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Showing results for tags 'vision forum'.
Found 52 results
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How I found that there was So Much More to life than being a SAHD
dripcurl posted a topic in Quiver Full of Snark
Hello! I have been wanting to do this for a few months now, and I finally have the time. As much as I wanted to burn it, I decided to keep my old copy of the notorious So Much More. Why? Because I as much as I hate it now, reading (and re-reading) it was a pivotal event in my life. And I forgot how much I had marked in it. So now, it’s time for me to share and for us to snark together! But first, some background on me and why I was once a Stay at Home Daughter. I grew up with a psychologically and financially abusive father. I hope that most readers here understand that the effects of this can be just as detrimental as physical abuse in it’s own, complex way. Unfortunately, the suffering did not end and begin when he was in the room. His behavior affected my entire family, and being the oldest child, I did pick up many of the proverbial pieces. I was and still am a Christian, and was homeschooled, which I regard as a highly positive experience for me. Because he would become jealous when my mother had friends, his sabotaging efforts often rendered my family somewhat isolated.My brother is special needs, and my sisters are so much younger than for most of my formative years I was the one who brought most of the social interaction into our home. And since my mother was somewhat isolated, and did not dare tell the friends that she did have what was going on, I was the automatic ear that lended her long suffering. As I became a teenager, I was becoming more and more aware of who my dad really was. I did not have much to go off of since he refused to interact with me most of the time, and the times he did usually were forced and disgruntled. The few times we have had positive, natural interaction was because he wanted something. To boot, my family was involved in a horrific church, that my parents were determined to “fix”. I realized how unstable my options for relying on others were, and mixed with a fortitude to not be like my parents, I decided to passionately invest my young adult years into preparing myself for a “true Christian husband”. But I still was not ready to let go of repairing a relationship with my dad, and I wanted my dad to be better for my family’s sake. Lucky for me, we received a Vision Forum catalog in the mail in Fall of 2009 (due to the various Christian homeschooling activities I was involved with) and the rest is history. My Mom immediately ordered “Return of the Daughters” and I was completely dazzled with the idea of a father caring enough to provide for his daughters until their husbands could step in. I was even more smitten with the idea of a father joyfully spending time with his daughter even as an adult. I was not against, nor was I raised against, finding independence of my own through education and/or a career. However, my desire for an authentic, happy relationship with my dad was so strong, I was desparate to find something. How could I get all of this to work though? Enter So Much More. I received it that Christmas and I considered it an answer to prayer. THIS was how I could finally make my dad like me. Upon reading it, I was convinced that this entire time, my father was merely “discouraged” that his wife and daughter were not submitting to his authority, thus he acted out in other ways. Same old Botkin shit - it’s never the man’s fault. I was extra thankful that only would having a submissive heart bring me closer to my dad, but it would someday attract a strong Christian man into my life. It seemed like a win-win. However now, at almost 24, I do not even consider my dad my dad, and I am single woman (living on her own with a new career, yay!) who is very discouraged by men at this time, but I don’t want to let my experience turn me cynical. The long and short of it is that I am equal parts bitter and thankful for how trying to be good SAHD shaped my life, and that I hope this project of mine not only provides productive discourse about the dangers of this brand of femininity, but will also encourage everyone to take ownership of their experiences and look to a better future for themselves. That is easier said than done for me, I am pessimist by nature and struggle with moderate depression. ****If you’re still reading at this point, here’s my plan for contributing to this thread: • As of right now, I plan to to draw my material specifically from my highlighted copy of So Much More from my teen years. • I hope to directly tie in a personal story about my stint as a SAHD along with each critique of whatever passage I once loved. • I will post these periodically, hopefully once a week or so. As for right now, I think this long winded introduction should provide for a good discussion, and I want to answer, clarify, and engage in as much as I can. One last disclaimer: I am almost 24 years old and just recently moved out. This in no way means I held onto a SAHD ideology for that long. In fact, my main reason for staying at home was financial as I was exploring my higher education. Also, as I explained earlier, I have a unique family situation and was quite codependent with my mom. I would say I only subscribed to such fundamentalist beliefs from the time I was 15 to age 19. -
Nathan Daher/Hannah Braniger Wedding (Photos)
DomWackTroll posted a topic in Doug Phillips & Vision Forum
Only about 5 million photos, courtesy of Melissa Niednagel, who of course looked amazing and perfect three weeks after giving birth to an infant who of course was a perfect angel throughout the entire event. Needless to say, it was a retro hipster nightmare-- with no alcohol, as far as I could see! -
WELS/LCMS Lutheran, Pentecostals, Niednagel Calvinism & ATI/Vision Forum, IFB, Calvary Chapel, ohmy!
