Razing Ruth's Sister Pregnant out of Wedlock

[apple1]

I just hope that no Gothard-based "agency", attorney, or other group is involved in the adoption process, if she decides to go that way. (Yes, I know Gothard's official stance on adoption, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if there isn't a Gothard machine behind the scenes that tries to "manage" various situations...)

[Peas n carrots]

Adoption is a difficult choice, but so is raising the baby in this case. It's a tough choice either way. Nobody is trying to force her to choose adoption, and it shouldn't be considered a horrible thing to just suggest that it is actually an option. If Rachel wants to keep the baby, we should support her completely. If she wants to go the adoption route, we should still support her. She doesn't have to earn the right to give a kid up for adoption only after exhausting all options for raising it herself. It takes more than just money and resources to raise a child, and it's her choice to make no matter which way she decides. Raising the child herself is not a superior option, just as it's not an inferior option. And where the hell did I ever remotely suggest that this decision should be taken lightly?

I wasn't implying that you said that it should be taken lightly. I agree with you 100% that it is an option, neither better or worse. However, I feel that adoption is sometimes a permanent solution to a temporary problem. You can get assistance with food, shelter and education - a child should not be given up because one is currently poor and has little support. However I understand for Rachel there is a myriad of issues that come into play.

I am an adoptee lite, and I admit I have some bias against the adoption industry and some of the state laws that are in place (for example, I have no way to ever access my original birth certificate or any medical records - not an issue anymore since I've been reunited but nevertheless it rubs me the wrong way that the state continues to treat me as a child). If you're interested, check out http://www.adultadoptees.org/ It's a place where you'll probably see a wider variety of opinions on adoption than typically seen on other adoption boards online.

For the record, I too support Rachel in whatever decision she makes. I'm confident she will make the best decision for herself and her child. I just want her to be armed with as much information and as many different opinions as possible.

[valsa]

a child should not be given up because one is currently poor and has little support.

I disagree. I don't think a woman should ever be pressured to give up a child just because she's poor and has little or no support, but that is a perfectly practical reason to make an adoption plan if she desires it. I'm not in a financial position to have a child right now so if I got pregnant, I absolutely would not raise the child (I'd personally get an abortion but if that weren't an available option for some reason, I'd choose adoption) And that's okay.

The sad reality is that young single women who have children while poor usually (obviously not always) stay poor. I think it's a little disingenuous to use phrases like "currently poor", because it does not recognize that, in many cases, having and keeping a child is an impediment to getting out of poverty.

[ellerigby]

First, my thoughts are with you, Ruth, and your sister. I wish you both nothing but the best.

Second (and my main point), I saw that someone else mentioned Arkansas Legal Services on here, which is an AWESOME option. However, state-funded pro-bono groups are often very sadly overworked. Another option for free legal aid is at a (reputable) law school's legal aid clinic. I spent my final year of law school working at my university's clinic in their family law division, and we saw many cases just like this (I handled mostly adult guardianship cases, so I wouldn't be a great help here, but other students handled more adoption, custody, and paternity cases). Student lawyers are well supervised and often have significantly fewer cases than a full-time legal aid lawyer. In my experiences, student lawyers who work at the clinic are deeply committed to social justice issues and will pour their heart and soul into their cases.

I don't know exactly where you are, but many large state schools have a law school with a good-sized clinic. For example, the University of Arkansas has a very large clinic program with one section that focuses on civil/family matters (website: law.uark.edu/prospective/jd/clinical-programs. html). Their phone number is (479) 575-3056.

If you haven't found legal assistance yet, I hope that helps. If you have any questions regarding law school clinics in your area, please feel free to PM me.

*edited to break the link.

[Lillybee]

It works pretty much the same in California, too.

[ellerigby]

Ahhhh- I didn't realize she was in CA- I thought I read Arkansas somewhere. I actually can give much better recommendations for CA legal aid clinics. I don't know where you are, Ruth, but if your university doesn't have a law school, Berkley, UCLA, and USC have great ones with solid clinic programs.

[Kitchen Princess]

Ruth's sister is in NW Arkansas, so that's very good to get the info for the UofA. I had, in fact, never heard of a law clinic like that, although I know several graduates of the law program at UofA. Thanks!

[muffynbear]

Ruth posted an update on her blog. I guess "Isaiah" is courting someone else now.

http://razingruth.blogspot.com/2012/02/ ... mment-form

[SamuraiKatz]

Ruth posted an update on her blog. I guess "Isaiah" is courting someone else now.

http://razingruth.blogspot.com/2012/02/ ... mment-form

So he gets to skip off as if nothing happened. The societal burden always falls on the woman.

The double standard is sickening. We live in the 21st century and should be beyond this.

[fundifugee]

So he gets to skip off as if nothing happened. The societal burden always falls on the woman.

The double standard is sickening. We live in the 21st century and should be beyond this.

I agree, it's completely unfair and unjust.

However, it may be the best case scenario for Ruth's sister. She gets to decide what she needs to do -- adopt or keep the child, as well as open or closed adoption -- without his interference. If she does elect to keep the child, she can still sue for child support and he'll have to cough up a DNA sample and then start paying, whether he wants to acknowledge the child or not.

