Counting On, Season Four Part 5

[NotQuiteMotY]

4 hours ago, nomoxian said:

I just thought - for some people at the doctors office, it might not be a case of them lying about having sex, but they might not know what sex really is. If someone was homeschooled and wasn't exposed to television and the internet, and [insert deity here] forbid they were assaulted, they might not really know what had happened.

I hadn't even thought of that. Jeez...

[Fluffy14]

Back in the late late 80's my friend who was 25 at the time was raped.  She was a virgin. At the time it happened she didn't even know what had happened she had no clue she was raped.  IT turned out she was pregnant. Her parents blamed her, they had a huge melt down. The friends at church didn't believe her. They all thought she should know what had happened and why. She didn't. She never had a BF. Her dad was such controlling freak he wouldn't even let her get her license. 

She had the baby girl and  kept her.  Her parents eventually came around.  She has been my friend ever since.  After she had that baby.....she became "friends" with a major creep. The creep was hanging around the church looking for someone to devour.  Anyhow, the slime-ball that he was kept visiting her new place. (she was set up in low income housing as a single mum)  about a month later she confided in me she was pregnant again.  Again it was against her will. ( I don't think at this point in her life she could even utter the word no) She told me, she had never actually seen a penis in real life but had two pregnancies. She gave that baby up for adoption. 

My friend was incredibly naive.  She was very child like.  She still is, and she is 54+ years old.  She grew up with such a controlling father who was ANGRY all the time. Her mother was no better. ( her dad actually had a brain tumour)  She was never allowed to make a decision for herself.  It was very debilitating. She went to University but dropped out because the decisions were just too much.

Anyhow she got married had 2 more babies......and suffered depression for the last 30 yrs. She has finally been able to rise above and has been doing well for the last 4 yrs or so. 

 

[JordynDarby5]

8 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

I hate when doctors do this!  I had one do it at 16.  Then promise not to tell my mother.  Seriously, I understand about confidentiality and I don't lie about health issues.  Not all kids are like yours!

I hate when doctors do that too. Yes, I understand why. But there's also a lot of crappy doctors thanks to them it took me five years to find a doctor willing to do more then just more then a pregnancy test. I vomited every three to six months some times it last a week or times one to two months every doctor I went to blew me off I must be pregnant.  Oh, you must be pregnant, how many patients they had that turned out to be pregnant, the wink wink when was the last time you had sex.  It didn't matter how many times they did the test or the fact it always came back negative. Then it was, oh well its the flu. They didn't want to do anything. They didn't want to try different tests. I wasn't pregnant and it wasn't the flu. It was a stomach problem that's control by a strict diet. Maybe if one of those doctors had been willing to do his or her job it wouldn't have taken five years to find that out. 

[Shadoewolf]

My oldest wolfie (17) was in the ER last night after dislocating her knee during cheer practice.They wanted an x-ray to confirm her knee was back in place. They asked her about sex twice, once before the morphine for pain, and once after.  I guess they figured if she was loopy they might hear something different? Nope. First time she gave them her cycle dates and everything. After the morphine she kinda giggled, said no way, eww, then smarted off with "do I look that stupid?" They dropped it after that, and just used a lead cover. I was sort of surprised that they let her forgo the urine test. 

She is okay, just very swollen and sore. And hoping she can attend cheer camp at the end of the month. 

[Rachel333]

When I was probably 15 I went to the doctor for possible kidney pain and my mom came in at the end and was asking the doctor a few questions. The doctor said something like, "Well, we can rule a few things out because she's not active yet" and my mom misinterpreted that and loudly said, "Well she has her period now," and the doctor had to explain that she meant sexually active.

Not a big deal now, but I was absolutely mortified at the time. 

[Kjaerringa]

Being naive about sex doesn't surprise me one bit. I was born in 1959, with parents who allowed school to give The Talk. We had typical late 69s, early 70s sex ed, complete with breast models to check for lumps and condoms to put on zucchini. Yes. I giggle  when I check cucumbers for firmness at the grocers even now.  Maybe that's why the Duggars love pickles???  Anyway. My friends and I...none of us...had older sisters. When they taught about periods, they used terms like 'rich discharge'....but nobody mentioned blood. In fact, the diagrams were blue, as I recall. So we actually worried that we would not know when we 'Got It'. So the morning I woke up, having Become a Woman in the night....I knew right  away what was happening. I had read all the Cherry Ames, Stuxent Nurse mysteries. I knew what a hemorrhage was. Seriously. So...if we could be THAT misled....just imagine how mixed up messages got in the Duggar household.....

[Snarkylark]

On 7/20/2017 at 1:52 PM, ItsMeY'all said:

When asked if they broke any courtship standards did Jeremy and Jinger say anything? Seems like we didn't hear from them. I guess since they claim each couple sets their own standards those two could have just set more "liberal" rules for themselves?

I also noticed they were quite quiet when that topic came up. But they did mention the kiss at their wedding was their first so idk. 

[Shadoewolf]

Oldest wolfie won't touch bananas anymore after we had her put condoms on them. She was majorly squicked out by the slimy feeling of the lubricant. Good lesson, just in case!

[MadeItOut]

The other important thing is proper names for private parts of course.

I have no issue with them asking regarding pregnancy status, but it's the repeats that get me. I'm on early annual mammograms and get asked every year. If it's the usual girl, she now asks me: " you know, what I'm going to ask, any status change?" - because the first gear we met, we'd just had the infertility confirmed. Last year she was off and the cover girl kept asking. Every time I'd said "no, we're infertile" which always makes my voice crack and typically he will cuddle me. On the fourth or fifth, I'm afraid I lost it with her: "what the hel is wrong with you? Did you not pick up we're infertile and devastated?!" She shut up and did the whole of the rest in silence. I did mention it this year and discovered that in fact she'd spoken to the surgeon and tried to have me flagged as 'unexpectedly aggressive' only the surgeon refused and reprimanded her for lacking empathy. Her excuse was that she couldn't tell as my profession (actor) is listed.

[cascarones]

I'm glad they go ahead and ask/ check, I went in to get a particularly nasty migraine taken care of at urgent care this week and got told I'm in a happy condition so they couldn't treat it as they had previously. So there's everyone's surprise pregnancy announcement out of Texas  

When I face timed other half he looked as if you'd taken every shell on a beach and dumped it on his head, truly shell shocked. Not entirely sure why I'm sharing it here, but I'm excited, it's too early to tell anyone IRL and he's a little too anxious and neurotic at the moment to feel anything close to joy. So it'll be a bit of a lonely ride for a bit. 

[backyard sylph]

Of course it's important and right they ask, and of course you'd want your daughter to be free to tell the truth, but I can understand why being asked over and over again is upsetting. Here you are, doing what you're told or believe is the right thing, and probably with some strength of conviction, and people will not stop acting like you must be lying. Why would you trust medical professionals who refuse to take you seriously?

If they need to be certain you understand what sex is, they can do that, and probably should, anyway, just for general good reasons, without treating you, an individual, as the exact person you've chosen not to be. I dislike lowest common denominator attitudes. The LCD should be kept in mind, but not applied with little consideration for context, the rest of the conversation, or respect for an earnest young girl sitting in front of you in worry over a medical problem. I remember being a teenager at the doctor, definitely not sexually active, worried that something about me would make me appear so anyway. They just add to that baggage with what feels like a relentless accusation at a trial.

[Thorns]

People lie for a varity of reasons.

Some are in denial, some do not really lie they honestly do not know as mentioned here, some are sure they can't get pregnant for a number of reasons (that might or might not be true/permanent/miracles happen), liability is a huge issue esp in the US... and, there are HCG-producing tumors that might be a differential diagnosis. A number of reasons for a pregnancy test

Is the patient anywhere near the fertil age bracket? Do the patient have symptoms that might be pregnancy related (even by a very slim margin)?  Is the patient going to be exposed to something that can potentially be a risk for a fetus? If yes, a pregnancy test will get done. 
(And hysterectomies are really no reason not to do it. A fetus can implant quite a lot of places that's not a uterus.)

[backyard sylph]

It isn't the doing of it. It's the communication about it. People will react poorly to the assumption they are lying about who they are as a person, if repeatedly asked. It will feel like a lack of respect. As I stated with detail, of course these things must be done. But expecting anyone to trust you when you aren't taking them seriously is a misguided expectation. Health is at issue. Logical fallacy creates the idea that because you'd lie or you see people lying, you should treat everyone as a liar. If you treat me as a liar because of a context other than my own, I'm not trusting your medical prowess.

[singsingsing]

I have to admit, I find it a little odd that people get offended by medical professionals inquiring about their sexual activity. I mean... that's a pretty important component of your overall health. I think that regardless of age, sexual experience, or personal/religious convictions, if you can't handle questions from doctors and nurses like, "Are you sexually active?" or, "Is it possible you might be pregnant?" something is wrong. Doesn't matter what your age or status is - 13-year-olds have sex, 80-year-olds have sex, married people have sex, single people have sex, people who say they're waiting for marriage have sex, people who barely know what sex is have sex, and people in all categories can be victims of sexual abuse.

I also don't really like this implication that people who are waiting for marriage for religious reasons shouldn't be subjected to the 'insult' of being asked about their sexual activity. "How dare you ask me that? Of course not! I'm better than that!" Okay. Relax. Your doctor needs this information to properly treat you. If you're that firm in your convictions, it shouldn't be shocking and distressing to you if someone questions them.

 That said, treating a patient with disdain or mockery is absolutely unacceptable. 

[backyard sylph]

1 minute ago, singsingsing said:

I have to admit, I find it a little odd that people get offended by medical professionals inquiring about their sexual activity. I mean... that's a pretty important component of your overall health. I think that regardless of age, sexual experience, or personal/religious convictions, if you can't handle questions from doctors and nurses like, "Are you sexually active?" or, "Is it possible you might be pregnant?" something is wrong. Doesn't matter what your age or status is - 13-year-olds have sex, 80-year-olds have sex, married people have sex, single people have sex, people who say they're waiting for marriage have sex, people who barely know what sex is have sex, and people in all categories can be victims of sexual abuse.

I also don't really like this implication that people who are waiting for marriage for religious reasons shouldn't be subjected to the 'insult' of being asked about their sexual activity. "How dare you ask me that? Of course not! I'm better than that!" Okay. Relax. Your doctor needs this information to properly treat you. If you're that firm in your convictions, it shouldn't be shocking and distressing to you if someone questions them.

 That said, treating a patient with disdain or mockery is absolutely unacceptable. 

It's that they are asked repeatedly, and not believed. Not that they are asked at first.

[nomoxian]

15 hours ago, Jane M. said:

I was taken to the ER once when I was 15 for a very bad case of nausea and throwing up. So the very first question by the nurse was "could you be pregnant?" Dear god, I swear I saw my mom turning into Hulk and says: "WHY WOULD SHE BE PREGNANT? SHE'S 15 YEARS OLD!!!!!!!!!"

Poor nurse.  I was still a virgin so no, I wasn't pregnant. It was acid reflux.

When I was around 15 - when I started having intercourse - I was under a lot of stress, which manifested itself by vomiting every morning. I wasn't aware that my mom knew or thought I was sexually active, so I was shocked when on the drive to the doctor, she said "Get a pregnancy test"

[singsingsing]

Just now, backyard sylph said:

It's that they are asked repeatedly, and not believed. Not that they are asked at first.

That would be an example of treating a patient with disdain, imo. If you think a patient might be lying, fine - just do a pregnancy test. No need to interrogate them like they've committed a crime. I was responding more to people who are surprised or offended that a doctor would ask even once or twice. I think, "Are you sexually active?" and, "Are you sure?" are both valid questions. Beyond that, it gets ridiculous. At a certain point, it is on the patient to take responsibility for her own health.

[CoveredInBees]

17 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

To me, the "are you sexually active, no really" question is the same as "do you drink/smoke, no really" question.

I drink a bit of wine or a beer once or twice a year. I'm an ugly drunk, found that out in my younger days, and furthermore, don't like the taste of much liquor at all, so I. Do. Not. Drink. It. 

The doctor doesn't believe me, either.

And kudos to those who, for whatever reason, have kept their sexual urges in check until they find the one person they want to share that gift with. It's difficult, and some people feel it's passe. Clearly, it's not.

God, YES!

I very rarely drink, I tried very hard for the first year of uni (to fit in) but by the time I was turning 20 (legal age is 18 here) I was pretty much tee total. I remember having to fill in a health questionnaire for my first job after uni which asked for units drunk per week, I put 1 (because I generally maybe have a drink every 3rd Christmas or so if I feel like it so I can't put zero). The boss on my first day (there was a group of us starting) basically told the group a "Hilarious anecdote" about how one of us had only put 1 unit per week down and how ludicrous it was....... I just stood there like a lemon (instead of mentioning privacy laws - which is what I would do now).

I also get a lot of:

Are you driving?

Are you religious? (It tends to be more along the lines of "you're not one of those religious nuts are you?")

Go on, just have one....

Go on......

Go on...

Go on..

BUT WHY?

Sometimes over the years I've caved (peer pressure when you're pushing 40......... come on!)

But mostly I just have better friends who like me for me (and my ability to always be designated driver  )

 

NB: I also didn't live with MrCoveredInBees until after we married (apart from a stint in student accommodation together which no-one seems to count!), people also found this utterly bizarre (almost contemptible) despite the fact my parents house was within walking distance to my workplace and we were saving every penny for the wedding.  

[backyard sylph]

Just now, singsingsing said:

That would be an example of treating a patient with disdain, imo. If you think a patient might be lying, fine - just do a pregnancy test. No need to interrogate them like they've committed a crime. I was responding more to people who are surprised or offended that a doctor would ask even once or twice. I think, "Are you sexually active?" and, "Are you sure?" are both valid questions. Beyond that, it gets ridiculous. At a certain point, it is on the patient to take responsibility for her own health.

I remember going to the doctor for something and being certain I couldn't be pregnant on account of not having had intercourse in rather a long time, but they did a test anyway, as might be sensible in other circumstances. Only it was annoying to have to pay for it, as it was sort of done "behind my back," and then I'm told, "you were right; you're not pregnant!" all cheerfully. I did reply with sarcasm, I will confess. If I'd been there as a young girl with my mom, it would have felt horrible. When my youngest daughter had some problems at 15, I remember they were certain she was lying for my benefit. And she felt, and still feels ten years later, still dealing with the issue, that her concerns are never taken very seriously.

@CoveredInBees some number of people like to think everyone else is getting up to whatever they're getting up to. If you're not, you'll be called a liar, or they will expend a stupid amount of energy trying to convince you otherwise. Which is, again, a lack of respect.

[foreign fundie]

Reminds me of when I gave birth the first time. They wanted to give me a rhesus shot, but I said no need, because my husband is also rhesus negative. After some hesitation they accepted, but told me they would test the baby after birth and if positive, I would still get the shot in 72 hours. I said fine, whatever.

However the baby's blood work took a while and the nurse rang up the lab really angry three days after birth, threatening them with what could happen if the baby was positive and I did not get the shot in time. I had no idea what all the fuss was about, since two negative parents in my understanding could not produce a positive baby. It wasn't until later it dawned on me that they had to take into account that not all babies biologically descent from their legal father. Me not protesting the procedures must have fueled suspicion!

[CoveredInBees]

That is so very true @backyard sylph my dad was a long distance lorry driver when I was growing up and was away from home at least 5 days a week. Other women (I'll not call them friends - small town acquaintances) would always make jokes about him having a second family (generally in my earshot too - classy). They were either divorced themselves or in unhappy marriages (I know one of them was definitely having an affair) and couldn't fathom that my parents were actually OK. 

[singsingsing]

42 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

I remember going to the doctor for something and being certain I couldn't be pregnant on account of not having had intercourse in rather a long time, but they did a test anyway, as might be sensible in other circumstances. Only it was annoying to have to pay for it, as it was sort of done "behind my back," 

Ahhh, see, I'm in the land of universal healthcare and I did not even consider this. Interesting, I hadn't even considered the perspective of having to pay for the doctor's skepticism. Hmm...

[feministxtian]

I always get the "when was your last period" question. I answer honestly...sometime in early 1991. That usually shuts down any further questioning. 

The "how much do you drink" question. I answer with zero drinks per week. I get looked at real funny and always seem to have to explain that I really don't like the taste of booze and I hate the feeling of being out of control, so I don't drink. But, I make up for it when I admit to smoking.

[TakingBibleClasses]

2 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I also don't really like this implication that people who are waiting for marriage for religious reasons shouldn't be subjected to the 'insult' of being asked about their sexual activity. "How dare you ask me that? Of course not! I'm better than that!" Okay. Relax. Your doctor needs this information to properly treat you. If you're that firm in your convictions, it shouldn't be shocking and distressing to you if someone questions them.

But I find that the stigma often works the other way. I'm not proud of my virginity in a medical context; it's almost a source of shame. (I'm also 28 years old, going to Student Health in a large secular university.) When I get expressions of disbelief I'm not insulted because they should know how "pure" I am ("purity" talk is BS anyway); I'm embarrassed because my decision seems laughably prudish and unbelievable. (And, let's be real, I'm often sad, because I thought I would be married by now and sometimes wonder what's wrong with me that I'm not. [I know the answer is "nothing"; my feelings don't. ])

And, really, the doctor example probably wasn't the best one anyway. I want doctors to ask about my sexual activity; they should have every piece of data they need to treat me well medically! I don't want anyone, doctors or otherwise, to consider my decision impossible, hypocritical, or worthy of ridicule. I don't think I'm better than anyone who makes a different decision; I just happen to have made this one, and it would be nice for it to be acknowledged as valid and truthful, as many people have been doing in this forum (thanks!).

[nst]

4 hours ago, cascarones said:

I'm glad they go ahead and ask/ check, I went in to get a particularly nasty migraine taken care of at urgent care this week and got told I'm in a happy condition so they couldn't treat it as they had previously. So there's everyone's surprise pregnancy announcement out of Texas  

 

Wonderful news !!!