Khendra posted a topic in SOTDRT
Hi all. Old member returning here. Some of you may remember my association with the Niednagel family. Still trying to get my Christian views and living into perspective. As with most things in life that are important, it hasn't been easy. For those unfamiliar, I was actually raised in a happy, non-legalistic, broadly conservative Christian home (WELS Lutheran first and then vaguely Pentecostal later). My brother had a tragic death in 1997, my late mother retreated into watching TBN even more than she did before (I learned later that this wasn't good, I know), my parents left church and did home-study for years after that (and became obsessed with the End Times, along with an idiosyncratic and completely unorthodox view that people can be saved after they die, hence no interest in evangelism per se), and I myself went through an agnostic period in my late teens and early twenties (2003-2005). Around that time, I also became increasingly acquainted the famous/infamous Niednagel family through their Brain Types theory and a shared interest in basketball and other sports (my late mother and I were huge basketball fans), returned to Christianity in 2005 (though not because of the Niednagels, whose version of Christianity I was still ignorant of -- but because of a vision that I was leading a fornicating and unbelieving life and would go to hell if I didn't repent), later learned all about Calvinism and ATI/Vision Forum and the Stay-At-Home Daughters movement through the Niednagels (2007-2012), subsequently got completely confused over what type of Christianity was best (2012-2013ish and beyond), got disheartened over the perceived inadequacies of my alleged "Brain Type," attended Calvary Chapel for a few years (2013-2017), then attended an IFB church for half a year (2017 through early part of this year), witnessed my mother's passing (Feb of this year), and now am with the LCMS church (April to present). My husband, whom I married in 2016 and met back in 2004 when I was agnostic, remains skeptical of theism, but has never dissuaded me from my faith when I returned to it in 2005. My father still attends Calvary Chapel, yet his laid-back theism is essentially this: Jesus is the Only Way, but there are no hills worth dying on after that (and yes, he remains convinced that people can be saved after they die, and has no interest in debating politics and religion with people, though he is supportive of Trump and doesn't think transgenderism or homosexuality is right, but refrains from judging the eternal state of such people). He's enjoying the single life, golfing, food, drink, and basically the "eat drink and be merry" type of life. He could have no more gotten into the Niednagels' version of controlling and rigid patriarchy than fly to the moon. They look down on him as a generic FCIR "Brain Type." Contrary to what the Niednagels think, I don't think that's an entirely bad thing. So I've pretty much seen and analyzed the whole spectrum of conservative Christianity, even as I approach merely my mid-thirties. I'm now at the stage of, what is truly important? I don't believe secularism, liberalism, or other faiths hold the answers from what I've perceived and studied -- but conservative Protestant Christianity is so divided that it's been tough to navigate the terrains, especially since my parents weren't exactly theologically rigorous themselves. Becoming affiliated with the Niednagels, and witnessing the hair-splitting tendencies of Calvinists, really opened my eyes. I also learned about all kinds of other things my less-than-systematic parents ignored, like how the Pentecostal dispensationalism my mother embraced for the final twenty or so years of her life is COMPLETELY at odds with the Wisconsin Synod Lutheran upbringing she touted so much, how my father is perceived as theologically weak even by Calvary Chapel standards, and just how little doctrine my parents imparted compared to other conservative Christian factions. My parents were always like, "this doesn't pertain to salvation, so don't worry about it!" Even in somewhat more stringent Calvary Chapel circles, the message always is, "it's a relationship, not a religion" -- way too fluffy for the likes of Calvinism! The Niednagels and other Calvinists, instead, were always like, "you need to engage the analytic concrete left brain more, Christianity is about rules and regulations which you abstract right brainers struggle with meeting, you need to analyze Scripture in context with the left brain instead of your dominant right brain, God may be love but that is not all He is, holiness is a mandate, women are property" etc. Not convinced either of these extremes are good anymore, tbh. I wouldn't say my parents were outright Antinomians, but they were close. And I do think there are Scriptural and practical problems with that. But I'm also skeptical of the pride, hypocrisy, and legalism of the Niednagels and other Calvinists. I don't think their way is Scripturally right or balanced, either. I like the LCMS because I think their doctrines make the most sense, theologically and practically. I don't want to write a treatise here, so if you want further analysis of these people and groups, and how their beliefs, doctrines, and practices pertain to Scripture (or lack thereof), feel free to ask. I'm just giving background for context here to start. Oh, and if you follow Michelle Lesley's web site, I was the one who recently asked about the Great Commission and women's roles. -
Michael Thomas and Pal Start Youtube Sex Channel
DomWackTroll posted a topic in Doug Phillips & Vision Forum
And guess what, bro? Blow jobs are TOTALLY AWESOME!!! -
Hello! I wanted to start reading the threads on DPIAT but have no idea where this started or where to look. Can anyone help?! Thanks!
