The Continuing Fall of VF and Doug Phillips is a tool-Part 4

[hoipolloi]

From Peter's FB page (wonder if people don't realize it's completely public now):

...I wanted to share a favorite scripture that our pastor shared with us in 2004 while we were where you are now. Romans 16:17-18 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." Our pastor wrote a letter to Doug expressing much the same feelings you expressed. "Next to my father you have been the most influential man in my life." After going to Doug alone we went in conjunction with our pastor, hoping their was an explanation for what we were experiencing. It is crucial that our leaders are under accountability. Doug didn't have elders in 2004 and his board told us they were a resource board and not an accountability board. His board member that is an attorney threatened to sue us if Doug's reputation was harmed in any way. Based on conversations with the other board members, that member never reported to the board what Doug was involved with from 2001-2004. An accusation against an elder should always be accompanied by evidence and we have 10 large notebooks full. Perhaps if there had been someone that would listen, this present situation could have been averted....

(emphasis added)

[DomWackTroll]

From Peter's FB page (wonder if people don't realize it's completely public now):

(emphasis added)

So, if they went to Doug with their pastor, they obviously weren't members of BCA. Are these people involved in the Raising the Allosaur thing? What year was that?

ETA: Ah, yes they are. Sorry, should have googled before I asked.

raisingthetruth.com/contributors/

[Elinor]

Thanks, Elinor. Sorry if my post confused things -- I guess Josh either wrote the "about" section after starting that site, or kept updating it for a few years.

Any chance of your posting month & year for each, so, in future, we can do the math for ourselves?

Sure. The info was gleaned from Doug's Blog.

Joshua Titus - 5/15/93

Justice Ellis - ?

Liberty - 9/24/96

Jubilee Margaret - 4/5/98

Faith Evangeline - 1/14/00

Howard Honor - 8/26/01

Providence Mather - 12/11/03

Virginia Hope - 10/20/06

[gentlegiant]

"I personally thought that the boy rather resembles the tool's oldest son in the photos he's wearing costumes in. Which lead me to a theory that is as bat shit crazy as everyone's implying the real story is:

Doug latches on to the "making little warriors for Christ" idea (or whatever it is they say) relatively early on in his life. He gets married, starts having children and is blown away that they all adore and worship him as well as having many of his character traits. As the years go on, however, he realises that the patriarchal family crap he has positioned himself as being the supreme promoter of is going to limit the number of children he has. He reasons that raising Christian soldiers for Christ is all very well but he alone is capable of producing messiahs. He reasons that if only he could produce enough children, there is hope for Doug's vision of a patriarchal Christian America. He thus goes about setting up his own cult and brainwashes all members into obeying him and keeping quiet about any odd or unpleasant goings on. He impregnates all female members of his congregation who are all sworn to secrecy on the paternity of their children. He makes all members sign a covenant saying they will never leave the church so that not only are the children biologically Doug's, they can be brainwashed with his ideology too despite the fact that he isn't able to raise them in his own home like his own children. Something at some point goes wrong and his shenanigans are exposed, leading everyone involved in the saga and under the age of 25 to realise that Doug is their father!!!????"

Well now we know why there are so many single young fundies - they're all siblings! :lol:

[teachergirl]

ooohhh.....Nathaniel Darnell has jumped in on his blog saying he has known for "some time" about his sins and weaknesses. Someone sounds a little bitter but this is getting GOOD. Let it all fall down, the whole sick thing.

[thoughtful]

From Peter's FB page (wonder if people don't realize it's completely public now):

ETA - Thanks for the dates, Elinor.

[thoughtful]

Well now we know why there are so many single young fundies - they're all siblings! :lol:

[SamuraiKatz]

ooohhh.....Nathaniel Darnell has jumped in on his blog saying he has known for "some time" about his sins and weaknesses. Someone sounds a little bitter but this is getting GOOD. Let it all fall down, the whole sick thing.

Which blog is Darnell's? Perservero?

[WonderingInWA]

Which blog is Darnell's? Perservero?

Yes. Our boy Darnell and his blog post were discussed further up in the thread (don't have time to find it right now). It might have been yesterday we discussed it. In essence, he took the high road, explaining why he didn't react publicly until now, and that he's admittedly known about Doug's moral issues for a long time. I think that's why he left the VF crowd when he did -- he could see the writing on the wall and didn't want anything to do with it. He writes well, and his post was impressive from a readability standpoint.

[nelliebelle1197]

This.

Even if the point was to intimate that she must have had some dirt on Doug, and that's why he didn't punish her, why go into every tiny detail, except to further shame this woman and/or stir shit?

Here, look at how short it can be:

"There was a situation in which Doug didn't react as he usually did to behavior that went against his teachings. We think the person who was let off the hook might have had information about Doug's own misbehavior."

And I'm hardly known for being concise. If I can do it, anyone can!

Not to mention that, if they know what it is, they could simply tell us what this woman knew about Doug's doings.

