Razing Ruth's Sister Pregnant out of Wedlock

[pomology]

Is Vyckie an FJer? I'm familiar with her from NLQ, and I have the same slight skepticism about over-dramatization there, too. I realize that I'm in a minute minority and not wishing to die on the sword about it, I guess I'd like to hear confirmatiom from sola or Alecto or another FJer with their "credentials".

Does it honestly matter? If Ruth isn't real, does it affect you (unless you give her money, which I don't know why you would do if you were skeptical?)

What would be the harm in assuming she's real?

[Guest Anonymous]

There have been epic FJ discussions of this, especially on the Yuku FJ. And Vyckie (NLQ Vyckie) actually contacted an FJer and had her start a thread implying that Ruth was fake. The FJer later admitted this. (The old Yuku board doesn't work very well; I can't get its Search function to work). I have a vague memory that some specifics of that whole thing have been discussed here.

Vyckie apparently doubted Ruth's story and asked PrincessJo to start a thread about it on the old yuku site.

I'm not sure that anyone has had direct contact with Ruth to verify that she is who she says she is. Ruth herself has said she does not want to give that information, in order to protect her privacy and that of her siblings, and accepts that some will doubt her because of it.

[oscar]

Have you ever read my posts about abortion?

And I believe in absolute medical privacy for an abortion. So it isn't for me to decide whether it is acceptable or not. It is legal and should be,

far_go, I was just about to ask if you were familiar with treemom's story. I have a relative and know a friend's wife who lived through similar, and I just wanted to reiterate the point that these aren't tragic yet isolated events that can be disregarded when making policy decisions. The number of real people who choose the risk and inconvenience of sustaining a pregnancy and then undergo an invasive medical procedure for routine birth control is vanishingly small - it's overwhelmingly more likely that a woman seeking a late-term abortion has a compelling reason and deserves to have her privacy respected during a difficult time. When policy compromises medical privacy for abortion, people are subject to unnecessary trauma during the process of accessing needed care, and may be prevented from receiving appropriate care in a timely fashion or at all.

When people say things like, "I think abortion is acceptable if there's a compelling medical necessity, but not for frivolous reasons," in practice it plays out more like, "I demand that women who have had abortions perform their tragedy to my satisfaction." So I think late-term abortion should be legal, and what other people choose for themselves is none of my business.

[Peas n carrots]

I have gone through spates of bad luck, drama etc. I don't think that is uncommon for anyone in their early 20's. Especially considering her background, she has zero support so she is going to struggle a lot more than a lot of other young people.

RR's blog stated that Rachel had ran away early last year...but I'm unclear if Isiah had run away with her at that time (January 24th post).

[hathorlive]

I believe that Rachel ran away before she was 18 and that was why she had to go back, since there were many legalities involved.

I don't think she had anyone with her. She was then promptly "reeducated" back into the cult, which is why RR is hesitant to suggest things

since RR was the one of the primary things Rachel was reeducated about.

I have no troubles believing what is going on. Then again, I had a friend of a friend who left the FLDS, and the stories from that still blow my mind.

Why do my posts totals never increase from 24? I posted up the board and it's a 24 post as well?

[keeperrox]

Why do my posts totals never increase from 24? I posted up the board and it's a 24 post as well?

You have 24 cumulative posts. Your post count changes under your profile on every post, not just with each consecutive post like the old board.

[dawn9476]

Treemom you feel abortion Is acceptable even for a woman who is full term?

A woman, who has an abortion at the end of her term, is most likely having it becuse the pregnany is no longer viable and given birth will put her life in great danger. You are not going to get an healthy woman who is carrying a healthy baby asking for an abortion at eight months.

[PokaDot]

Vyckie apparently doubted Ruth's story and asked PrincessJo to start a thread about it on the old yuku site.

I'm not sure that anyone has had direct contact with Ruth to verify that she is who she says she is. Ruth herself has said she does not want to give that information, in order to protect her privacy and that of her siblings, and accepts that some will doubt her because of it.

I know this is beating a dead horse...around that time but didn't someone hack her blog and post her identity? It was taken down....but yeah. I have no doubt that Ruth is real.

[Kelya]

I know this is beating a dead horse...around that time but didn't someone hack her blog and post her identity? It was taken down....but yeah. I have no doubt that Ruth is real.

yeah, if you had "razing ruth" on google alerts you got her identity.

[luckylibrarian]

I'd like to do something to help Rachel out. Does Ruth have a wishlist or something set up for donations?

[bananacat]

far_go, I was just about to ask if you were familiar with treemom's story. I have a relative and know a friend's wife who lived through similar, and I just wanted to reiterate the point that these aren't tragic yet isolated events that can be disregarded when making policy decisions. The number of real people who choose the risk and inconvenience of sustaining a pregnancy and then undergo an invasive medical procedure for routine birth control is vanishingly small - it's overwhelmingly more likely that a woman seeking a late-term abortion has a compelling reason and deserves to have her privacy respected during a difficult time. When policy compromises medical privacy for abortion, people are subject to unnecessary trauma during the process of accessing needed care, and may be prevented from receiving appropriate care in a timely fashion or at all.