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Awhile back, I mentioned making a thread about ATI beliefs vs VF beliefs. I know it's been a few weeks and I'm sorry - I got swamped with my final paper for my class (which I got a B in!), I got seriously ill, my doctor changed my anti depressant and I'm still adjusting, etc. I'm now able to make the post and point out some of the theological differences. Again, I am so sorry it took so long. ATI is Calvinist in belief. To put it simply, here are some basics on Calvinism. I'm pretty well-versed in it, as a common debate at my old school was Calvinism vs Arminianism. Calvin can best be summed up in the "Calvin's Tulip". There is much more to it, of course (which I can expand on if people have questions) but it gives it a simple summary. Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin) Unconditional Election Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement) Irresistible Grace Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved) (http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm) So, these are the basics of Calvinism. You can also read more here: http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/calvinTULIP.html Which explains it far better than I could in my slightly groggy, drug-changing state. VF, on the other hand, is Baptist. Which, here is a link: http://www.wordmp3.com/files/gs/einwechter.htm So, how are they the same? How do they differ? Glad you asked! These links sum it up well! http://www.baptistpillar.com/article_166.html http://www.biblebelievers.net/calvinism/kjcalvn1.htm I apologize for the massive amount of links, but I figured I should cite my sources. And anyone who wants to read more about how Calvinism and Baptism differ and are similar. I can answer questions or provide more links if anyone wants more reading than the massive amount here, but, I hope this helps answer some questions!
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Hey guys. Deanna Coghlan here. I'm in a mood and I want to talk shit about DPIAT and Vision Forum. I'll answer some questions about my childhood if I deem them appropriate, but I'm not looking to gossip about my family. For real though I want to talk shit. Ask me lol
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On this, the one year anniversary of what will forever be known as Tool O'Ween, I give you, an LOLDOUG! Let us take this day to mock into oblivion the biggest tool that ever lived! Post some new LOLs, repost your favorites, dig up his greatest quotes. Go nuts. As I was at work one year ago when all the shit hit the fan, I'm am commemorating today by WFH, so look for LOLs throughout the day. Doug Phillips is a Tool!
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And telling us who to vote for: One of his "friends" is dismayed at this advice, because the candidate's married daughter hyphenates her last names! Some other Dumb Dora thanks Doug for his manly leadership, which has been so lacking in his absence. You just know that Doug and Spanks have been hanging on the phone like two thirteen-year-old girls, excitedly planning their dual comeback.
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Doug Phillips & Vision Forum & Lourdes - Part 2
happy atheist posted a topic in Doug Phillips & Vision Forum
I haven't been keeping up with this. The last I knew, Lourdes was divorcing Nolan, and he wasn't coping well. I encourage anyone with more knowledge than me to post a quick recap of recent topics. Part 1: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21996 Older thread about this stuff: Previous Lourdes Manteufel threads: Part 1: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21549 Part 2: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21709 Previous Doug Phillips (is a tool) threads: Part 1: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19831 Part 2: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19945 Part 3: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20076 Part 4: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20272 Part 5: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20492 Part 6: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20934 Part 7: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21372 Part 8: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21590 -
Jen Fishburne’s Daughter Natasha Epstein in Big Trouble
DomWackTroll posted a topic in Doug Phillips & Vision Forum
She’s accused of— gulp— helping to hide the body of a murder victim. http://www.ksat.com/content/pns/ksat/ne ... o-cre.html Jen asks for your prayers: facebook.com/Jensgems/posts/10207045252956930?pnref=story Natasha’s FB page: facebook.com/tashanastasiaJAP?pnref=story Natasha was once the best friend of Doug Phillips' victim, Lourdes Torres. -
You decide! Former Vision Forum wunderkind John Robert Moore is gushing about his most recent project, “Chasing American Legends,” a reality TV show about Texas politician Rick Green and his family doing “history” stuff (and shootin' guns!) to teach kids. https://www.facebook.com/thepaladinian/posts/10152914191269649?pnref=story Let’s have a look at Rick Green’s Wikipedia page, shall we? “Green is associated with WallBuilders, an organization that seeks to present America's ‘forgotten’ history as a Christian nation.[4] WallBuilders was founded by former Texas Republican vice-chairman David Barton of Aledo, Texas.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Green_(Texas_politician) Yes, that David Barton! Here’s the WallBuilders website: “To assist in the formation of sound public policy, we have established the WallBuilders' ProFamily Legislative Network. This arm of WallBuilders monitors and collects pro-family legislation from the various states in over a dozen different areas (e.g., marriage, abortion, education, public morality, gambling, parental rights) which we then make available to legislators and activists in other states at their request, thus enabling pro-family legislation to be introduced in states across America.” http://www.wallbuilders.com/ABTOverview.asp But more on Rick: He’s endorsed by James Dobson of Focus on the Family, Mathew Staver of the Liberty Counsel, Kelly Shackelford of the Liberty Institute, Cathie Adams of the Texas Eagle Forum, and Chuck Norris of the Rightwing A-Holes League. http://rickgreen4texas.com/ Wow, John Robert Moore! It must be totally awesome to “leave Dominionism” and add stuff like ample-bosomed burlesque performers, bisexuality, and polyamory to your life but still make money pushing sexism, racism, and homophobia on others. Tell us again about your amazing “journey” and how much you’ve learned.
