The Continuing Fall of VF and Doug Phillips is a tool-Part 4

[Palimpsest]

I just had a sickening thought. What if this isn't all about Doug the Tool, but Joshua or one of his older kids? Maybe that's the reason for the evasiveness? If this was a simple case of Doug sticking his tool where it didn't belong or a cougar gone wild. Those women would have been publically outed and thrown under the bus given how they treat women.

I'm sure the family is extremely shocked and have been told to say nothing at all about the situation. I think we should be very careful about speculating about Doug's children. I can't remember how old Josh and Justice are exactly, but we don't snark/speculate about minors here.

I think the situation can be as just simple as Doug Phillips misusing his position and powers to sexually harass women and engaging in financial misconduct.

The "cougar," I'd prefer to call her Mrs Robinson, seems to be a wild card or red herring flung out by TW and Jen to pay off a personal grudge against her. It is unclear that she did anything illegal and their claims that she had a mysterious hold over Doug are not proven.

Jen and TW are pearl clutching because this woman did not behave modestly enough by BCA standards, embarrassed VF interns, and mysteriously ensorcelled half the men in the church -- and no-one did anything! Jen gets all bent out of shape because she thinks it is terrible that Mrs Robinson made young men think lustful thoughts.

I have news for Jen -- thinking lustful thoughts is pretty normal in adolescence. What I think is terrible is that the young men and young women have been taught that lustful thoughts are shameful and are not given guidance in how to deal with flirtatious and/or even predatory people.

The worst thing that they have against Mrs Robinson is that she is a married woman who seems to have had an affair with a consenting adult several years younger than herself. He was 18. She did not kidnap him. He drove himself to her house.

That whole story has elements of farce. The husband doesn't seem to mind. The suspicious father doesn't intervene with his son, caution him against the Jezebel, throw him out of the house, or even take away his car keys. Instead they arrange for the husband to be off in the woods contemplating end times with Dougie.

Dad puts a GPS in the young man's truck, musters other church members, tracks his son to Mrs Robinson's house and engineers the whole thing for the maximum humiliation of his son. Actually, we don't know whether the affair was even consummated. The poor young man was forced to flee through the bedroom window when the angry mob lead by his dad arrived. :shrug: I do feel sorry for that unfortunate young man, but not because he wanted a bit of nookie. I'm sure he was totally humiliated and shamed.

[Hisey]

Thanks for pointing out the info about the Life in the Shoe family. I had been wondering about them.

I think LiaS is an interesting example of how patriarchy (and this lifestyle) is a giant fail. If Perry and Kim had stopped at four kids, they'd now have four teens and a grown woman who could go out and earn money now. Instead, there are a bunch of undereducated teens and tons of little kids and babies in the family, and Kim could possibly have more. A huge expense and responsibility, and it really limits Kim's working options.

If Kim had been able to work, they'd have another source of income now, and far more security. If the kids had been properly educated, the older ones might have enough skills (in computer science, or a vocational skill perhaps) to get a job that pays better than Dairy Queen. That is where the oldest, Deanna, worked when she first got married. I've got nothing against Dairy Queen, but I would imagine it only pays minimum wage.

A scary-looking man like Perry, who will not work with women, who is in his mid-forties, is going to have a hard time finding good-paying work. At least they live in the city now.

Actually, that reminds me of another problem. When they were living in that broken down shack with the rats, I imagine they had little or no mortgage. However, I would bet their new home in the city has a mortgage. I hope, for the sake of those kids, they do not lose their home over this.

[thoughtful]

I think the situation can be as just simple as Doug Phillips misusing his position and powers to sexually harass women and engaging in financial misconduct.

The "cougar," I'd prefer to call her Mrs Robinson, seems to be a wild card or red herring flung out by TW and Jen to pay off a personal grudge against her. It is unclear that she did anything illegal and their claims that she had a mysterious hold over Doug are not proven.

This.

Even if the point was to intimate that she must have had some dirt on Doug, and that's why he didn't punish her, why go into every tiny detail, except to further shame this woman and/or stir shit?

Here, look at how short it can be:

"There was a situation in which Doug didn't react as he usually did to behavior that went against his teachings. We think the person who was let off the hook might have had information about Doug's own misbehavior."

And I'm hardly known for being concise. If I can do it, anyone can!

Not to mention that, if they know what it is, they could simply tell us what this woman knew about Doug's doings.