I am sure it would feel much more secure if he would own up and get involved, but clearly he is a jerk in a manipulative, dishonest family, and his involvement would be just more stress for Ruth's sister.

[kb2]

I'm glad she got so much help from social services and legal free aid.

I would trust a guy who deserts a girl he got pregnant way less than a guy who had an extra-marital child early in life. And that's my obvious statement of the night. But really, these people really don't care at all about being good people, just looking like it.

[SamuraiKatz]

I agree, it's completely unfair and unjust.

However, it may be the best case scenario for Ruth's sister. She gets to decide what she needs to do -- adopt or keep the child, as well as open or closed adoption -- without his interference. If she does elect to keep the child, she can still sue for child support and he'll have to cough up a DNA sample and then start paying, whether he wants to acknowledge the child or not.

I am sure it would feel much more secure if he would own up and get involved, but clearly he is a jerk in a manipulative, dishonest family, and his involvement would be just more stress for Ruth's sister.

True. But to a big extent his family can hide his part in it. After all, the evidence of his part in the act isn't visible for the world to see. Ruth's sister is better off without the jerk. The double standards and lack of forgiveness in ATI/IFB cult is truly awful.

[BravaAmica]

Ugh. This whole situation makes me so angry. I really wish there was a way to out this man without backlash on Rachel or otherwise harming Ruth and her family.

[marmalade]

Man, I just read the update and I'm livid. So much for Christian integrity and honesty with these ATI fools. The only ones who tell the truth are the ones who have left the cult.

[Lainey]

I'm glad she got so much help from social services and legal free aid.

I would trust a guy who deserts a girl he got pregnant way less than a guy who had an extra-marital child early in life. And that's my obvious statement of the night. But really, these people really don't care at all about being good people, just looking like it.

Yep. To think my completely nonreligious husband did the right thing and took responsibility for his kid when he got a girl pregnant at 19. I thought you couldn't be moral without god? Hmmmm.

[MamaJunebug]

If the following's been said before, forgive me:

He's not gonna walk as easily as his kind (irresponsible men) used to. It's 2012 and when that baby is 20 and wants to meet his sperm donor, it'll be 2032 and technology likely will be able to tell even more than the father's ID.

Maybe that's one of the reasons many of the extremists are repulsed by science: It has the power to change the power structure enormously ("enormous" by the extremist-power-elite's standards)!

[Deleted03]

Sounds like the 60's again. this is very sad, I hope Rachel makes the decision she's the most comfortable with.

[apple1]

Not going with truth is going to come back and bite several involved in this.

I also hope that the decision to adopt out the child is what she really wants, and not something that she has been pressured into as damage control in a less than ideal situation. And that the adoption is being managed in a reputable manner. And please not to someone else in ATI.

Of course, Ruth has no control over any of this.

But I'm worried. Some things just don't add up.

[Peas n carrots]

I agree Apple1. I hope her ATI upbringing is not playing a role in why she might relinquish the child. I support her decision, but I hope it's not coming from any ATI.

I wonder if the family of the new girl he is courting has heard about this situation? I was under the impression that most of the ATI community knows about Rachel's situation now. Even if Isiah's family has been in denial, I would imagined the new girls family would still have reservations over their daughter courting a boy who was named in a scandal?

[apple1]

I agree Apple1. I hope her ATI upbringing is not playing a role in why she might relinquish the child. I support her decision, but I hope it's not coming from any ATI.

I wonder if the family of the new girl he is courting has heard about this situation? I was under the impression that most of the ATI community knows about Rachel's situation now. Even if Isiah's family has been in denial, I would imagined the new girls family would still have reservations over their daughter courting a boy who was named in a scandal?

Perhaps it is well hidden - or well denied - in those circles. ??

[Visionoyahweh]

Isaiah needs to pay for his actions somehow.

I'd contact the poor girl he's courtin' and tell her everything. That may not be possible since she's under daddy's protection.

This whole thing pisses me off to no end!

[Deleted03]

well you know when this happened in the 50's, that sometimes would not deter future prospects. It all stems from the worth you give to women.

[super skeptic]

Maybe I'm naive and have had a nice life, but sometimes I get this nagging feeling when it comes to Razing Ruth that all the drama is too much to be true.

I don't know. Are her stories corroborated?

[apple1]

Maybe I'm naive and have had a nice life, but sometimes I get this nagging feeling when it comes to Razing Ruth that all the drama is too much to be true.

I don't know. Are her stories corroborated?

Ruth is for real.

[pixydust]

Maybe I'm naive and have had a nice life, but sometimes I get this nagging feeling when it comes to Razing Ruth that all the drama is too much to be true.

I don't know. Are her stories corroborated?

If I told even half of what happened in my fundie lite childhood, and the bad decisions that I've made since (I'm not good at telling who is being real and who is using me), and the bad luck that I've had, you wouldn't believe me. It sounds way to crazy and made up to be true. I believe Ruth, my moms exhusband was a lot like her dad.