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Switching sides - ATIers going Reformed, or vice versa?
FoxyMoxie posted a topic in General Religion Questions & Discussion
Thinking about Benessa and baby Spurgeon Seewald got me thinking - if Vision Forum were still around, I could see them trying to get in with that crowd (although I know the crowd is still around, if fractured) although I feel like VF would look down on them as 'nouveau riche'. I certainly think the Seewalds Jr are heading Reformedwards. Are there any other ATIers/non-Reformed types heading that way, or vice versa? I guess Lina going Catholic was a pretty big switcheroo. -
I want to thank Jordan Niednagel, from my heart, for ten years of so beautifully documenting the wild and wacky world of Dominionism! Who can forget all the awesome, candid photos of dozens of Vision Forum events? The unintentionally hilarious (and revealing) home videos? The intimate tour of the interior of the Botkin home? The hot, half-naked brothers-in-law? (Wait, wut?) Congrats, Jordan, on a job well done under oftentimes trying circumstances. VF may be gone, but our mem’ries live on in your always stunning pics and always asinine commentary. http://www.niednagel.com/blog.htm
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Well it's been 2 years since the day Doug Phillips fell from grace, or as he puts it, "The day the costume parties died". Let us take this day to do what we here can do like no other site on the internet, mock Doug into oblivion so Google will always know that Doug Phillips is a Tool! Post your favorite LOLDOUGS or make some new ones, and reminisce about shenanigans we laid upon him (the poll bomb, hacking his wikipedia page).
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WW ii reenactments continue from the folk of VF
love2scrap posted a topic in Doug Phillips & Vision Forum
Sep 25-26: they continue to play dress-up with soldier uniforms and plenty of red lipstick, after dougie's fall. Courters, seargeants, verniers, bowmans, verrets, and other people i dont recognize in attendance. Boyer sisters sang. instagram.com/rememberingwwii Or check out the hashtag #rememberingwwii instagram.com/explore/tags/rememberingwwii -
Beall posted this photo on FB of her looking very pretty and grown up: facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1135644953129467&set=p.1135644953129467&type=3&theater ETA: Among those who “liked†the post: James Pennington, Susan Disharoon, Emily Gunn, Kevin Turley, Joel Wean, Deborah Yuck, Bonnie Chancey, Wesley Strackbein, and Breezy Brookshire. Doug’s tragically Catholic mother, Margaret Phillips, left her Catholic germs in the thread.
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I got a VF catalog today in the mail(that's a whole thread by itself), and i saw a whole page in there featuring DVDs by the West ladies. I've seen them around before and keep meaning to ask what the deal is with them. Obviously, they're very handy with sewing, cooking, gardening, etc... and I'm guessing they are fundie of some variant since they are in the VF catalog. Does anyone know where they fit into everything? I'd heard of a lot of the VF crowd at least in passing before this, but the Wests are new to me.
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Thought I would start a new thread to "bet" on whether Dougie will eventually settle rather than "let the jury/judge decide." Mods....Please move/merge as you deem appropriate. I''m guess they'll settle out of court, at the very last minute, because there's so much evidence against Dougie. His ego will object, but his attorney will implore. What think FJers?
