or happy comparison. Her poor children.

[kaetrin]

Kelly Crawford also hasn't said a word about the VF drama.

[nokidsmom]

Though I am sure Susan Bradrick's current state of distress is very real, I just want to point out again that she and Michael were knee-deep in the fundie homeschooling kool-aid LONG before Dougie was even a blip on the radar. I think it's really just a simple case of motherly hurting because your kid is hurting, which I can relate to.

ETA: not saying I agree with her beliefs or child-rearing practices in any way, shape or form

I have no doubt that Susan is hurting for her son as well and it's a large part of that. But being in a cultish organization with a deified leader at it's head, believing in it's principles, believing it's a guide for life, you can't go wrong and then finding it's all wrong well, it's no doubt compounding it.

[DomWackTroll]

Kelly Crawford is a conference speaker now?! What is this world coming to?

Kelly always reminded me of my mother, and believe me, that is not a favorable or happy comparison. Her poor children.

I thought women weren't supposed to work outside the home. But Kelly is certainly moving up, isn't she?

[copper]

Ok, so discussion of Kelly Crawford's silence led me to Raising Homemakers, and I checked the book list to see if they were still pushing VF fare:

raisinghomemakers.com/books/

While several of the links go back to VF, the products if you go to VF, aren't there at all.

For example: "Raising Maidens of Virtue", it doesn't come up AT ALL:

visionforum.com/store/Search.aspx?SearchTerms=raising%20maidens%20of%20virtue

Another interesting thing about Raising Homemakers --So Much More/It's Not That Complicated are not included in the book listing at all. Does anyone know if it ever was? Interesting that those two books are excluded/not included. Most of the others seems to be there.

[DomWackTroll]

Look at Kim C.'s abdomen in the second photo and please tell me I'm not seeing what I think I'm seeing.

inashoe.com/2013/12/25-days-of-christmas-day-4/

I can already hear her adoring fans: "Oh, you're so brave to trust in the Lord," and yadda yadda yadda.

[Queen Of Hearts]

Look at Kim C.'s abdomen in the second photo and please tell me I'm not seeing what I think I'm seeing.

inashoe.com/2013/12/25-days-of-christmas-day-4/

I can already hear her adoring fans: "Oh, you're so brave to trust in the Lord," and yadda yadda yadda.

Hmmm... I wouldn't bet a lot of money on it yet, but the odds are in favor of her being pregnant since that seems to be her only hobby.

[danvillebelle]

Look at Kim C.'s abdomen in the second photo and please tell me I'm not seeing what I think I'm seeing.

inashoe.com/2013/12/25-days-of-christmas-day-4/

I can already hear her adoring fans: "Oh, you're so brave to trust in the Lord," and yadda yadda yadda.

I, too, hope it's not what you think it is.

Someone needs to teach them how to hang Christmas lights.

I am insanely jealous that she got a bag full of vintage crocheted linens at a GARAGE SALE. :pull-hair: The only thing I ever see at garage sales around here is old VHS tapes and 80's furniture. :disgust:

[snarkyjan]

Re: bolded - absolutely true. Here's an upcoming conference sponsored by the organization she & Michael are part of:

See any familiar faces?

A better name for them would be Murderer's Row.