When people say things like, "I think abortion is acceptable if there's a compelling medical necessity, but not for frivolous reasons," in practice it plays out more like, "I demand that women who have had abortions perform their tragedy to my satisfaction." So I think late-term abortion should be legal, and what other people choose for themselves is none of my business.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Guest Anonymous]

I'd like to do something to help Rachel out. Does Ruth have a wishlist or something set up for donations?

Ruth has a paypal donation link on her blog. From her recent post it looks lie people have donated for Rachel via that link and Ruth has transferred the money to her. She is going to buy maternity clothes with it I think.

[Georgiana]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

This! This! So much THIS!! One of the hardest parts about having an abortion was the feeling that I would have to justify my decision to everyone. That THEY were the ones who could decide whether or not MY medical decision was correct.

Then I realized what a load of BS that was. I don't ask society before choosing to take medication. I didn't have to "justify" my tonsillectomy. My medical decisions are mine. I do not have to submit them for approval.

Neither I nor any other woman owe anyone else an explanation or sob story for our medical decisions. And when you think about it, it is rather arrogant and entitled to demand that. Why should YOUR approval matter anyways?

[marmalade]

Georgiana wins the internetz today! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

It's no one's fucking business why anyone decides to have an abortion any more than it is to make the decision to keep a pregnancy, which may not end the way almost every woman fantasizes...myself included. When I was pregnant later in life and could support a child...miscarried twice at the end of the first trimester.

[ollia30]

I have no problem with adoption. (I have adopted children)

But I do have a problem with how quickly everyone has jumped on the adoption bang wagon for Rachel. She could be in a completely different situation in 6 months. Right now things are bad. Her parents are refusing to support her, and she just left her family. It's a highly traumatic time right now. I don't think it is the time to make a permanent life changing decision right in the middle of a million emotions.

I hope if Rachel does want to parent, that she has that choice. That she doesn't feel ashamed and feel like adoption is the only way.

[Peas n carrots]

I have no problem with adoption. (I have adopted children)

But I do have a problem with how quickly everyone has jumped on the adoption bang wagon for Rachel. She could be in a completely different situation in 6 months. Right now things are bad. Her parents are refusing to support her, and she just left her family. It's a highly traumatic time right now. I don't think it is the time to make a permanent life changing decision right in the middle of a million emotions.

I hope if Rachel does want to parent, that she has that choice. That she doesn't feel ashamed and feel like adoption is the only way.

Do you have something against adoption? It's a perfectly valid option. So is keeping the child. As it abortion (if it's early enough in the pregnancy).

There is no law in this country that says you must raise a child you give birth to.

[razingruth]

re: Rachel and adoption

Rachel isn't choosing adoption just because she's poor. There are many reasons why, at this point, she feels that this is best for her and the baby. I held off on sharing her reasons because I wanted to get her permission first. She's granted me that permission.

Rachel loves children and feels that, when the time is right, she will be a good mother. Now is not that "right time", in her mind. She also realizes that she is emotionally unprepared to deal with being a new parent. Please try to understand that she's only recently been allowed to be alone in a room by herself (saving a bathroom). If you've never been in that sort of environment, then you have no idea how scary it is to be on your own. She's dealing with a cetrain amount of paranoia regarding the world and she doesn't think it would be right to raise a child when she's going to need so much therapy just to raise her self. Money is an issue. She understands that money isn't the only thing you need to raise a child, but it sure helps. She's not just a potentially poor single mom- she's a poor, single, emotionally scarred, terrified, undereducated, unemployed/unemployable woman. At this moment, motherhood isn't what she wants and I respect her intuition and feelings.

I realize she could be in a different situation in six months, and she does, too. But the things that could change in six months aren't the things she's most concerned about. The money is the least of her worries (even though it's a huge worry). She's more concerned about being emotionally healthy enough to raise a child. I applaud her because I'm her sister and would support her choice regardless.

re: my being "real"

I don't blame people for their doubts. I realize my life has been chaotic and dramatic. I didn't ask for it. I try not to dwell on it. One of the reasons I stopped blogging regularly (for about a year) was because my life was so full of problems that *I* found it unbelievable enough and I was living it. As I've said before, I understand that my choice to remain anonymous comes with the consequence that there will always be those who question my existence. I would say, however, that I would find it hard to believe anyone would commit to keeping a journal for almost four years for no financial payoff (I've only recently reinstated the tip jar and I don't get money from the amazon ads- I'm not sure why that doesn't work right). I do this for me and for other girls who are trying to break free from patriarchal, religious fundamentalism. The friends I've made and the support I get are worth it to me to put up with the occasional questioner. :)

I do find it strange that, each time, within a week of putting the tip jar back up at the request of the many, a few people start questioning- was I any less real without the tip jar? Now I have a "without pity" blog aimed at me. I didn't realize I was so dangerous to some people.

Have a wonderful day.

[Peas n carrots]

I'm glad to hear that the decision is 100% non-ATI influenced.

Does she plan on staying with your boss for a while, or any plan to move yet? I figure the further from Darth Daddy the better.

[ksuheather]

Ruth it sounds like Rachael has a very sound head on her shoulders. I commented on your blog but I'll say it hear as well. Catholic Services helps with providing counseling on a sliding scale as well as health care and adoption services if needed. THe reason I bring it up is the counseling aspect. Rachael is wise to know she needs it. Good luck to her.

[Deleted03]

Ruth and Rachel,

I hope you will all find your way and that you have support from the new families (friends, siblings out of the compound) you're building.

Ruth, I think most of the people who are questioning your identity are just very skeptic people. Hell most of us could be writing lies, things we don't think just to pass time on this forum. To some extent, the fact that we invest time here, means we have to a certain extent trust on the veracity of the other people on here. Some people don't have that, and personally I just think it's their loss. I would not want to live in a such a permanent state of distrust.

I've always been in favor of you coming out, mainly to put your father in his right place: in dishonor and shame for kicking his daughters out when they are in distress (you being abused by your fiancée, your sister, while pregnant without wanting to be). I understand you make your own choice about your own life and family, and you have so many things to deal with, this is certainly just a detail in the big matter. I don't wish to know who you are, I wish your dad was "flogged" on the public place like he should be for abandoning both of you in a precarious situation while pretending to be a perfect Christian. But that's pretty selfish of me :P

[Georgiana]

Georgiana wins the internetz today! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

It's no one's fucking business why anyone decides to have an abortion any more than it is to make the decision to keep a pregnancy, which may not end the way almost every woman fantasizes...myself included. When I was pregnant later in life and could support a child...miscarried twice at the end of the first trimester.

:blush:

Thanks! I rarely talk about my abortion irl since I'm from a very conservative/fundie-lite Catholic family, and only 4 people actually know about it (my family, who I am very close to, have no idea), so the support is greatly appreciated.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think Ruth's reasons for maintaining anonymity sound perfectly legitimate. I also think it is important that Rachel does what is right for her right now. It is much more important for her to be healthy and happy than for a fundie to be exposed to us. There is no telling what his people will choose to believe, whatever she says. His DNA will always be there, if needed at any future point.

[Witsec5]

Ruth, Truth is stranger than fiction. Someday your life will be relatively drama-free. My life was hard to believe once too. I had to wait for both of my parents to pass away and my younger sister to be sent to prison. One lady at work who was uber-religious thought that God was mad at me because I was always taking off work for something (child custody of sister's kids, Mom's illness, Dad's issues.)

I'm glad you have shared your sister's story. I'm so sorry that she was led on by that jerk and that she is suffering now. Some day she will be a terrific mom and she will be married to a good person who does not think in absolutes. She narrowly escaped a horrible life in patriarchy and so did the baby. I'm going to donate to the cause but if there is any money left over, I wouldn't mind if your sister spent it on something nice for herself (maybe some perfume, makeup, or some earrings.)

[PokaDot]

I find it humorous (in a pathetic way) that "people" are perfectly okay with mommy bloggers and cooking bloggers being "allowed" to make money off of their blogs (ads, paypal, etc), but slam Ruth for it. It's pretty sad and pathetic if you think about it.

Ruth, has it really been that long? Wow....anyways. I've had a blog for about 10 years. There are some years when I blogged every day (sometimes multiple times a day), and there are years that go months without an update. I've never made a dime off of mine (probably because mine is a typical-has-no-point blog), but I understand needing a blog break every now and then. I've never stated my identity on there either. Granted some people know me (in person), but it's never been an issue. And you should see (er....read) some of the crap I've been through since I started blogging! Truth is very much stranger than fiction. Don't believe me? Read following journal entry about someone comparing WW2 to Doctor Who (that totally awesome Sci-Fi show from the BBC for those who don't know): [link=http://squid314.livejournal.com/275614.html]The WW2 miniseries is totally unbelievable and the writers should be fired![/link]

So I guess I say to the doubters: Haters gonna hate. Doubters gonna doubt.

You can't please everyone, *insert the story about the old man, little kid and the donkey*, so it's best to do what is best for you.

[keeperrox]

Now I have a "without pity" blog aimed at me. I didn't realize I was so dangerous to some people.

:shock: I haven't seen this blog, but that's pathetic (on the blogger's part, not your's). The only people you're "dangerous" to are those within ATI.