Razing Ruth's Sister Pregnant out of Wedlock

[Visionoyahweh]

I too wonder about consent.

Will she raise the baby, or go the holy adoption route?

[Lillybee]

Ruth, I recommend that your sister apply for TANF. She is the type of woman that TANF was designed for. When the program works, she will be able to go the school and get some training so that she can support herself and the baby in the future. TANF will also pay for child care for a short time. TANF will also go after child support and will get the necessary child support order in place.

[FearLyss]

It is probably for the best she was kicked out! In my family, when a family member helps care fo another who has had a child without being married, they seem to think they can have a say in how the child is raised. It sickens me.

I hope Ruth and her child have the support they need to LEAVE the insanity that is in her past.

If she chooses adoption, I hope she finds a nice lesbian couple . ;)

[mrs]

Sending prayers to your sister and the baby. I would love to send her something... baby food, diapers?

[SunnyAndrsn]

Ruth...another thought, there is a lot of financial assistance available for single moms looking to further their educations. When the time is right, she may want to look into higher education and talk to a financial counselor at a local university or community college. I would hate that she would dismiss options because of misinformation regarding paying for higher education.

I know that's probably the last thing on her mind right now, but thought I'd mention it anyway.

[emmyfair]

I will also send something for the baby. Happy thoughts for your sister....

[snickerz]

I have an question - when teenage fundies make their purity pledges, do they have any clue what they're talking about? If they have no idea what sex is (until the lego speech on their wedding night), do they even know that they're doing something wrong? How can they avoid doing something wrong if they don't know it's wrong?

[FearLyss]

Great point! I know I asked questions at a young age, I needed answers to make perfect sense, and at 6 years old I kept pryin until we got to "the birds and the bees". I think that is normal for kids, but in those types of families, this is discouraged. Do they really not know what is expecting them their weddding night?? How horrifying it must be for them!

[Renting with Raggles]

And second, please forgive me for asking...

My first thought was 'when the heck did they have time alone?' Not that it takes that long... But in all seriousness, if it's a rare occassion that Rachel and Isaiah see each other, is it at all possible that Psycho Dad molested her? He's a sicko enough control freak that I would not be surprised.

Dear Ruth,

I have to say, after reading your account of your first period and your father's reaction, this was my first thought as well. You mentioned she was a near escapee from the family - would this man resort to 'reparative' rape to reassert his dominance over her? Would your sister attempt to implicate Isaiah, perhaps because she does not have enough science education to understand how a paternity test works, or perhaps even basic reproduction?

To American FJers,

It seems that Ruth's sister is afraid to take Isaiah to court to prove paternity because she is afraid that this boy's family could coerce her into marrying him by making a custody claim on the child. Can such a claim be easily made by a father that denies responsibility in the US? In Australia, it would be very difficult for a man who tried to dodge child support before or after the baby's' birth to do such a thing because of the number of malicious suits that would create. Once a man establishes a reputation as a 'deadbeat' (denying paternity/ refusing to pay child support) the courts would generally not award full custody to the father unless he had conclusive proof that the mother was unfit (and this would have to be extreme - that she was a drug addict or something). I would be really surprised if there wasn't a similar situation in the US. Can any FJers clarify?

[BravaAmica]

Am I the only one who wonders why this doesn't happen more often? The whole system is set up for things like this to happen. A girl is told from the moment she takes her first breath that she's not supposed to think. Haventcha' heard, ya'll? God speaks directly to men so if a man tells you to jump, you say how high! No, you jump first and then ask if it was high enough.

I'm sure Rachel isn't the first girl to come home pregnant from an ATI convention. And I'll bet she's not the first girl Issiah has "courted."

[bananacat]

I'm really saddened that abortion probably won't even be an option for this woman. I'm not saying that she should have an abortion or have the baby, but someone in her situation should really consider all options, but I doubt that she will because of all the propaganda that has been fed to her. Even since she's been kicked out, she still doesn't have control over her own choices.

The father will never, ever get any flack from the community. If paternity is proven, he'll just blame her for tempting him. It's never the man's fault in the Patriarchy. Women have all the responsibility but none of the power.

ETA: I should have read further before posting. It seems like she's too late now for abortion to even be an option. But it is still a shame it never could have been an option for her to consider.

And add me to the list of people who think this was rape.

[Peas n carrots]

I'm really saddened that abortion probably won't even be an option for this woman. I'm not saying that she should have an abortion or have the baby, but someone in her situation should really consider all options, but I doubt that she will because of all the propaganda that has been fed to her. Even since she's been kicked out, she still doesn't have control over her own choices.

The father will never, ever get any flack from the community. If paternity is proven, he'll just blame her for tempting him. It's never the man's fault in the Patriarchy. Women have all the responsibility but none of the power.

So as I understand it, apparently as long as Rachel goes away with the baby, he's still eligible to marry a good ATI girl?

[bananacat]

So as I understand it, apparently as long as Rachel goes away with the baby, he's still eligible to marry a good ATI girl?

I don't think he could marry the very top, prettiest, godliest ATI girls. But fundie girls are really at a disadvantage and he will surely be able to find one that is desperate enough (or has a desperate enough father).

[Visionoyahweh]

ETA: I should have read further before posting. It seems like she's too late now for abortion to even be an option. But it is still a shame it never could have been an option for her to consider.

I had the same thought. I'll just speculate that she wouldn't have even known she was pg until she was showing. A good, unmarried ATI girl wouldn't ever be taking pg tests, right? Not to sound like a jerk, but adoption plus leaving ATI might wind up being best for Rachel.

[GeoBQn]

So let me get this straight--a good Christian father must pledge to guard his daughter's virginity, but if she ends up having sex it's her MOTHER'S fault?

[razingruth]

Sorry- I had to go to class.

Did Rachel ever consider abortion? You know, I really don't know. I just found out about the situation yesterday. She's already so far along that it's not an option now. From what I'm understanding, she wasn't even sure she was pregnant until week 17 (which, I'm not sure I understand how you wouldn't know). She started showing and my mother confronted her about not having had a period. Then all hell broke loose and she and mom hid it from dad until two weeks ago, at which point she left home for good.

Is Rachel in the ATI mindset? At one point, she left, then went back, and now she's out again. I don't know how she's feeling about it now. I think she's in survival mode. Given the conversations we had last year, I would say that she's not going to stay in ATI long, but I don't know what she's been through after returning home. She went to an ATI retreat twice since returning home and those are basically guilt trips and emotional blackmail. Emotionally and mentally, I think she's probably fried. Having been there, I know it takes a while to decide which end is up. My fear for her is she'll be sucked back in to ATI after the baby is born because I guarantee my parents will offer her the same back-handed retreat they offered me. "Be who we want you to be and you can come back."

Would Rachel go to school? I would hope she will someday. She's in a worse position than I was, though. She has had no remediation and she was not interested in academics as a kid. But, I think it's an excellent idea and I will talk to her about it when she's ready.

Thank you for your advice and support. As for a shower, can I think about that and let you guys know later?

[Sprocket]

So let me get this straight--a good Christian father must pledge to guard his daughter's virginity, but if she ends up having sex it's her MOTHER'S fault?

Does Darth Daddy stike you as exceptionally logical?

[kb2]

To American FJers,

It seems that Ruth's sister is afraid to take Isaiah to court to prove paternity because she is afraid that this boy's family could coerce her into marrying him by making a custody claim on the child. Can such a claim be easily made by a father that denies responsibility in the US? In Australia, it would be very difficult for a man who tried to dodge child support before or after the baby's' birth to do such a thing because of the number of malicious suits that would create. Once a man establishes a reputation as a 'deadbeat' (denying paternity/ refusing to pay child support) the courts would generally not award full custody to the father unless he had conclusive proof that the mother was unfit (and this would have to be extreme - that she was a drug addict or something). I would be really surprised if there wasn't a similar situation in the US. Can any FJers clarify?

He couldn't ever prove that there was anything wrong with her parenting, and therefore couldn't get full custody, but he could try for partial custody. He could also threaten to get custody, and not really have much of a legal leg to stand on, but still seem very threatening and manipulate her into doing something she doesn't want to do. Mostly, I think people are worried about having the threat of a custody battle held against her.

I'm sorry to hear that Ruth's sister has gotten so little support from her parents. I hope she's doing OK emotionally.

[bionicmlle]

Perhaps, if the secret is kept, Isaiah might make a good match for Sarah M.

[snickerz]

Well, I suppose this is one way for fundie girls to escape. It might be Sarah's only chance to get out.

[theologygeek]

Surprise, surprise, her father threw her out and the family of the baby's father (another ATI family) are calling her a whore and saying it's not his. .

So much for praising the fact that she didn't get an abortion. I hate fundies.

[Peas n carrots]

I'm just really concerned that as Ruth said, her parents will give her the same backhanded offer as they gave Ruth. Especially at such a vulnerable point, the offer might seem good.

Has she thought out her options yet? Has she thought about adoption? I like to think of it as a last resort option, but at least today birthmothers have a more say over who and what kind of relationship they want to have with the adoptive family and the child. One of my college roommates (Catholic fundie family) had a sister in a similar pickle who had an open adoption. She spent time with the child, and from what I understand the child was aware of her being the birth mom. It's something to think long and hard on...it could be emotionally devestating, or it could be the right solution for her.

[Visionoyahweh]

So much for praising the fact that she didn't get an abortion. I hate fundies.

IKR! No 'blessing' talk now. :x

[boysmom]

I agree, adoption could be something that would work in this situation. I wonder if Daddy wanted her to do that and she refused, hence she left the home/was kicked out.

She might not marry an ATI guy, but there's plenty of nice Christian guys out there who marry women with kids, Christianity is about forgiveness, contrary to what Ruth's dad seems to think. Although he sounds like a typical a**hole man to me, blame everryone else when something goes wrong because it's never, ever YOUR fault. I don't think that has a thing to do with ATI, I know plenty of guys like that.

[theologygeek]

Even if you are unemployed, you still have to pay child support. The court will lower it to a couple hundred dollars a month, but you do indeed have to pay.

If the judge is in a mood, he'll tell the guy to get a job or go to jail. My friend's ex spent a weekend in jail. Child support is the law. Ruth's sister needs a child support advocate when the baby is born. They are paid by the state and are free. They will help her. I would also apply for section 8 housing, food stamps, and welfare. Welfare loves to go after the father of the baby. I would stick it to his family good after she was called a whore by them.