[Queen Of Hearts]

Hisey, don't underestimate the income Kim at In A Shoe brings in. She has a huge blog following. If McMama is any indication, blogging can be quite lucrative. Heck, I have a couple small blogs and I bring in a few hundred most months from ad deals. A big blog like LIAS will bring in a lot more from ads, affiliates, etc. Kim also runs 'Frugal hacks' so there is money there, too. I think it is no coincidence that after many months of ignoring both blogs, Kim started putting full effort into them again just a month or two before the news about Doug Phillips (Tool, Esq.) publicly broke. She knew what was coming.

[hoipolloi]

Hisey, don't underestimate the income Kim at In A Shoe brings in. She has a huge blog following. If McMama is any indication, blogging can be quite lucrative. Heck, I have a couple small blogs and I bring in a few hundred most months from ad deals. A big blog like LIAS will bring in a lot more from ads, affiliates, etc. Kim also runs 'Frugal hacks' so there is money there, too. I think it is no coincidence that after many months of ignoring both blogs, Kim started putting full effort into them again just a month or two before the news about Doug Phillips (Tool, Esq.) publicly broke. She knew what was coming.

Bingo.

[last_one_picked]

Yeah, but remember, he's got over 2300 FB friends and a few years ago he was granting friendship requests to anyone (I think it was part of his plan to market himself), so probably half of those "friends" aren't people he really knows who may have requested his friendship just to spy on him. Not that I would know anything about that, of course. :whistle:

I met this guy (who is friends with both Peter and Kelly) at a party and thought he was nice, interesting, and super cute. Maybe I can corrupt him with my devilish, mainstream Christian, feminist ways?

[RosyDaisy]

Your right, I'm sorry. I thought Doug the Tool had adult children. My mistake. Mods please delete my previous post. Minor children should definitely not be snarked on.

I'm going to stop speculating. All we really know for certain is Doug the Tool had an emotional affair with another woman per his public statement. I don't think we will ever get the whole story. Maybe it's better that way for all concerned.

[debrand]

[

The "cougar," I'd prefer to call her Mrs Robinson, seems to be a wild card or red herring flung out by TW and Jen to pay off a personal grudge against her. It is unclear that she did anything illegal and their claims that she had a mysterious hold over Doug are not proven.

Jen and TW are pearl clutching because this woman did not behave modestly enough by BCA standards, embarrassed VF interns, and mysteriously ensorcelled half the men in the church -- and no-one did anything! Jen gets all bent out of shape because she thinks it is terrible that Mrs Robinson made young men think lustful thoughts.

I have news for Jen -- thinking lustful thoughts is pretty normal in adolescence. What I think is terrible is that the young men and young women have been taught that lustful thoughts are shameful and are not given guidance in how to deal with flirtatious and/or even predatory people.

The worst thing that they have against Mrs Robinson is that she is a married woman who seems to have had an affair with a consenting adult several years younger than herself. He was 18. She did not kidnap him. He drove himself to her house.

That whole story has elements of farce. The husband doesn't seem to mind. The suspicious father doesn't intervene with his son, caution him against the Jezebel, throw him out of the house, or even take away his car keys. Instead they arrange for the husband to be off in the woods contemplating end times with Dougie.

Dad puts a GPS in the young man's truck, musters other church members, tracks his son to Mrs Robinson's house and engineers the whole thing for the maximum humiliation of his son. Actually, we don't know whether the affair was even consummated. The poor young man was forced to flee through the bedroom window when the angry mob lead by his dad arrived. :shrug: I do feel sorry for that unfortunate young man, but not because he wanted a bit of nookie. I'm sure he was totally humiliated and shamed.

I think that the father's actions against his son were far more shocking than Mrs. Robinson. He put a tracking device on his son's car, for goodness sakes. It sounds as if Mr and Mrs Robinson have an open marriage. Perhaps they remain connected to the church because of family obligations.

People have asked if the lack of outrage over Mrs. Robinson would be extended to a male in her position. Let's imagine that scenario. A group teaches that women are supposed to be the leaders of their families. Men are to stay home and wait until they are noticed by women, never daring to flirt or take control of their own sexual lives. A man is close to his much younger sister; in fact, he might have taken on a parental role with her and so grieves her death more like a parent would a child. The man is married and has seven kids. After the death of the sister, he begins to act out sexually. He has an consensual affair with an adult who was not under his authority in any way. That adult's family is so disturbed that they put a GPS device on her vehicle so that they can keep track of her. A group follows her to the man's house where she may be engaged in consensual sexual activity and she is so frightened of that group that she jumps out of the bedroom window. Oh and the wife doesn't seem to care about the sexual activity so the group drag her off to a cabin to discuss the end times.

My reaction would be no different than it is now. I'd be more shocked at the father and his friends' reactions than I would be at the young woman and the married man having sex.

