The Truth About Ruth - Part 3

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Pretty rich that Callou is insisting that Vyckie is not a child abuser since V herself admitted to beating her kids and letting them be beaten severely. (This was after the big media storm over the judge who was caught on tape beating his daughter.)

[thoughtful]

Justme, I don't see it. We have no info about Calladus to prove that he has an ugly side -- Steve has written books and blog entries about keeping children like prisoners and other paranoia.

Calladus, thanks for being able to make a U-turn in your general opinion of this forum. Nobody can control 7000+ people (and, being a free-speech kind of place, that's not a high priority here), and we are all individuals, but, in general, FJers are concerned about many of the same abuses you are. We do include lots of believers, but religion used to abuse others is just as disgusting to them as it is to the Atheists here.

If you have time, I'd love to see an update to your blog, now that you know we are not wild-eyed shriekers, and, while you don't believe your friend has been dishonest online, what our actual claims are.

Which, as others have posted, brings me to the fact that you are still not addressing that it's the extreme sun sensitivity that Possummomma claimed, contrasted with the pics of your friend in full sun, happy and with no redness or scars from former outbreaks, that doesn't ring true.

And, as someone else pointed out and you may have missed, I think it was comparing IP addresses to the posts on your friend's Facebook page that jumped out as aligning, which I'm not sure you've fully absorbed, from what you said.

Also, mods and/or Calladus (if it is not too late to do an edit) -- we have all been careful not to write the real-life name of the person we are discussing. Calladus used her first name several times. I don't know if anyone wants to do anything about that, but it sure would be ironic if the person defending her was the one to let more of the cat out of the bag.

As for lack of proof, it is difficult. While some of us are quite sure, others aren't. If we were a jury, we might have to follow the letter of the law and say is it all circumstantial. But it is strong circumstantial evidence, and we are not condemning anyone to prison (we are not even publicizing the real name, here). There is just concern that people are being scammed out of money, and that a story that was used to fight the ugliness of ATI-Q and other religious abuses can now be dismissed as fake.

This kind of thing does happen, even to smart people. Not once, not twice, but three times in my life I got involved with people who were not what they seemed. They were not doing anything criminal, but had a warm, nice, helpful facade behind which there was a somewhat narcissistic personality -- the "it's never my fault" issue, among other things, and always (always!) a story about how tough things were, and how others were attacking them.

I know how it feels to be in your position -- it hurts like hell. I listened sympathetically and defended them against "attackers" for a long time before I caught on. And these were people I saw daily, not occasionally for a visit.

I'd kick myself for being naive, but they were good -- in fact, I think two of them were fooling themselves and really saw the world through "I am always the victim" glasses. I didn't do anything wrong, other than being kind and a person who assumes others are telling the truth unless there is a reason to doubt. You may be having the wool pulled over your eyes.

edited because I misread something

[Palimpsest]

I am very glad that Calladus has come here to give his opinion on this.

I have read quite a lot of his excellent work and would, personally, have been quite heartbroken to have found out that he was a sock. If I have wondered about it on these threads, it was in the context of -- oh, no, not Calladus! I'm am very relieved that he has been confirmed as exactly who he says he is. He has always stuck me as one of the Good Guys, and I'm sure this questioning of Possummommy is very distressing to him. Remember how many of us felt about the former FJ Admin's fall from grace. Some of us had met her IRL too.

I see Thoughtful has already pointed this out: An edit of all those first name references is needed quickly.

Back to catch up to the rest of the story.

[amster]

I haven't read all the posts here, so forgive me if this has already been said, but I think it really needs to be.

IP addresses aren't always as they seem. I work in IT, and IP addresses are just an approximation based on where the ISP is located. If someone is within a private network, their IP address will never be accurately reflected.

Also, if someone's ISP is located in a different area to where they are web browsing (it happens here in Australia often), their location will be reported as the particular city/area that their ISP is located. For example, my work uses an ISP based in Sydney. Our 65+ offices are located all throughout NSW & QLD. All sites end up coming from the one IP address, with 400+ devices (iPhones, computers, iPads etc) all seeming to come from the one IP address when they are inside our private network.

Just worth keeping in mind when using IP addresses as evidence of someone's location. All of that being said, I have suspected Ruth as a scammer for a while.

[happy atheist]

I have removed the instances of PM's real name and will be dropping Calladus a line about not using it in the future.

[Justme]

Justme, I don't see it. We have no info about Calladus to prove that he has an ugly side -- Steve has written books and blog entries about keeping children like prisoners and other paranoia.

Calladus, thanks for being able to make a U-turn in your general opinion of this forum. Nobody can control 7000+ people (and, being a free-speech kind of place, that's not a high priority here), and we are all individuals, but, in general, FJers are concerned about many of the same abuses you are. We do include lots of believers, but religion used to abuse others is just as disgusting to them as it is to the Atheists here.

If you have time, I'd love to see an update to your blog, now that you know we are not wild-eyed shriekers, and, while you don't believe your friend has been dishonest online, what our actual claims are.

Which, as others have posted, brings me to the fact that you are still not addressing that it's the extreme sun sensitivity that Possummomma claimed, contrasted with the pics of your friend in full sun, happy and with no redness or scars from former outbreaks, that doesn't ring true.

And, as someone else pointed out and you may have missed, I think it was comparing IP addresses to the posts on your friend's Facebook page that jumped out as aligning, which I'm not sure you've fully absorbed, from what you said.

Also, mods and/or Calladus (if it is not too late to do an edit) -- we have all been careful not to write the real-life name of the person we are discussing. Calladus used her first name several times. I don't know if anyone wants to do anything about that, but it sure would be ironic if the person defending her was the one to let more of the cat out of the bag.

As for lack of proof, it is difficult. While some of us are quite sure, others aren't. If we were a jury, we might have to follow the letter of the law and say is it all circumstantial. But it is strong circumstantial evidence, and we are not condemning anyone to prison (we are not even publicizing the real name, here). There is just concern that people are being scammed out of money, and that a story that was used to fight the ugliness of ATI-Q and other religious abuses can now be dismissed as fake.

This kind of thing does happen, even to smart people. Not once, not twice, but three times in my life I got involved with people who were not what they seemed. They were not doing anything criminal, but had a warm, nice, helpful facade behind which there was a somewhat narcissistic personality -- the "it's never my fault" issue, among other things, and always (always!) a story about how tough things were, and how others were attacking them.

I know how it feels to be in your position -- it hurts like hell. I listened sympathetically and defended them against "attackers" for a long time before I caught on. And these were people I saw daily, not occasionally for a visit.

I'd kick myself for being naive, but they were good -- in fact, I think two of them were fooling themselves and really saw the world through "I am always the victim" glasses. I didn't do anything wrong, other than being kind and a person who assumes others are telling the truth unless there is a reason to doubt. You may be having the wool pulled over your eyes.

edited because I misread something

Sarcasm

[Avii]

Wow. Thanks, Oddeverything, for the site. I was pretty confused but it lays all the pertinent details out clearly.

[HoneyBunny]

I just have this to offer: it is not fair to judge one's truly having lupus by how they dress/how often they go out in the sun. I am strong positive for SLE, and have been for almost 10 years. Except for Raynauds and scalp lesions (and some elements of Sjogren's) I am also asymptomatic. I spend months each year living out of the country near a beach, armed just with a swimsuit, hat and sunscreen (wise practice for anyone). The docs are stumped and have me on Plaquenil anyways. It can happen that way.

[Cran]

I just have this to offer: it is not fair to judge one's truly having lupus by how they dress/how often they go out in the sun. I am strong positive for SLE, and have been for almost 10 years. Except for Raynauds and scalp lesions (and some elements of Sjogren's) I am also asymptomatic. I spend months each year living out of the country near a beach, armed just with a swimsuit, hat and sunscreen (wise practice for anyone). The docs are stumped and have me on Plaquenil anyways. It can happen that way.

Sorry you have to deal with that. The problem with the possum is that she claimed to get severe effects from just 10 minutes out at dusk, up to having BLISTERED skin and then, a few months later (I think?) being out in full sunshine without much protection and enjoying herself, and not having any scarring from her previous outbreak(s).

Pretty strange for someone who needs UV-protective films on their windows to go with daily life, isn't it?

[copper]

I'm not seeing much about this elsewhere and thought it might be helpful for it to be its own thread, but if it needs to be merged, may the mods make it so. :)

1. I thought it might be good to document any initial fundie reactions to Ruth. When her blog first came out, did any of our fundies refer or comment about it? Are there ever any responses to survivor stories in general?

2. Will there be a public, bloggy reaction to the knowledge of the scam? Will people that have never mentioned the survivor stories before jump in now? Or will it go ignored? It's the perfect opportunity to take lash out against all survivor stories, and sites like NLQ, Recovering Grace, and Homeschooler's Anonymous. In fact, the backlash against HA has seemed strong lately--I'm afraid RR will be added to the pile-on.

Thoughts?

[Mary C Doates]

I'm not seeing much about this elsewhere and thought it might be helpful for it to be its own thread, but if it needs to be merged, may the mods make it so. :)

1. I thought it might be good to document any initial fundie reactions to Ruth. When her blog first came out, did any of our fundies refer or comment about it? Are there ever any responses to survivor stories in general?

2. Will there be a public, bloggy reaction to the knowledge of the scam? Will people that have never mentioned the survivor stories before jump in now? Or will it go ignored? It's the perfect opportunity to take lash out against all survivor stories, and sites like NLQ, Recovering Grace, and Homeschooler's Anonymous. In fact, the backlash against HA has seemed strong lately--I'm afraid RR will be added to the pile-on.

Thoughts?

There's been very little reaction as far as I've seen, aside from GOMI and calulu (not sure if I'm spelling the latter correctly). GOMI seems more interested in bitching about FJ and less about RR. I'm a little surprised, as I thought here would be more of a response.

Of course, I needed help to make the RR connections, so I may be missing things due to my Googling disability.

[previously]

I'm pretty amazed that all these sites are still up. For an accomplished scammer, she's not much of an internet scrubber.

[PokaDot]

So do you guys remember a while back when Ruth's real identity was put on a blog? Did anyone actually catch that alleged name? I'm just curious now what it was..

[louisa05]

In regard to NLQ's temper tantrum...I'm not sure I see Ruth's story being all that inspiring to anyone. What does it tell someone who might be considering leaving an ATI/QF family? Nothing real positive--you will have endless illness and accidents, a broken heart from real world dating, no friends or support system, sometimes be homeless, and encounter a society full of people who are just as mean and abusive to you as your family of origin (employers, landlords, customers, co-workers, potential future in-laws---all emotionally abused poor suffering Ruth in one way or another).

It is hardly a story of hope and healing and a bright new future.

[thoughtful]

Sarcasm

Oh, OK. It didn't come across, to me, anyway. Maybe I need my sarcasm meter repaired. :D

[ark]

I suspect it comes down to more about not wanting to be wrong than anything else. Sometimes, you just have to admit you made a mistake, apologize and move forward. It sucks, but that is better than digging your heels in and looking like a fool, IMO.

Sadly this is a lesson too many people never learn.

[Closed Womb]

I'm pretty amazed that all these sites are still up. For an accomplished scammer, she's not much of an internet scrubber.

Why would she bother? She's still got a ton of support; hell, the faithful are probably upping their donations to make up for the "persecution". No one is gonna prosecute. As long as she has adamant supporters who are doubling down, she's got nothing to lose and everything to gain (everything being $$$$ in this case.)

[Palimpsest]

So do you guys remember a while back when Ruth's real identity was put on a blog? Did anyone actually catch that alleged name? I'm just curious now what it was..

My memory is, FWIW: Ruth said that her real identity was put on some blog. Then scrubbed. I don't think anyone has ever come forward to say that they saw it. I could be wrong.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Im guessing this person posting her real identity was made up, something she just said happened to lend her more credibility, like the comment about her familys picture being visible on a wall full of photos of family friends in the Duggar house.

[nelliebelle1197]

Oh, OK. It didn't come across, to me, anyway. Maybe I need my sarcasm meter repaired. :D

FWIW, I missed it too. :think:

[Palimpsest]

Im guessing this person posting her real identity was made up, something she just said happened to lend her more credibility, like the comment about her familys picture being visible on a wall full of photos of family friends in the Duggar house.

Precisely. Unless someone comes forward to say otherwise, I doubt that "Ruth's" real identity as a Fundie daughter was posted anywhere. Because she is Our Lady of Many Identities (I like this name) who is a lying liar that lies.

[nelliebelle1197]

I don't think she was as much of a blip on their radar as we might have thought.

[CallmeChaCha]

In regard to NLQ's temper tantrum...I'm not sure I see Ruth's story being all that inspiring to anyone. What does it tell someone who might be considering leaving an ATI/QF family? Nothing real positive--you will have endless illness and accidents, a broken heart from real world dating, no friends or support system, sometimes be homeless, and encounter a society full of people who are just as mean and abusive to you as your family of origin (employers, landlords, customers, co-workers, potential future in-laws---all emotionally abused poor suffering Ruth in one way or another).

It is hardly a story of hope and healing and a bright new future.

This. If I was raised believing the world is full evil and that the fundie lifestyle is THE lifestyle, and then came across her blog, no way would I leave. It sounds like way too much work just to be that miserable.

IIRC, it was "Ruth" herself who stated that someone had outed her.

[library_youth]

I also don't think anyone ever blogged "Ruth's" name like she claimed. She'd said something like "some stranger blogged my identity, and erased it 48 hours later." Had it really happened, I'm sure someone would have seen it, and sang like a canary.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I bet they already knew she was a fake in some way, because she is apparently from a family well known in ATI who was close enough to meet the Duggars and have their photo on their wall of family friends....and yet none of the fundies knew anyone who knew her, and didnt know any of the scandals in her life, like Rachel's pregnancy, adoption of her baby and marriage to an older man, or of her father's death.

Us confirming it is nothing new to them, as they took one look at the story and said "nope, Satan is just trying to lure people out" and ignored it.