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All Things Doug Phillips & VF, Including Lourdes's Lawsuit
happy atheist posted a topic in Doug Phillips & Vision Forum
! {TEXT1}: Since the separate threads both deal with Doug the Tool, and both have slowed down so much, we're going to combine discussion here. Previous Lourdes Manteufel threads: Part 1: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21549 Part 2: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21709 Previous Doug Phillips (is a tool) threads: Part 1: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19831 Part 2: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19945 Part 3: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20076 Part 4: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20272 Part 5: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20492 Part 6: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20934 Part 7: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21372 Part 8: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21590 -
Something Up With the Phillipses?
GenerationCedarchip posted a topic in Doug Phillips & Vision Forum
I know that apparently some of the Phillips clan was in DC recently (good spot, CND!), but I was wondering if there was something else afoot with them. I don't have any specific info, but someone in my family forwarded me a recent (almost 2 weeks old) prayer loop posting from the old fundie farm. Since it's private email loop, I don't want to reproduce here, but the request has to do with family situations rather than the lawsuit, and it sounds like there is clearly something going on besides the legal issue. As much as DPIAT creeps me out, I do hope the children(well, young adults, some of them) are okay. Has anyone heard anything? -
Phillips co-opting World War2 - how long o lard
MamaJunebug posted a topic in Doug Phillips & Vision Forum
When CloakNDagger posted this over in the Lourdes lawsuit thread, ...I, as the daughter of a WW2 soldier (my dad) and an defense-industry factory worker (momma), felt a rising outrage. Let's see, if my history is right, all the 70th anniversaries of the ending of that awful war will end some time this year. Thus, Dougie's daughters (and I fault him, not them) have a limited window of opportunity to either... (a) fete the gallant greatest generationers who are still around or (b) parade themselves and their father-mandated patriarchal message ...depending on your point of view, of course. Snark #1: The CNN cutline writer reported that vets told Faith & Juby that they "reminded them of girls they used to date." Ooooo, horrors, they used the "d" word! Snark #2: Where's the other "d" word, Dougie? F&J are out there in part because they're pretty young women who've gone to some trouble to get reproduction frocks made and do up their hair semi-authentically. And one of them sings. But that can't be all there is to their appearances on the Mall. Snark #3: After BigMommaJB had died and while BDJB was still getting around pretty well, we saw where there was going to be a WW2 battle reenactment/interpretation at a local park with a long military history. Offered BDJB a ride there. BigDad was not a sentimental man nor given to displays of emotion, but he got very quiet and said gently, "You go. And don't feel bad about it. But I can't." If the 90-somethings who are still around are okay with the commemorations and celebrations, I say all power to them. And for we baby boomers who know that demonstrating history is usually far more effective at interesting youth than just giving them a book or movie, I have no criticism. I don't even criticize the Phillips daughters for their participation. But I'm ready at the drop of a helmet to tear apart ANY kind of glory Doug or his successor, Scott Brown, try to grab. -
A young woman known by "Bethany" met a young man in a Christian organization at college and they were mutually attracted immediately. Along the way, he helped her get an A in a tough class, and to thank him, she remembered that he'd said his family almost never had money to eat out at a nice place, so she invited him to dinner. They went out, he insisted on paying, they were obviously in love, and for all intents and purposes were engaged to be married. Then his parents - devoted disciples of Doug Phillips' Vision Forum cult, got involved. Long story short, the young couple didn't make it. Bethany is recovering, but her ex ... well, read for yourself, if you wish: Almost trapped .... trapped. Bethany was almost trapped -- her ex, his parents and siblings, not so lucky. As Julie Anne at SSB points out, Dougie is now a member-in-good-standing of a non-family-integrated church, and who knows what forces he is marshaling for a return to wholesale deception. He's quiet, but he's not gone away. He'll never go away. He and his foul cronies in patriarchialism and theonomy must be monitored and brought to light and disputed.
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Vision Forum Supporting Cast - Where are they now?
copper posted a topic in Doug Phillips & Vision Forum
Someone mentioned the other day that Bradrick! is no longer including Vision Forum on his LinkedIn profile. This lead to other searching, and does anyone remember Josh Wean? Former VF CFO, with some weird family issue? Well, he is now working at Costa Solutions, a logistics company. A company that is alll about advertising just how godly they are! All VF mentions are gone from his profile as well. Anyone know anything about Costa? Is it a Leninger connection? And does anyone know what Natty Darnell is up to? Apparently his law degree is going to good use training insurance agents on how to be insurance agents. Some of the other interns are also on ...interesting paths. It would be cool to see if we could come up with a results survey to see what magnificent leaders they've become.