[ThatSnark]

"That awkward moment when you find Peter Bradrick's FB page and realize you have a friend in common with him... "

Yup, that was my weird experience too. Even though the person is someone from way back in my childhood and I haven't seen her in 25 years, it still gave me goosebumps. It makes me feel just a little too close to the cult.

Me three. As you can see below my avatar on the left, Bradrick! is local to me, so I wasn't *too* surprised, but I have 8 people in common with him. :roll:

[debrand]

Your right, I'm sorry. I thought Doug the Tool had adult children. My mistake. Mods please delete my previous post. Minor children should definitely not be snarked on.

Aren't the two oldest boys adults? I can't find their age online but I assumed that they were around twenty years old. Am I wrong?

[stonefruit]

All we really know for certain is Doug the Tool had an emotional affair with another woman per his public statement. I don't think we will ever get the whole story. Maybe it's better that way for all concerned.

Well, we also know that it was a physical affair per his second public statement (although he claims not to have "known" her in the biblical sense).

[Becoming_Me]

Pleasantly surprised how few blamed Beall/Hero.

No praying for the victim/her family, or just not included on the graph?

A couple of people said the matter needed prayer but were very vague about who and why so I didn't include it. Fundies (at least my circle of fundies) don't pray as much as they think they do, maybe our area is a heathen subset. :penguin-no:

[starfish]

Does anyone else think Jen needs to get a life, or a job, or just move on from her obsessive thoughts about BCA and Doug the tool? I can hardly

stand to read through her garbage. I suspect that, if Doug extended an olive branch and said come back to BCA and all will be forgiven, and you can

get back into the cult, she'd be in the car, peeling out of the drive-way, and on the way to Boerne before she hung up the phone.

This shaming of Mrs. Robinson indicates to me she's still angry that the lady did not get duly punished for her "transgressions". A part of her is still in the

cult and yearning for the rules to be enforced.

I agree with the previous post that, far more alarming than anything Mrs. Robinson did, was the behavior by the dad by placing a tracking device

in his adult son's vehicle.

[starfish]

Hisey, don't underestimate the income Kim at In A Shoe brings in. She has a huge blog following. If McMama is any indication, blogging can be quite lucrative. Heck, I have a couple small blogs and I bring in a few hundred most months from ad deals. A big blog like LIAS will bring in a lot more from ads, affiliates, etc. Kim also runs 'Frugal hacks' so there is money there, too. I think it is no coincidence that after many months of ignoring both blogs, Kim started putting full effort into them again just a month or two before the news about Doug Phillips (Tool, Esq.) publicly broke. She knew what was coming.

This is OT, but I was wondering if anyone else had noticed Crystal Paine's MSM blog, and how she keeps pushing this merchandise from some outfit called the

"Cents of Style" ? Everyday she's pushing their merchandise really hard. I wonder if she's trying to rev up her income, or if it's a family member's business, or what.

I wonder what the Paine's think about Dougie and company. I think she was at the Film Festival or something when the young man was killed in the car crash. I vaguely remember her blogging about it. She's been so mainstream lately that she's distanced herself from the VF crowd. She will never post about it, but I wonder....

Okay, back to regularly scheduled Doug the tool news....

[Mango]

I wonder if they're selling off the domain name.

I want HazardousJourneys.org for my new plus-size positive cosplay group!

[Palimpsest]

Aren't the two oldest boys adults? I can't find their age online but I assumed that they were around twenty years old. Am I wrong?

I honestly don't know how old they are, but Josh is said to be only 16 in the overblown resume dated 2013 here: themysteriousislandsmovie.com/team

RosyDaisy, sorry to have been handslappy, and you weren't to know. It was an innocent mistake. To clarify, the rules here forbid speculation about the sexual orientation of minors -- not actually all snarking. Especially if the minors are smug, condescending and preachy. It is quite safe to laugh at that.

However, I personally extend the rule to speculation about all possible sexual activity of Fundie minors, because although homosexuality would be regarded as a terrible sin by their families punishable by DEATH, any snarking about even heterosexual activity could get the minor kids into serious hot water too. Others MMV on that. It is just my own personal rule. :)

[Bethie42]

Not sure if we have talked in-depth about the deep distress that Bradrick's mother Susan seems to be going through:

On facebook.com/peterbradrick/posts/10201110628553296 we have her saying "Still crying", which I can understand from a mother involved in her son's life, after his betrayal by a mentor.

Then we have Stacy McD saying to Susan, "My heart is breaking for you and your mama's heart. I am praying for you as well, sweet sister." And there is another post near the bottom, directed to Susan saying they are praying for her family. One would think that she might address that to Peter instead, but perhaps she knows Susan better than she does Peter.