One wonders if Douggie wasn't cutting the lady some slack because he knew she was grieving the death of her brother as he too was apparently grieving that death. Maybe he was dealing with this differently because the family was close to him and he was showing compassion. Maybe she does have some sort of mental illness and the church through Doug was treating her kindly. Who knows? But I doubt there was dirt. I hope there wasn't just because I am really disliking the Jen's Gems people and kinda want them to be wrong.

[SamuraiKatz]

Yes. Our boy Darnell and his blog post were discussed further up in the thread (don't have time to find it right now). It might have been yesterday we discussed it. In essence, he took the high road, explaining why he didn't react publicly until now, and that he's admittedly known about Doug's moral issues for a long time. I think that's why he left the VF crowd when he did -- he could see the writing on the wall and didn't want anything to do with it. He writes well, and his post was impressive from a readability standpoint.

Thanks. Remembering who belongs to what blog is getting difficult. There are so many.

[MissBitters]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet but I have been keeping up with this particular blog for a long time. I was wondering about how she & her family were doing after not updating for a while. I was pretty shocked reading this today:

wherethekudzugrows.com/2013/12/betrayal-reevaluation-and-the-rejection-of-legalism/

I'm glad she apologized to her daughter about discouraging college!

[debrand]

I wonder if Scott Brown's latest article is directed at Dougie.

The Bible exalts husbands who model humility and service toward their wives instead of parading themselves in the public spotlight.

scottbrownonline.com/give-me-more-boring-men/#more-12432

[RosyDaisy]

RosyDaisy, sorry to have been handslappy, and you weren't to know. It was an innocent mistake.

No problem. :)

[Want More Babies]

I wonder if Scott Brown's latest article is directed at Dougie.

scottbrownonline.com/give-me-more-boring-men/#more-12432

Or maybe Mark Driscoll?

[WonderingInWA]

I wonder if Scott Brown's latest article is directed at Dougie.

scottbrownonline.com/give-me-more-boring-men/#more-12432

Interesting. And definitely aimed at Doug Phillips is a Tool. What's interesting, though, is that his own son-in-law Peter Bradrick parades himself in the public spotlight, too, just not in costume. There's a fine line (or maybe no line) between that flamboyant showcaser and the manly man fanfare. It's all "look at meeeeee!". It's boastful and obnoxious. Peter learned it from the master Dougie so Scott needs to be reminded of that since Bradrick! is part of the family.

[RosyDaisy]

Not sure if we have talked in-depth about the deep distress that Bradrick's mother Susan seems to be going through:

On facebook.com/peterbradrick/posts/10201110628553296 we have her saying "Still crying", which I can understand from a mother involved in her son's life, after his betrayal by a mentor.

Then we have Stacy McD saying to Susan, "My heart is breaking for you and your mama's heart. I am praying for you as well, sweet sister." And there is another post near the bottom, directed to Susan saying they are praying for her family. One would think that she might address that to Peter instead, but perhaps she knows Susan better than she does Peter.

But I am a little confused by this post from another lady: "Peter, many are praying for you, including those you don't even know. Susan, my mother's heart can't imagine the pain. We are praying for you too."

Her words to Susan seem to be what one would use for someone who has gone through a personal loss or deep trauma directed to a child…..was Peter's ditching by Doug really THAT much of an upset? I suppose it could be, given how he says the past decade of his life has been defined by his relationship with Doug! Anyways, it will be interesting to see if there are any more developments from Bradrick. Wondered if any of you all have thoughts about this…do we know anything else about how deeply Bradrick's parents, particularly his mother, are involved in the patriarchy movement?

[Edited to break link]

I think Peter's reaction would be normal for someone who is a koolaid-holic that sees his idol and ministry suffer a huge fall from grace. Peter's whole life, the life that was deeply immersed in is over. So it's understandable that Peter would react this way. Don't get me wrong, I don't feel the least bit sorry for Peter. I do feel sorry for Kelly and the kids. They need a husband and father, not a man wallowing in grief. But of course, they are just an afterthought.

[Cleopatra7]

If anything, this scandal shows what bunk this patriarchy garbage is. These men love to talk about "character," protecting the weak, and manliness, but when the time to exhibit real fortitude happens, they completely fail the test. And they wonder why so many people are turned off by their message. The Bible says "By their fruits ye shall know them" (paraphrased), and all I see is a pile of rotten, moldy, produce.

[WonderingInWA]

I think Peter's reaction would be normal for someone who is a koolaid-holic that sees his idol and ministry suffer a huge fall from grace. Peter's whole life, the life that was deeply immersed in is over. So it's understandable that Peter would react this way. Don't get me wrong, I don't feel the least bit sorry for Peter. I do feel sorry for Kelly and the kids. They need a husband and father, not a man wallowing in grief. But of course, they are just an afterthought.

Peter has been a fool to think that all that gallivanting around to Haiti and God knows where else was a job that a 20-something dick like him raised on a farm with no formal education was going to last him a lifetime. At some point, you have to think for yourself (which I guess he's doing now, a wife and 5 kids later). He's an idiot -- not only did his homeschool education not teach him anything about recognizing people like Dougie for what they are, he's making an ass of himself by refusing to admit he needs a real education and a real job. It's nice his father-in-law gave him a job, but somebody had to, right? What are his skills aside from directing manly men to do push-ups and talking all big and fierce-like about manly groups of manly men congregating in times of CRISIS!

ETA: I wonder if that's the real reason Kelly stopped pumping out the babies. He realized he wasn't going to be able to support any more of them once Fantasyland came crumbling down and maybe having 1400 kids wasn't such a great idea afterall. At least he's still got his brood and his manly stance to prove his virility.

[Sister Mozz]

I agree with those saying Susan Bradrick's words and the responses directed towards her are over the top. Is it possible that the reason she's still crying is because she's helping Hero? Is the Bradrick home a safe place for Hero to process everything? If Susan were in the middle of helping her, that would make more sense. Washington is a long way from Texas, but maybe that's what Hero needs.

Now hopping off the Idle Speculation Bus for a while...

[ladyamylynn]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet but I have been keeping up with this particular blog for a long time. I was wondering about how she & her family were doing after not updating for a while. I was pretty shocked reading this today:

wherethekudzugrows.com/2013/12/betrayal-reevaluation-and-the-rejection-of-legalism/

I'm glad she apologized to her daughter about discouraging college!

Holy Fuck! I have been following this family for years- since the two daughters had the blog "Stay at Home Daughters." They were my gateway fundies. I give her a bit of credit for this post. I wish well on her eldest daughter, Kathryn, who apparently is a college student with a real job.

[Bethie42]

Well, this is always their way out of any "problems" that people encounter when trying to follow their cult doctrines: You're Doing It Wrong.

It's the same thing with Michael & Debi Pearl. The people who murdered their children by beating them to death in accordance with TTUAC were "doing it wrong." That's why the Pearls bear no responsibility for any of it.

BTW, I certainly didn't construe your comments as giving Susan Bradrick a pass and I apologize if my remarks implied that!

No worries :)

Yes, the response to anything that goes wrong is to further blame the victim--they weren't holy enough/didn't try hard enough/missed the point.

Hugs to you Bethie42. You're so not alone.

And for all the thousands of girls like you, there are just as many thousands of women like me, who felt the same way but as mothers...never measuring up, never making the schedule work, never getting the house clean enough, never getting the children obedient enough, obsessing over the right homeschooling curriculum, ad nauseum ad infinitum. That is why I have no shame in enjoying seeing these bastards go down in flames (though I do feel sorry for the minor children).

I am so glad I got out of the VF/Botkins/Maxwell crap when I did. My daughters are 15 and 13 now; they attend a church with a youth group, everyone wears jeans, they go to the movies with their friends to obsess over cute guys they love (Thor! Loki!) and just generally have a good time. We do still homeschool, but we always have and it's just a way of life for us.

Doug Phillips will always and forever be a Tool.

Thank you :) Recently I have moved from focusing on the pain of the daughters of patriarchy alone, to recognizing that often our parents were just as hurt and pressured. Hugs to you too--I have a special respect for the parents who leave patriarchy, because I think often they had more to lose, and many are too prideful to admit they were wrong. (Not that they're more prideful than anyone else, it is just hard for any of us to admit that something we actively promoted or imposed on someone else wasn't true.) Thank you for that.

In my fictional story about a couple of patriarchal families, I started off having the main character be a teenage daughter, but I am realizing more and more the impact that the movement would have had on the mother as well. I want to avoid demonizing the parents, and show just how damaged someone can be by a movement that promises them a perfect life and happy children if they measure up spiritually.

One of the biggest 'life lessons' I have learned from all this is that good, well-meaning people who want the best for their loved ones can do truly awful things. It can be difficult to find a balance between empathy for folks who truly wanted to protect and help their families, and not giving people a free pass for the wrong they have done, on the other hand. That's why I'm of two minds about Truth Lasts' post at JensGems…I understand and agree with the anger, but I think it's unwise to condemn everyone who was ever misguided or foolish enough to darken BCA's doorstep. I do agree that harsh words are often needed to wake people up to reality--particularly those people who are still supporting VF/DP, and are saying that his mission is still good.

There certainly is a point when people are clearly just ignoring common sense, and ignoring their family's pain….and I don't have a lot of sympathy for parents, however well-meaning, who refuse to listen to their children's protests. However, I personally want to extend a little more mercy to people who sincerely thought they were doing what was right, wanted to please God, and may not have seen how these beliefs actually hurt their children. I don't think there is any call to shame repentant, ex-VFers as TruthLasts seems to be doing. I guess, for a Christian, sometimes the hardest thing about forgiveness can be knowing where to draw the line: whom do we forgive and receive back into our lives, and whom do we forgive, but speak out against and do not let them hurt us or others again...

[Aunt Bee]

Re Susan's anguish, does Peter have any female siblings?

[WonderingInWA]

Re Susan's anguish, does Peter have any female siblings?

Peter comes from a very large family. He has sisters, yes -- at least 4-5 that I can think of. Some older and married (one of them has 6 kids), and then two that have been married within the last few years. He has one, Cecily, who I think is still single.

[Lillybee]

I feel for poor Kelly who should realize that by now that her husband is also a tool.