Breaking MAXWELL news/Liz cancelled the wedding to Joe

[Guest Anonymous]

I think it's interesting the way the Muncks are allowing comments through that imply criticism of the Maxwell lifestyle, eg the one that referred to her potential future life as "without enjoyment and essentially cloistered".

I imagine Steve will be beyond his usual level of vile to live with after a humiliation that falls far more on his shoulders than on poor Joe's.

[nokidsmom]

I think it's interesting the way the Muncks are allowing comments through that imply criticism of the Maxwell lifestyle, eg the one that referred to her potential future life as "without enjoyment and essentially cloistered".

I went over to the Munck's blog and saw those comments. Thought it interesting as well considering they were worshipping the ground the Maxwells walked so recently. Hmmmm.....sure looks like they found out what life on the compound was going to mean for their daughter.

[Palimpsest]

Hmmm. The Maxwells have updated their blog. They are leaving early for Colorado so that they can "heal," and have gone ahead with putting stair carpet in Joseph's (not Joseph and Elizabeth's) house.

For heaven's sake though, the drama of it all! Joseph and Elizabeth have every right to be upset -- but the whole Maxwell family going into deep mourning, hurting and needing to heal from one family member's broken engagement is just over the top. Holy unhealthy enmeshment, Batman.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Smugly went out and got grandma's house before asking Anna.

But, it's debt-free. That's what matters.

[thoughtful]

Hmmm. The Maxwells have updated their blog. They are leaving early for Colorado so that they can "heal," and have gone ahead with putting stair carpet in Joseph's (not Joseph and Elizabeth's) house.

For heaven's sake though, the drama of it all! Joseph and Elizabeth have every right to be upset -- but the whole Maxwell family going into deep mourning, hurting and needing to heal from one family member's broken engagement is just over the top. Holy unhealthy enmeshment, Batman.

Yep -it is the Maxwell way.

Really, we have no way of knowing what emotions, if any, the two principals actually had for one another, if either Joseph or Elizabeth is thinking "I lost my beloved."

But, for everyone, it was the Official Big Project, the latest way to spread the Gospel According to Steve to the heathens and lesser Christians out there. And it failed.

I think of it as being comparable to a bad pre-Christmas season for a mom-and-pop business - that may be behind any grief they are feeling Steve is making them feel.

ETA -- Sarah is all smiles, as usual. Of course, it's that doesn't-reach-the-eyes smile, also as usual. Proof positive (not that we needed it) that these rigidly-programmed people smiling all the time means nothing about their actual feelings.

[jockosmom]

The LORD - laying it on your heart like Nutella. I love it!! :lol:

I think she bailed just before the wedding shower because all of a sudden, it felt real and time was going by very fast. Maybe if these Maxwell idiots had let these kids have a longer engagement and everything wasn't such a rush, things would have worked out differently. They sure have all the answers, don't they? Traveling around the country, holding "workshops" on how to do things the Maxwell way because that's the right way!! Yea, right.

I got married a month after my 17th birthday because I got pregnant. Sometimes I wish my father had picked a husband for me. He probably would have done a better job than I did the first time.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Hmmm. The Maxwells have updated their blog. They are leaving early for Colorado so that they can "heal," and have gone ahead with putting stair carpet in Joseph's (not Joseph and Elizabeth's) house.

For heaven's sake though, the drama of it all! Joseph and Elizabeth have every right to be upset -- but the whole Maxwell family going into deep mourning, hurting and needing to heal from one family member's broken engagement is just over the top. Holy unhealthy enmeshment, Batman.

Notice they're working on conference material - this is at least in part an emergency work retreat for them, because surely their planned talks about the wonders of courtship and the wedding have all been rendered utterly useless and they need to come up with new content in a hurry.

But, for everyone, it was the Official Big Project, the latest way to spread the Gospel According to Steve to the heathens and lesser Christians out there. And it failed.

I think of it as being comparable to a bad pre-Christmas season for a mom-and-pop business - that may be behind any grief they are feeling Steve is making them feel.

Yep. At least this conference season is set back terribly (unless they can manage to work some serious creative magic there in Colorado in their brainstorming session). Who knows, there may even have been some book on courtship planned, if so, no doubt that's been scrapped also. Their big initiative for the year just fizzled on the launch pad.

[singsingsing]

And these people still think that the courtship model 'guards hearts'. It's baffling! What really gets me is that it's perfectly possible to date and to not have premarital sex, which is what these people are really honestly worried about. People do it (don't do it?) all the time. Sure, it's difficult, and it should be difficult if you're genuinely attracted to, and have strong feelings for, the person you are with. But if it is that fundamentally important to you to wait until your wedding night, it can totally be done. I know people who have done it. They have great, successful, happy relationships. The difference is that they were allowed to date, spend time ALONE together, get to know one another, have fun without this insane pressure.

Here's an analogy that may or may not work... I'm against adultery. I would never cheat on my boyfriend/spouse. That is an ideal I've held for a long time, and will continue to hold. It doesn't matter if other people around me do it. It doesn't matter if I start to get bored in the relationship, or am really tempted to cheat for any reason. I just won't do it. But I don't need chaperones to follow me around to make sure I'm guarding my heart against potential affairs. Why can married fundie couples be trusted to guard their hearts in this way, but they can't be trusted to go to a cafe alone and chat for an hour or two with a potential spouse? And why is it such a huge tragedy if they slip up and touch each other, kiss, or GOD FORBID even have sex before they marry? Sometimes I wonder what kind of God these people believe in, because it seems like they missed the memo and they think the New Testament is bad news instead of good.

If Joseph and Elizabeth had met at a conference, started exchanging some e-mails, maybe moved onto phone calls, met a couple more times with their families/in public - they'd still be in the early stages of a relationship. They'd probably be happy and excited. Their families would also be getting to know one another at a normal pace. If they decided at this point, or even a few months down the road, that things weren't working and they had to break up - well, I'm sure they'd be upset, the families might be sad, but they'd recover so much quicker and learn from their experience, and their hearts would be WAY less wounded than they have been in this ridiculous courtship model.

[Arete]

No point in trying to use logic with Steve Maxwell singsingsing. The man jumped the shark a long time ago.

[WonderingInWA]

Can you imagine how much money Joseph has probably lost on his honeymoon deposit? I'd love to know where they were planning to go, but most places (even a cabin in the woods) probably wouldn't refund a deposit on a week's notice during high travel season.

He's been burned (although I am supportive of Elizabeth's decision). My guess is he won't be up for another romance anytime soon.

[kpmom]

It looks like they'll give him a little time to heal in Colorado, and then it's right back to the dog and pony show.

I can understand hurting for your loved one who got dumped a week before the wedding, but it's Joseph who needs to heal (and, hopefully, reflect). I don't get the need for the family to be healing.

When they say they're going to work on their sessions, does that mean filling that planned courtship workshop in with something else?

[Sister Mozz]

Can you imagine how much money Joseph has probably lost on his honeymoon deposit?

I don't think Steve charges that much for his married children to ride along in Uriah with the family. Or maybe he does. Something to consider.

[WonderingInWA]

It looks like they'll give him a little time to heal in Colorado, and then it's right back to the dog and pony show.

I can understand hurting for your loved one who got dumped a week before the wedding, but it's Joseph who needs to heal (and, hopefully, reflect). I don't get the need for the family to be healing.

When they say they're going to work on their sessions, does that mean filling that planned courtship workshop in with something else?

I think somehow Steve will end up spinning this whole failed engagement gig into a "wolf in sheep's clothing" thing -- that they were fooled by such a beautiful girl and family yet the LORD finally revealed the truth. You know, taking the negative and giving the glory to God that the marriage plans were cancelled. It's a good story to include in his courtship session if he gives it the right spin.

I think their family has probably been hurt very deeply, just not in the same way Joseph has. It's just like divorce (ask me how I know). I was hurting a lot through mine (still do) and my family was hurting watching me hurt.

[Guest Anonymous]

I can understand hurting for your loved one who got dumped a week before the wedding, but it's Joseph who needs to heal (and, hopefully, reflect). I don't get the need for the family to be healing.

It certainly sounds as though Steve Maxwell's version of courtship involves not just the individuals concerned, but the entire family giving away pieces of their hearts! ;)

My guess is that the trip is intended to keep everyone together, busy, with no internet connection to read up on Elizabeth's side of the story, and with few opportunities to spend time alone thinking or questioning why this went wrong. Steve will hear from the Lord what is to happen next and will pass the message along within the cult.

[LucySnowe]

It certainly sounds as though Steve Maxwell's version of courtship involves not just the individuals concerned, but the entire family giving away pieces of their hearts! ;)

Ha, yes. I think the broken engagement damages the entire family because they all have so much invested (emotionally and financially) in Our Way Is The Best. They've just had that thrown back in their faces.

My guess is that the trip is intended to keep everyone together, busy, with no internet connection to read up on Elizabeth's side of the story,

Or ours? ;)

[Guest Anonymous]

Ha, yes. I think the broken engagement damages the entire family because they all have so much invested (emotionally and financially) in Our Way Is The Best. They've just had that thrown back in their faces.

Or ours? ;)

I was kind of seeing us as being on Team Elizabeth :D

[mirele]

I was kind of seeing us as being on Team Elizabeth :D

I see myself on the Team Everyone But Steve. But then again, I think Steve Maxwell is a Cult Leader and his family are his (un)willing dupes.

[Esther]

Yeah, Steve just made the mistake of picking for Joe's bride a girl with a family who actually seem to care for her, fundie though they may be.

[treemom]

I think somehow Steve will end up spinning this whole failed engagement gig into a "wolf in sheep's clothing" thing -- that they were fooled by such a beautiful girl and family yet the LORD finally revealed the truth. You know, taking the negative and giving the glory to God that the marriage plans were cancelled. It's a good story to include in his courtship session if he gives it the right spin.

I think their family has probably been hurt very deeply, just not in the same way Joseph has. It's just like divorce (ask me how I know). I was hurting a lot through mine (still do) and my family was hurting watching me hurt.

I don't think they will spin it...I think after a few weeks they will just act like it never happened. Like with Christopher.

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree, Treemom. I think they will leave up the "Broken Hearts" post just long enough to let everyone know it was Elizabeth's 'fault', and then it will all be deleted away, like she never happened.

[WonderingInWA]

I agree, Treemom. I think they will leave up the "Broken Hearts" post just long enough to let everyone know it was Elizabeth's 'fault', and then it will all be deleted away, like she never happened.

Oh, good point. Delete her existance. How sad. He's just better not keep peddling his "Courting" session, then. He may attract protesters.

[Letgo]

Can you imagine how much money Joseph has probably lost on his honeymoon deposit?

Probably not a dime. I would bet they planned to go to some isolated cabin that someone offered to them at no charge. They could go away to be alone and get to know each other, while at the same time not risking being defrauded by normal people since Steve (I hope) would not be there to protect his son and new daughter-in-law.

Does anyone think this abrupt courtship end will cause any of them to actually think about it? Will Mary or Jesse or even Sarah ask Steve how a courtship could end when he KNEW it was from God? Did Steve make a mistake? Was he mislead by his feelings? How could this have happened? Steve is always so sure. Even a common sense thing that most Christians do, such as rotating tires, is done because Steve said Jesus told him to do it. So how does Steve really spin this for a questioning family? Or will they not even ask?

[Creaky Mom]

My guess is that this trip to Colorado is on Joe.

[anniebgood]

I think it's interesting the way the Muncks are allowing comments through that imply criticism of the Maxwell lifestyle, eg the one that referred to her potential future life as "without enjoyment and essentially cloistered".

I imagine Steve will be beyond his usual level of vile to live with after a humiliation that falls far more on his shoulders than on poor Joe's.

That was me. I wanted her to know that others know what the Maxwell life is like and she was not a fit for it. I don't care if Steve knows it me, he knows what I believe and that I think he's totally wrong in his always focus on God gig.

As a very old friend of mine used to say, "He can eat his liver and enjoy it".

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I think somehow Steve will end up spinning this whole failed engagement gig into a "wolf in sheep's clothing" thing -- that they were fooled by such a beautiful girl and family yet the LORD finally revealed the truth.

I don't know....it may be "erased" and never heard of again. Otherwise people could blame him for his poor judgement in picking such a girl.

I'd sure hate to be in that bus this week! Poor Joe!

Free Joe AND Elizabeth!