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Razing Ruth's Sister Pregnant out of Wedlock


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If she knows what she is having and decides to keep it, I can send some hand-me-downs for a boy. Let us know, I think a lot of us here want to help out in some way.

Ditto this. I have baby boy stuff in spades. A lot of stuff that wasn't even worn, just washed.

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She might want to get in touch with The Farm. http://www.thefarmcommunity.com/ Ina May Gaskin is one of the founders and they at least used to let women go and give birth there, for free (and in some cases raise the child until the mother was able to get on her feet.)

If she isn't academically inclined - phlebotomy is very much in demand. I have to get my blood drawn frequently and all the phlebotomists are single moms, so the pay must be okay.

I'm in for a virtual "getting the heaven out of ATI" shower. With or without a baby she needs food, clothes and a movie once in awhile.

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I don't see why adoption should be considered a "last resort". It's a perfectly legitimate option, neither better nor worse than choosing to raise the baby herself. I don't like framing in it a way that suggests some kind of failure if she chooses adoption, like keeping it would have been better but she was just too weak to handle it or something. It's a choice that Rachel will have to make, but either way is valid. There's nothing wrong with mentioning that it's an option.

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I don't see why adoption should be considered a "last resort". It's a perfectly legitimate option, neither better nor worse than choosing to raise the baby herself. I don't like framing in it a way that suggests some kind of failure if she chooses adoption, like keeping it would have been better but she was just too weak to handle it or something. It's a choice that Rachel will have to make, but either way is valid. There's nothing wrong with mentioning that it's an option.

+1

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+1

As long as the baby doesn't go to an ATI family - is Goatherd still anti-adoption?

I second (third, fourth?) the virtual baby shower idea.

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Ruth, I remember you mentioning on your blog and here that you and Rachel have a complicated relationship. The best thing you (and us anonymous internet strangers) can do is offer her kindness. If you are able to, bring her to her prenatal appointments, help her fill out paperwork. Be a sounding board for her when and if she debates adoption, legal action against the father. Give her good factual advice but don't make her feel like she has to make a decision that pleases you. I understand that she has been "programmed" to see you and your "free" brother as the enemy and corrupters. If you act with disinterested kindness and affection, she will have to weigh that against your father's hypocrisy and heartlessness.

I wish you and your sister the best. I teach at a neighbor of your homestate and if she met the single mothers at my university, she would realize that while times can be tough, they are not the end of the world. Much love to you and Rachel

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My MiL has shunned all of her children at one point or another. We're on year 6 (give or take -- but full contact has been cut off for over a year) of our turn. This may be a big wake up call to "Rachel"... she knows (or I hope she does) that she's not a horrible person and look what her family is doing to her. She may look at her brother and sister's situations in a new light. I'm glad she has support. I'm scared to speculate what would have happened if this were the first child out in the family to veer off of the Gothard trail.

Ruth was my gateway fundie (well, ex-fundie) and she is how I found FJ. I feel very invested in her story and that of her family. We're moving tomorrow, so I've been packing all day and this has been on my mind as I pack. I just can't imagine, given her upbringing, what she's going through right now.

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I'm assuming abortion isn't an option for her, so I'll just offer up now- if she does decide to raise the child, I am happy to contribute to a shower for her online. And if she decides to place the child in an adoption, I'm happy to contribute money or goods for anything she needs to get through it in a safe and happy manner- if she wants to plant a tree, put together a nice scrapbook for/about the child/pregnancy, or simply wants to have a nice meal and little celebration for herself and her decision, I am happy to contribute something.

I'm keeping both you and Rachel and the rest of your family in my thoughts, Ruth.

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If people are interested in raising money for this girl here is a really easy donation way to do it. I'm not breaking the link because the whole point is to get people to sign up with the site, hopefully that's ok. If she is signing up for benefits she might want to be careful how much she raises as that can be a problem .. but it might be helpful for getting her move-in costs or something.

This was on a friends fb page and the particular person raised several thousand dollars in a short time period.

http://www.indiegogo.com/

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Even if "Rachel" doesn't need money for the baby (I hear that hospital costs etc. are met by the adoptive parents in the US sometimes) I'm sure she could use cash for counselling, getting started in her new life outside the cult, or even just getting a fucking manicure or something frivolous for once in her life.

Ruth, just say the word. I will for sure put in for your sister.

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I don't see why adoption should be considered a "last resort". It's a perfectly legitimate option, neither better nor worse than choosing to raise the baby herself. I don't like framing in it a way that suggests some kind of failure if she chooses adoption, like keeping it would have been better but she was just too weak to handle it or something. It's a choice that Rachel will have to make, but either way is valid. There's nothing wrong with mentioning that it's an option.

I don't think it's a wrong choice, but it's an extremely emotionally difficult decision for a lot of women, and adopted children often deal with their own emotional issues from being given up by their birth family. If the mother would like to care for the baby and there are financial reasons that are an issue at the time I think every avenue should be looked at first to get assistance for the mother before looking at adoption.

I don't think adoption is necessarily negative in and of itself. But it's not a decision that should be taken lightly, as it's not a decision you can easily - if at all - backtrack on.

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I wanted to thank everyone, again, for being so supportive.

I also want to update everyone on the situation. Rachel is leaning to adoption. It's hard for her to make this choice because of her love for children but I fully support her in whatever she decides to do. We're trying to figure out what the best course of action is from here. Doubtless, it will necessitate an attorney. There seem to be more resources where I am than where she is and that's a choice to consider, too (moving her here).

I wrote a blog post about it if you want more details but I think I've covered most of it here.

Many, many people have asked me about a virtual shower. Thank you for your compassion and desire to "shower" her with love. In the past, allowing or even appearing to encourage people to donate/tip-jar has caused people to question my blog and view my situation with criticism. I'm a little afraid of that happening again. Would it be okay for us to continue to think about it a little longer? Putting the baby up for adoption is going to mean she won't need baby things and while Rachel has needs, it would be wrong to accept money or items for a child that she won't be raising.

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Thank you for the update, Ruth. Adoption is not an easy choice to make. If Rachel chooses it hopefully she will be able to dictate exactly what happens, who gets the child, and be able to maintain some degree of contact. Please, please whatever happens get a paternity test and nail that shitbag Isaiah to the wall.

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I don't think it's a wrong choice, but it's an extremely emotionally difficult decision for a lot of women, and adopted children often deal with their own emotional issues from being given up by their birth family. If the mother would like to care for the baby and there are financial reasons that are an issue at the time I think every avenue should be looked at first to get assistance for the mother before looking at adoption.

I don't think adoption is necessarily negative in and of itself. But it's not a decision that should be taken lightly, as it's not a decision you can easily - if at all - backtrack on.

Adoption is a difficult choice, but so is raising the baby in this case. It's a tough choice either way. Nobody is trying to force her to choose adoption, and it shouldn't be considered a horrible thing to just suggest that it is actually an option. If Rachel wants to keep the baby, we should support her completely. If she wants to go the adoption route, we should still support her. She doesn't have to earn the right to give a kid up for adoption only after exhausting all options for raising it herself. It takes more than just money and resources to raise a child, and it's her choice to make no matter which way she decides. Raising the child herself is not a superior option, just as it's not an inferior option. And where the hell did I ever remotely suggest that this decision should be taken lightly?

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Is Rachel getting prenatal care? Does she have access to healthy food, prenatal vitamins, ect? Does she have access to a support group for adoptive mothers? I am keeping you both in my thoughts.

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I hope everything goes smoothly and Isaiah either signs away his rights or denies paternity completely. A comment on your blog mentioned that grandparents sometimes have the right to their grandchild so ask the lawyer about that. Also ask up until what point Rachel can change her mind (if she decides after the birth to not put the child up for adoption). Things like that.

I hope for everyone involved in this situation that it goes smoothly.

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I hope that Rachel makes the decision that is right for her.

I want to second what someone said on your blog--if Rachel does want to go the adoption route, Catholic Charities is a pretty legit group and there shouldn't be pressure to turn Catholic. Any reputable adoption agency should be able to handle the legal stuff at no cost to Rachel--while fundies may not be an every day occurrence, I can't imagine that sperm donors attempting to wiggle out of paternity are uncommon.

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Ruth, is you sister still going to prove the father of the baby is in fact the father? The baby will need his info such as health history later in life and also he shouldn't be allowed to get off scotch-free. He may be the world biggest dick right now but he still has to step up and be a man.

Please tell your sister that she has so much love and support out here in cyber land.

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I don't think she needs a lawyer, not right now at least. There is nothing a lawyer can do for her that someone else will not do for free. If she decides to go with adoption, the adoptive parents will pay all the legal expenses and even her medical bills and living expenses. If she decides to keep the child, the government will go after the dad themselves and handle paternity, court orders, etc.

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I don't think she needs a lawyer, not right now at least. There is nothing a lawyer can do for her that someone else will not do for free. If she decides to go with adoption, the adoptive parents will pay all the legal expenses and even her medical bills and living expenses. If she decides to keep the child, the government will go after the dad themselves and handle paternity, court orders, etc.

The above is true. And the info below is for anyone, not just for Ruth's sister.

I work for a county welfare agency in NJ, in the child support unit. (24 years in the agency, 10 years in Child Support.) When someone applies for TANF (Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, formerly "Public Assistance) they, as a condition of eligibility, assign their right to child support to the state. The state, which is then putting out money for the child, is very motivated to locate the father, establish paternity, and get a child support order to reimburse the state for the grant.

The location resources available are very impressive. Think access to every kind of database, every employer, every state tax record, every bank record, every bureau of vital statistics, every government office and agency and more (hence the "every") in the entire country.

Then once location is complete the agency attorney appears in court, okay, essentially for the state, but effectively for the mother. Because ultimately the paternity and support order is hers. We're limited to pursuing only paternity, support and medical insurance, but the mom can file her own complaint for custody, visitation, etc to be heard concurrently with our issues.

If genetic testing is ordered, we set it up using a nationwide network of labs (not sure if I can name the lab corporation: hint) and the father only has to reimburse us if he's found to be the father, and even then it's at a greatly reduced rate, I guess because of the volume we can guarantee the lab that has the contract. (Less than $100 for three people - mother, child and dad, vs. several hundred dollars if arranged privately.)

While my experience is limited to NJ, TANF is a federal program, so I think this explanation is going to be more or less applicable in every state.

Hope this helps.

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Another advantage of signing up for TANF initially ( if she keeps the baby ) is the access to child care and job training. If a court order for child support is obtained that is equal to or less than the amount of TANF, the state will be taking all the child support ( with possibly a small amount passed on, depending on the state ), but the mother and child will still have all the other supportive services. Once the mother finds a job she will be able to transition off TANF while already having the child support set up - and often child care and health insurance for a transitional period as well.

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I read Ruth's blog and that's how I found this forum. Such a hard situation for her sister!

I hope she can decide what will be best for her and the baby. I had a neighbor who was a good Catholic girl who ended up pregnant at the age of 16. She gave the baby up for adoption, but her family tried to cover it up. Young adults seem to find ways to have sex, even if they are closely watched.

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Young adults seem to find ways to have sex, even if they are closely watched.

Indeed. This is why my parents, and most I know, made sure that if I was going to have sex, I was prepared. :roll: Unlike Daddy Dearest here, and the rest of the fundie parents, who think if they don't acknowledge it, it will go away. :lol:

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I hope that Rachel makes the decision that is right for her.

I want to second what someone said on your blog--if Rachel does want to go the adoption route, Catholic Charities is a pretty legit group and there shouldn't be pressure to turn Catholic. Any reputable adoption agency should be able to handle the legal stuff at no cost to Rachel--while fundies may not be an every day occurrence, I can't imagine that sperm donors attempting to wiggle out of paternity are uncommon.

There are quite a few faith/church-based adoption agencies (the one the LDS church runs comes to mind). But, that may or may not be what Rachel wants (I can totally understand if she wants to shy away from any faith-based adoption agencies). I think the faith-based ones are more for people wanting to raise a child in a certain religion, but I could be wrong.

Anyways, I agree, any reputable adoption agency would handle the legal stuff. Also, sometimes, the couple (or single person) who will be adopting covers medical and some living expenses.

As for the shower. Just because she may give the child up for adoption, and won't need baby stuff, doesn't mean she shouldn't be a little pampered! I like to give this nice body lotion to my pregnant friends (in addition to the baby stuff) that is supposed to help with the feet swelling. Plus stuff like a body pillow to help any (potential) sciatic nerve pain in the last few months....or maybe even a gift certificate for a pregnancy massage (massage envy does a great job).

I know some people think it's tacky, but I say pregnancy is pregnancy, and she deserves some pampering!

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If you sister is looking to work with an agency, I have heard good things about Grace Adoptions in Conway. Christian, but they also are very big about making sure adoption is what the mother wants and she is not just giving up the child because of temporary problems according to a friend of mine who spoke to them but decided to keep her child.

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