But I am a little confused by this post from another lady: "Peter, many are praying for you, including those you don't even know. Susan, my mother's heart can't imagine the pain. We are praying for you too."

Her words to Susan seem to be what one would use for someone who has gone through a personal loss or deep trauma directed to a child…..was Peter's ditching by Doug really THAT much of an upset? I suppose it could be, given how he says the past decade of his life has been defined by his relationship with Doug! Anyways, it will be interesting to see if there are any more developments from Bradrick. Wondered if any of you all have thoughts about this…do we know anything else about how deeply Bradrick's parents, particularly his mother, are involved in the patriarchy movement?

[Edited to break link]

[debrand]

Apparently some are on Jen's Gems are offended by Truth Lasts very honest post. TL is correct. The parents decided to be blind to common sense. I count myself as one who got into fundamentalism because of an abusive, unstable childhood. On that score, I failed as a parent. Someone called TL vindictive but I don't see the vindictiveness so much as honesty

I think all who ever were or still are involved in that despicable cult should be ashamed and held accountable. All those adults who brought their families into that ugly and atrocious 3 ring circus can go skulking off into the shadows for shame, or now that they are on the outs or things have taken a turn they didn’t quite like are turning around to be vengeful and hold Doug Phillips accountable better take a look in the mirror, because without them all that that man did wouldn’t be possible.

When my parents found out about Doug and this blown out scandal they apologized to me for this man and his actions in my life and how he had hurt me. And they said, “Where is his apology to you or to us?â€

My reaction was one of immediate anger, not towards as many might assume to this man Doug Phillips, but towards my parents. Doug Phillips doesn’t owe me an apology. The damn man didn’t raise me, he didn’t have my raising in his hands, that was my parents, that was them and only them.

So take responsibility, the only victims here are the children of the idiotic and wicked hearts of the parents that flocked to this man and his worthless message.

This article talks of how Doug abused his power, but how more so the parents of the families that across the country modeled their churches and homes into the mockery that was his image of family. Daughters were raised with no greater aim than filling their hope chests and preparing themselves to be the bearers of children to their husbands. Not given the hope of anything beyond that, but of being chattel, sold to the highest and best bidder.

Courtship: A young man sees a woman and prays on it, and if he feels God has given his blessing goes to his parents, and they pray about it, and if they also see it as a good thing, go to the parents of the girl. They all pray about it and if it seems right and approved then and only then do they approach the young woman with the proffer, not of “courtship†per say, but of marriage. There are many young women who cried at this news, but as they had been raised to believe that to refuse their parents would be to refuse God and disobey His commandments, give in… I almost was one of these victims, but life was kinder to me and it didn’t work out.

But all the parents who participated in the lies and the life of that cultish movement, don’t you dare revel or seek out vengeance on Doug Phillips until you accept full responsibility and seek repentance for the lies you yourselves have participated in sending into despair and pain. The movement that Doug started never was holy to begin with and don’t you dare pretend that it was. From the foundations to the very top, the homeschool movement that I knew and was raised in has always been a big farce.

Biblical justice be on the heads of all of you who have ever and still do participate in the accursed mismanagement of your children.

Reply

[hoipolloi]

…do we know anything else about how deeply Bradrick's parents, particularly his mother, are involved in the patriarchy movement?

The senior Bradricks are steeped in patriarchal kool-aid and have made lots of $$$ dispensing it as well: familydiscipleshipmin.com/about/.

They have regularly appeared at & sponsored conferences in their home state of WA and elsewhere via a VF/NCFIC-like organization Michael Bradrick (co-)founded. Their website hawks their & other patriarchal shite from VF, Voddie Baucham, Kevin Swanson, ad nauseum: christianheritageonline.org/

They also push training beating kids into submission, first time obedience, etc., etc.: christianheritageonline.org/dont-just-discipline-train/

To the extent that she's endorsed & pushed all this crap for YEARS, Susan Bradrick gets no pass from me. If DP or another evil-doer has done something awful to one of her kids, perhaps she needs to think through whether forcing children into obeying any adult instantly the first time is really a wise or good thing to do.

[SamuraiKatz]

I think that the father's actions against his son were far more shocking than Mrs. Robinson. He put a tracking device on his son's car, for goodness sakes. It sounds as if Mr and Mrs Robinson have an open marriage. Perhaps they remain connected to the church because of family obligations.

People have asked if the lack of outrage over Mrs. Robinson would be extended to a male in her position. Let's imagine that scenario. A group teaches that women are supposed to be the leaders of their families. Men are to stay home and wait until they are noticed by women, never daring to flirt or take control of their own sexual lives. A man is close to his much younger sister; in fact, he might have taken on a parental role with her and so grieves her death more like a parent would a child. The man is married and has seven kids. After the death of the sister, he begins to act out sexually. He has an consensual affair with an adult who was not under his authority in any way. That adult's family is so disturbed that they put a GPS device on her vehicle so that they can keep track of her. A group follows her to the man's house where she may be engaged in consensual sexual activity and she is so frightened of that group that she jumps out of the bedroom window. Oh and the wife doesn't seem to care about the sexual activity so the group drag her off to a cabin to discuss the end times.

My reaction would be no different than it is now. I'd be more shocked at the father and his friends' reactions than I would be at the young woman and the married man having sex.

We don't even know that this was an affair. We just have Jen and her mystery writer's allegations.

I imagine this young man's home life was pretty sucky (especially if his dad is tracking him by GPS!) Maybe Mr. and Mrs. Robinson are/were warm and welcoming people. The kind who make kids who are lacking something in their home lives feel loved and accepted as human beings.

Mrs. Robinson may just be a truly nice caring person who happens to be gorgeous. Since she's gorgeous and nice, the accusations fly due to jealously or whatever. And it turns into the Salem Witch Trials 2013....

And if the accusations are true, Then boundaries that are appropriate need to be put in place. Not public shaming on a web page.

ETA to fix grammar riffles last sentence.

[debrand]

I honestly don't know how old they are, but Josh is said to be only 16 in the overblown resume dated 2013 here: themysteriousislandsmovie.com/team

RosyDaisy, sorry to have been handslappy, and you weren't to know. It was an innocent mistake. To clarify, the rules here forbid speculation about the sexual orientation of minors -- not actually all snarking. Especially if the minors are smug, condescending and preachy. It is quite safe to laugh at that.

However, I personally extend the rule to speculation about all possible sexual activity of Fundie minors, because although homosexuality would be regarded as a terrible sin by their families punishable by DEATH, any snarking about even heterosexual activity could get the minor kids into serious hot water too. Others MMV on that. It is just my own personal rule. :)

Thank you. I wrongly assumed that the two oldest boys were older than they are.

Also, SamuraiKatz makes a pretty good point in the post above me. We have no idea if Mrs. Robinson had any type of sexual relationship with the younger man or not. We do know from the story that the young man's father is a control freak who supposedly sent this story to TW so the dad has boundary issues also

[javafriend]

I'm going to jump behind the wheel of the idle speculation bus to observe that the eldest child of sippy cup looks different than the others. Could he be the son of a famous tool instead of child's beverage holder? Maybe DP declared that right of kings thing where he gets to sleep with all the virgins first. Okay, reading this blog too much....stepping away from the bus....

[danvillebelle]

The Bradricks have been homeschooling fundie royalty for well over 20 years, long before VF ever existed. Actually, Susan Bradrick had a talk called "24 Hours is All You Get" about scheduling, that Teri Maxwell pretty much completely ripped off. Minor tweaking at most. VF sold several of their products for years, I'm pretty sure that was Peter's "in."

[Bookworm]

Does anyone else think Jen needs to get a life, or a job, or just move on from her obsessive thoughts about BCA and Doug the tool? I can hardly

stand to read through her garbage. I suspect that, if Doug extended an olive branch and said come back to BCA and all will be forgiven, and you can

get back into the cult, she'd be in the car, peeling out of the drive-way, and on the way to Boerne before she hung up the phone.

This shaming of Mrs. Robinson indicates to me she's still angry that the lady did not get duly punished for her "transgressions". A part of her is still in the

cult and yearning for the rules to be enforced.

I agree with the previous post that, far more alarming than anything Mrs. Robinson did, was the behavior by the dad by placing a tracking device

in his adult son's vehicle.

Yeah. These are also the types of people who obsess about the end of the world and persecution, which will come about by governmental tyranny and micromanagement. I try to avoid people who focus on ebil gubment topics so much now, even though I share a desire for privacy, security, and self-determination, because it seems that, as with so many things in life, it takes one (controlling dictator) to know one. Either that, or it's a function of the proverb, we become what we hate/create what we fear.

Bunny trail aside, yes, Jen is looking worse and worse all the time by her actions. And, since I'm pretty sure Eston = Mark, I wonder what his new (also unstable) wife thinks about how close they still seem to be? It's just distasteful all around.

[gustava]

I wonder if they're selling off the domain name.

I want HazardousJourneys.org for my new plus-size positive cosplay group!

:lol: :lol: