Joy and Austin: dating with a purpose .... or something (part 4)

[singsingsing]

Man, I think some of you are really underestimating how little certain fundies care about the Josh thing. There is literally no doubt in my mind that there are hundreds if not thousands of girls falling all over themselves for a chance to marry a Duggar boy, and plenty of fundie dads who would be just as enthusiastic at the prospect for their daughters.

[Gillyweed]

54 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Man, I think some of you are really underestimating how little certain fundies care about the Josh thing. There is literally no doubt in my mind that there are hundreds if not thousands of girls falling all over themselves for a chance to marry a Duggar boy, and plenty of fundie dads who would be just as enthusiastic at the prospect for their daughters.

Isn't sibling molestation *common* in their circle anyway? (Based on what the Duggars have said regarding the issue)

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

Man, I think some of you are really underestimating how little certain fundies care about the Josh thing. There is literally no doubt in my mind that there are hundreds if not thousands of girls falling all over themselves for a chance to marry a Duggar boy, and plenty of fundie dads who would be just as enthusiastic at the prospect for their daughters.

I agree, the molesting had no affect on fundy girls or their family wanting to marry into the Duggar family. The cheating on his wife, did though, there is one thing that fundys don't tolerate it is infidelity, or at least getting CAUGHT cheating, I do think that at least in the short term a lot of families ran from the idea of letting their daughters marry JD Joe or Si. 

[Tangy Bee]

10 hours ago, SassyPants said:

In the fundie world what does a Duggar boy have to offer?

No educations

No jobs

The only one that has anything that makes him attractive is JD and he seemingly has no interest.

 

Hey! Don't worry. They have the Duggar name to offer. What esle do they need. These people are famous ALL over the world & getting the cover of People mag...for just having a 2nd baby. WTF??

[eveandadam]

It's mind blowing that in their world "convicted rapist" and "child molester" is absolutely not a red flag, but homosexuality, being a more liberal brand of christianity or catholic are.

Have they no self-reflection or self-awareness at all?!

Or maybe: WE ARE WRONG? What if actually they have it right? Has the brainwashing started with me? Should I divorce my wife and look for the closest convicted rapist and fundamentalist christian in my area? Maybe God is sending me a message with this?

[eveandadam]

9 hours ago, Gillyweed said:

Isn't sibling molestation *common* in their circle anyway? (Based on what the Duggars have said regarding the issue)

Yes, according to Jill "two thirds of all families deal with something like this", ok......

 

Also, I've been wanting to say something on the molestation scandal for a really long time, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to on this forum and haven't read anything directly about it in the rules. So sorry in advance if I will be doing something really wrong right now. Pelase, delete if needed. Here it goes:

Didn't Josh repeat his molestation several times over several years? I think I heard them say that he only stopped at 16 or 17 and started when he was 14 years old. Am I correct with this? The police repart took place when again? Did it continue afterwards?

What I really wanted to say is: isn't it convenient that Josh allegedly stopped before he turned 18 and was legally an adult? Plus: this reminds me so much of the Lena Dunham "scandal" of her allegedly molesting her little sister until she, Lena, was 17 years old. Also, very convenient for her to stop at 17 , right?

For me, Josh and Lena give off the same vibe. Their story is eerily similar and something definately smells rotten and is fishy about their timelines and ages. Fishy, fishy, fishy.

 

 

 

[danni9242]

Reports were filed in 2006 when Josh was 18 but they were sure to inform the authorities it had all been dealt with. I believe the accused events happened when he was 15 and then he 'went away' and all boys were allegedly henceforth banned from being alone with the girls. 

[imokit]

1 hour ago, danni9242 said:

Reports were filed in 2006 when Josh was 18 but they were sure to inform the authorities it had all been dealt with. I believe the accused events happened when he was 15 and then he 'went away' and all boys were allegedly henceforth banned from being alone with the girls. 

Which didn't last as there are plenty of pics of boys including Josh with their sisters. (One of Josie on his lap). 

[Fundie Bunny]

13 hours ago, Kelsey said:

I'm not sure that Joshgate 1.0 is the reason the other boys aren't married. They weren't married before that and JD was much older than Josh already (Josh's marriage age). Also, these people are willing to overlook anything in order to marry a daughter off ie, Tabitha Paine. 

I don't think Joshgate is the reason the Boys aren't married. I actually think Joshgate is the reason why Josh was married off so early. If Joshgate hadn'te happen, he would have been much older.

[Snarkle Motion]

35 minutes ago, Fundie Bunny said:

I don't think Joshgate is the reason the Boys aren't married. I actually think Joshgate is the reason why Josh was married off so early. If Joshgate hadn'te happen, he would have been much older.

I agree. I think Jill has demonstrated how enmeshed the family is and how hard it is for them to leave. I think for the boys the idea of being independent and in charge of a family is scary since they don't have any job or real life experiences. The girls can trust their headship but the guys are much more likely to wait to enter relationships for this reason. 

[imokit]

I agree with the others - Joshgate 1 - he was married off young so that he'd get sexual release/get the liability to become an acknowledged adult, because marriage=adult.  He's a bad egg.  And in Gothard circles I don't think its as big a deal as it should be.

27 year olds Jana & John are still kids and under parental authority (and under umbrella of protection S***t).  Josh married at 20 and became an adult in his own right at 20 - he makes his own umbrella of protection/becomes a headship. If Joy marries at 19, she'll be an adult under husband's headship despite Jana still being at the kids table.

Josh2 - made the family look bad, but in Fundy circles wasn't as bad as it couldn't have been because he's a straying adult rebelling.  He isn't a kid.  Thus its more on him.  Since he's already out of the umbrella of protection its not JB & M's fault.

Thus it shouldn't have an impact on his brothers.

His sons on the other hand, will either need to find non fundy brides or will be screwed over in the marriage market.  Sins of the father is a big deal.

 

I think the reason why we haven't seen the other boys marry at Josh's age is because they aren't ready to settle and the family don't feel like they need to be pushed to avoid a scandal (the way Josh was).

 

[Cheetah]

12 hours ago, eveandadam said:

It's mind blowing that in their world "convicted rapist" and "child molester" is absolutely not a red flag, but homosexuality, being a more liberal brand of christianity or catholic are.

Have they no self-reflection or self-awareness at all?!

Or maybe: WE ARE WRONG? What if actually they have it right? Has the brainwashing started with me? Should I divorce my wife and look for the closest convicted rapist and fundamentalist christian in my area? Maybe God is sending me a message with this?

My ELCA pastor said something interesting the other day.  For background, unlike pretty much every pastor I've had, this guy didn't grow up Lutheran.  He started as Catholic, became Evangelical for a few years, and then settled into Lutheranism.  Anyway, he said that Evangelicals think that you are responsible for every thought that goes through your head.  So imagine being a teen/young adult with normal sexual thoughts occasionally (or more than occasionally) and having the message that this is a sin and you are a bad person for having these thoughts.  Anyway, no wonder these people don't put a higher weight on molesting your sisters than they do.  It's the same bad as thinking about sex!   And by the way, girls, better dress super-modestly so those boys don't think about sex any more than they already do.  

[VelociRapture]

@eveandadamI don't find it convenient because I honestly think his were crimes of seriously limited opportunity. Had he been raised differently then he may have felt comfortable masturbating or wound up in a consensual sexual relationship instead. You'll note that the only accusations made since he's been married concerned affairs between Josh and at least one adult partner (though possibly more.)

As is, I think we should be very cautious in implying that anything other than what has been confirmed actually occurred.

[eveandadam]

3 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

@eveandadamI don't find it convenient because I honestly think his were crimes of seriously limited opportunity. Had he been raised differently then he may have felt comfortable masturbating or wound up in a consensual sexual relationship instead. You'll note that the only accusations made since he's been married concerned affairs between Josh and at least one adult partner (though possibly more.)

As is, I think we should be very cautious in implying that anything other than what has been confirmed actually occurred.

I was not implying anything just said what (I thought) they mentionned anyway. And I'm just bothered by the not exact timeline of when things happened. It's all a haze and very vague, probably on purpose. There are different versions of the story out there. The interviews of Michelel and Jb / Jessa and Jill seemed to contradict the police report in some respects.

[singsingsing]

Just now, eveandadam said:

I was not implying anything just said what (I thought) they mentionned anyway. And I'm just bothered by the not exact timeline of when things happened. It's all a haze and very vague, probably on purpose. There are different versions of the story out there. The interviews of Michelel and Jb / Jessa and Jill seemed to contradict the police report in some respects.

It's really not a haze. Josh's actions were discovered just after his 14th birthday in March of 2002. He admitted to groping his sisters and another girl on 4 to 5 occasions. He then admitted in July of the same year to another incident. Josh was disciplined at that point (whatever that means). Then in March of 2003, right around his 15th birthday, there was another incident. At that point Josh was sent away to a fundie program because his parents felt sending him to juvie would only make him worse. He was in the program from March 17th, 2003 to July 17th, 2003. According to everyone involved, nothing more occurred after Josh returned home from that program, at which point he was 15 years old.

[eveandadam]

26 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

It's really not a haze. Josh's actions were discovered just after his 14th birthday in March of 2002. He admitted to groping his sisters and another girl on 4 to 5 occasions. He then admitted in July of the same year to another incident. Josh was disciplined at that point (whatever that means). Then in March of 2003, right around his 15th birthday, there was another incident. At that point Josh was sent away to a fundie program because his parents felt sending him to juvie would only make him worse. He was in the program from March 17th, 2003 to July 17th, 2003. According to everyone involved, nothing more occurred after Josh returned home from that program, at which point he was 15 years old.

I didn't know there was such a clear and official timeline to it. The first time I'm reading this. thank you for clarifying! didn't the first special (14 kids and pregnant again) air in 2004?

[choralcrusader8613]

Just now, eveandadam said:

I didn't know there was such a clear and official timeline to it. The first time I'm reading this. thank you for clarifying! didn't the first special (14 kids and pregnant again) air in 2004?

Yes, it did. You can see (for a quick second) that Josh has a shaved head at the end of 14CAPA, and some have speculated that he looked like that because he had recently come back from Jesus-hab Pt. 1.

[JesusCampSongs]

18 minutes ago, eveandadam said:

I didn't know there was such a clear and official timeline to it. The first time I'm reading this. thank you for clarifying! didn't the first special (14 kids and pregnant again) air in 2004?

Yep, which is why his head is shaved in some of the shots from that special-- and also why many of us don't believe TLC's party line of "we didn't know he molested his sisters until the scandal broke."

[FleeJanaFree]

I did a two day training in order to volunteer at a women's shelter. I  can't help but wonder if Jill got mixed up when she said "two thirds of all families deal with something like this", and meant to say 1/3.  One in three women experience abuse, whether it be sexual, physical, or emotional. Maybe she got a real statistic incorrect, or yes maybe it's just an Alternative Fact her cult came up with. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

5 hours ago, FleeJanaFree said:

I did a two day training in order to volunteer at a women's shelter. I  can't help but wonder if Jill got mixed up when she said "two thirds of all families deal with something like this", and meant to say 1/3.  One in three women experience abuse, whether it be sexual, physical, or emotional. Maybe she got a real statistic incorrect, or yes maybe it's just an Alternative Fact her cult came up with. 

I'm fairly certain that this is an alternative fact, that they believe to be the truth.

[Markie]

Joy definitely has the most twang in her accent, especially any "ing" words. Wonder which siblings she will include in her wedding party? She and Josiah and the twins are the closest in age so perhaps they will be ushers. Amy seemed to have a close bond with Joy when she was younger but I think some of those bridges are burnt. I would like to see an outdoor, western themed wedding. Poor Jenny will have lost both her Sister Moms! 

[Kira]

On 2/23/2017 at 8:56 AM, SassyPants said:

In the fundie world what does a Duggar boy have to offer? 

No educations

No jobs

The only one that has anything that makes him attractive is JD and he seemingly has no interest.

 

Just  like so many others in fundieland.

The Duggars situation(the bolded and unmarried kidults) is not unique in fundieland

On 2/21/2017 at 1:26 AM, eveandadam said:

It seems to be a trend that the daughters have it easier to get married in those circles than the sons? Why is that? Or is it because men need to be older and financially more together to start a courtship, hence, they get married 5 years later on average? One exception is the oldest son but the rest of the boys seems to be stuck without a women for a far longer time.

I think there are a million answers to this question. Here is one: The boys/men are enjoying their freedom. Flying planes, going on tours etc. They have it better than the girls.  I think many of the women/girls take finding "Prince Charming" seriously. 

 

 

ETA: 1. I agree with @singsingsing, I've never understood why we thought fundies would care about Josh's scandals. Some of the fundies we follow have dealt with similar situations.

2. I think it's too soon to say no one wants to marry a Duggar boy. It looks like at least one the boys will soon announce a courtship.   

3. I want to make a thread about SAHS and the Tabitha Paine debacle. We seem to only talk about the SAHD, but I think could be an interesting discussion.  

[Markie]

I picture Joy in a dress something like this. 

[Gillyweed]

14 minutes ago, Markie said:

I picture Joy in a dress something like this. 

I feel like Joy would go for something simpler- no lace or sparkles or ruffles or fringe. Tbh, I could see her in a dress like Anna's

Edit: While looking at wedding dresses for Joy, I found this. IT HAS POCKETS!!! I WANT IT!

[Jiraffe]

I'd love to see Joy do something like this, she's never been super girly-girl and I hope she doesn't try to look like someone she's not for the wedding. I feel like this idea would be right up her alley: