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Razing Ruth's Sister Pregnant out of Wedlock


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He couldn't ever prove that there was anything wrong with her parenting, and therefore couldn't get full custody, but he could try for partial custody. He could also threaten to get custody, and not really have much of a legal leg to stand on, but still seem very threatening and manipulate her into doing something she doesn't want to do. Mostly, I think people are worried about having the threat of a custody battle held against her.

I'm sorry to hear that Ruth's sister has gotten so little support from her parents. I hope she's doing OK emotionally.

Someone with legal knowledge might make a very simple list/ page for Ruth's sister, outlining what Isaiah might threaten to do, what her response should be in each case and how the court system is likely to work in the situation. I didn't think a family court anywhere in the Western world would give the time of day to what would obviously be a malicious suit for custody; however, Rachel, having grown up in a patriarchal culture needs someone with authority to show her that despite what she may have been told, mainstream society does not work that way.

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IKR! No 'blessing' talk now. :x

They are a bunch of fucking hypocrites when it comes down to it. (Looking at you too, Chris Jeub). As others have said, I'm sure this happens far more often than we see. The 20/20-Nightline expose on the IFB scandal is just the tip of publicizing this particular iceberg.

Men, step up and be...MEN! Of course, I betcha these scumbags are the ones praising "Courageous" to the skies. (Saw it; total schlock, but not quite as woodenly fake as Fireproof, but wooden enough).

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Ruth, I feel your sister should be documenting how awful the father and his family are acting. It could help her a lot if they turn around when paternity is proven and try to take custody from her.

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First, Ruth, please encourage your sister to get every dime of assistance she can. I did the single mom too proud take assistance thing, and it nearly drove me into the hospital even with tons of family support. Her situation is the one that these programs were made for! I currently get assistance for food and medical, and it improves my children's lives immensely. She should be getting cash aid, a housing subsidy, food stamps, WIC, Medicaid, and an energy subsidy (there is a waiting list for that one in my state, but that is not always the case). This is just off the top of my head. She is going to be very helpless after the baby is born, so she needs to get on the programs now--don't even plan to work for a while. I second the recommendation for college, but only when she has settled in to whatever her new normal is.

As for the man suing for custody--he will probably try. Can she communicate with him and his family in email so there is a record, and save them all? She needs to document that he is denying ever having sex with her and that he makes her communicate through his family, as well as any other douchebag moves. That way, if he takes her to court she can show the truth of the situation. There are other fundie dads that manage to get custody ;while I don't think it will happen in this case, it nonetheless worries me.

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If it isn't to personal to ask how old is your sister, Ruth? You don't have to answer or you can give a ball park figure like under 21 but still an adult or over 21 or young teen as that might help us understand better. Again, you don't have to answer.

Also, I think everyone here would understand about holding off on any shower ideas until your sister knows what she plans to do with her baby and their future.

Many prayers and good wishes to you and yours.

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Cash aid will also provide job training, for something like a CNA and provide some limited child care funds.

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If I was her, I would strongly consider adoption. It is going to be hard enough to become part of the mainstream on her own. I couldn't imagine doing it with a child.

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In most counties in Arkansas, the Arkansas Single Parent Scholarship Fund hasn't been able to give out their full number of scholarships.

Also, I would advise Ruth's sister to talk to battered women's shelters. That is what Rachel is - though her abuser is her father and not her husband. They can offer legal referrals, counseling, parenting classes... lots of things she will need.

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I agree that documenting the fathers and his parents CURRENT reaction is very important, especially if they have money. I have worked with more than one single mother who lost primary custody of her children simply because she was precariously housed and poor and the father had financial resources to fight.

Getting on housing lists and finding other resources ASAP is really important because many programs have long waits. For example in my area the wait for a typical subsidized apartment is about 3 years, and the Section 8 list is closed... so getting on any and every possible resource list is very important.

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Ruth, may I suggest not saying who your sister is staying with? Something like saying she's staying with good people. If your family is so inclined to track her down, it wouldn't be that hard. :-\ I'm hoping they just decide to give up, personally. I don't see anything good coming out of her going back.

Edit: it's almost 2 am and I think I wasn't making sense. Like if she was staying with the neighbours, just saying oh she's in good hands or something like that.

I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally hope they don't go looking for her. *fingers crossed*

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What a terrible situation and so much for being pro-life.

Sending your sister and the baby my best thoughts. I hope that she gets a lot of help and will accept it so she can build a good life for herself and the little one.

As for people here saying she should give the baby up for adoption... how very coldhearted of you. It's not a stray kitten we're talking about here.

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Wow, this is quite a scandal in fundy land, isn't it? I know FJrs may wonder where Rachel & Isaiah would find the time to sneak away to have sex, but where there's a will there's a way. I can recall one time on a mission trip, one of the girls snuck out of the dorm to have sex with a local boy ( a minster's son!) in the middle of the night.

I also knew a super religious girl, at a the time was a virgin. She was staying with another religious family overnight. She snuck out of bed, went into the living room and jumped on top of "Roy" who was sleeping on the couch. Roy was back from Afghanistan and was visiting his family. She jumped on top of him, woke him up and asked to have sex right there on the couch. Even worse? She used the "I'm a virgin" line on him. He firmly said, "No way." His parents were asleep in the next room and could wake up at any time.

My point is that even though it may seem out of the question to have sex on these chaperoned trips, it does happen. Especially when dealing with repressed sexuality and hormones.

I really wish Ruth's sister the best. I hope that she gets the support she needs and that she has all the resources available to her.

As for people here saying she should give the baby up for adoption... how very coldhearted of you. It's not a stray kitten we're talking about here.

Why? It's a valid option. Pregnancy, adoption, abortion... these are not easy decisions to make. No one is forcing her to give up her child for adoption. It was merely a suggestion. Why are you so against it?

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As for people here saying she should give the baby up for adoption... how very coldhearted of you. It's not a stray kitten we're talking about here.

I think it's an option, but a last resort option and one that would have to be very much thought out. She's young, and she's had very little experience in mainstream society. As you saw in Ruth's journey, just that part has been difficult and emotion filled itself. Having to do that with a child...that's a tall order, especially with no family support from the father or your own family. But it's a tall order too to give up a child for adoption as well.

Rachel needs to do what is best for herself, and she will figure it out. By no way I'm advocating that is what she should do, but only an option to go over. If it's under consideration she should not even walk through the door of an adoption agency unless she is 110% sure this is the right option (I worry that some agencies use coercion tactics with young mothers). It's a heart wrenching decision, but in a few cases it is what is best for both the mother and the baby.

I never once thought of it as a "stray kitten," but as a girl who grew up in a world where choice was extremely limited, it may not have been an option that was gone over. She has a choice to do what is right for herself and her baby, whatever it may be.

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Why? It's a valid option. Pregnancy, adoption, abortion... these are not easy decisions to make. No one is forcing her to give up her child for adoption. It was merely a suggestion. Why are you so against it?

The physical safety of Rachel and the child are at risk. The decision in this case hangs on what course of action will put as much distance between Darth Daddy and daughter/ grandchild as possible. Seriously, from the comments he left on Ruth's blog I would think him capable of honour killing.

If you post here again Ruth, have you shown your father's messages to a qualified pyschiatrist? The poorly worded threats/ responses would strengthen the argument that your sister cannot return to his care. They are so incoherent that unless English is his second language they might be proof of symptoms of mental illness.

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Although, it's pretty taboo for any QF/ATI dad to have kids from pre-marital sex so they may just want her to go away and leave the guy free to marry someone else.

I think it's still taboo in quite a few settings, not just ATI. But I think it's crazy that they just want Rachel to go away so the guy isn't "tarnished"....like others hav said, so much for "pro-life".

When one of my best friends got pregnant out of wedlock, the guy first admitted it was his, then his crazy religious family insisted he didn't, so he said it wasn't. Finally they went to court, had a DNA test and they finally admitted it was his and paid child support.

She might not marry an ATI guy, but there's plenty of nice Christian guys out there who marry women with kids

Um...there are a plenty of nice guys who marry women with kids. They don't have to be Christian (because as Darth Daddy shows, being a Christian doesn't automatically make you a good person).

As for people here saying she should give the baby up for adoption... how very coldhearted of you. It's not a stray kitten we're talking about here.

How the hell is giving a baby up for adoption cold hearted? If one cannot give a child a "proper" (whatever you want to define it as) care, it's perfectly valid. There are tons of people out there who would be heads over heels happy to adopt any child. Saying someone MUST raise a child just because they gave birth to them is more cold hearted than knowing it's better to give the kid to someone else. That's why so many states have safe haven laws. It's just another option.

In fact, when my brother and his (then) girlfriend had a kid, they seriously considered adoption, because they didn't have (and still don't) the emotional and financial resources to properly care for the kid. Baby momma changed her mind, and decided to keep the baby in month 8...but that's a different story.

Ruth, if Rachel decides she wants to raise the baby herself, and it's cool with her to do an online baby shower. You could always set up a "fake" name registry, and have the mailing address be somewhere neutral...a PO Box near your brother...something like that, that won't give away your name or location.

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Once they had sex, it appears that he felt Rachel wasn't "convicted" about the same things as him and broke off the communication with her.

Wow. Just wow. I guess she held him down and forced him. He should have screamed louder. (sarcasm here)

Sounds like she was fortunate to escape this loser.

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How the hell is giving a baby up for adoption cold hearted? If one cannot give a child a "proper" (whatever you want to define it as) care, it's perfectly valid. There are tons of people out there who would be heads over heels happy to adopt any child. Saying someone MUST raise a child just because they gave birth to them is more cold hearted than knowing it's better to give the kid to someone else. That's why so many states have safe haven laws. It's just another option.

In fact, when my brother and his (then) girlfriend had a kid, they seriously considered adoption, because they didn't have (and still don't) the emotional and financial resources to properly care for the kid. Baby momma changed her mind, and decided to keep the baby in month 8...but that's a different story.

I don't think it's coldhearted to give up a baby for adoption - even though I think it's a complete disgrace that this is a common alternative because of poverty or lack of childcare in a modern country that is one of the richest in the world - but I think it's coldhearted to suggest it to somebody else.

I think giving up a baby is something that gives a hole in the heart for the rest of the life and I would not suggest it to anybody. If that ultimately is their choice, I respect that, but I wouldn't "advice" anybody to do it.

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With all love, I totally endorse adoption as a very loving option if Rachel wants to choose it.

It's precisely because the baby *is* not a kitten that it may well be in the baby's best interest to be given to an empty-armed couple (or single) who have the resources and unconditional love to give. The right adopters will welcome Rachel's desire to be in contact w the child as they can agree between themselves.

A woman's right to choose should include the choice of loving adoption.

No personal rebukes intended here! I love you all. Adoption is a very important thing to me for reasons I'll go into some other time.

<3

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Question for Ruth:

Being that your family is high up in the ranks of ATI/Quiverfull, what do you think will happen to their reputation now that two children have left and one is having a baby out of wedlock?

The reason that I ask is that, from what I've read, your father seems like he has the potential to be violent. I really do fear for the children left in the home. (Not so much your mother - sorry - because she's an adult and no matter how bleak her options look, she still has options. The kids, not so much.) Is he likely to take out his anger on them, given this developing situation?

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My prayers for Rachel, if she wants them.

A few things to pass on about baby-having out here in the Real World:

It's expensive. I mean, just having the baby can cost A LOT of money. Giving birth in a clean, quiet out-of-hospital location without a lot of confounded relatives or other nosy parkers sticking their noses into the room is a lot cheaper, and for low-risk pregnancies less likely to cause complications in mother or baby, provided that there is an accredited midwife present. (Note that the midwifery model of care defines more mother-fetus pairs as low risk than the hospital model.) If no midwife can be found, Rachel should keep in mind that she is free to refuse the procedures that will be recommended at the hospital, no matter who is telling her she should have them or what they say to her. This should reduce cost and also the possibility of iatrogenic complications. A doula or other advocate is strongly recommended because she will be very busy and distracted by the birth process. (Capsule explanation: Some hospital procedures are very helpful to a small set of mothers who encounter a specific issue during labor. However, hospital procedure is generally to apply these procedures to all mothers, "just in case." However however, applying these procedures to mothers who aren't having problems tends to cause problems and also increases the cost of birth. Here endeth your daily sermonette.)

Ultrasounds aren't always right about the sex of the baby. I suggest a plain unisex layette: green, yellow, white. I'll be happy to send something if your sister would like a virtual baby shower.

I don't know what ATI teaches girls about birth. There is a lot of common-sense advice in the works of Ina May Gaskin no matter what background a pregnant woman comes from.

I do know what ATI teaches girls about bringing up babies and children and it's a load of poisonous nonsense--I know, preaching to the choir here! Please look up the works of Dr. William Sears for a good starting point with babies. Rachel is welcome to visit the Gentle Christian Mothers forum and join us if she likes what she sees.

Rachel is absolutely entitled to any and all public aid that is available to people in her situation! She is free to tell anybody who preaches the gospel of bootstraps to jump off the pier.

I'm sure Isaiah's family would like her to slink off into obscurity or give them the baby and then slink off into obscurity. But out here in the big pond, what ATI bigwigs want matters not.at.all. Isaiah has a duty of support. He does not have any rights over her or her baby.

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I'll try to answer as many questions as I can before I have to go to class.

This one is really important: I've received at least five e-mails from people trying to guess who the family is. I hope everyone understands that I can't, and likely wouldn't, out the family---even if they're acting horrible. It's not that I don't want to! I do! Nothing would make me feel better, at this moment, than blasting this douchebag man-child to the ceiling and calling fraud on his family's "ministry". I've even held them up as examples of a good family before and now it pisses me off. But, I won't confirm or deny, aside from saying it's not the Duggars, because I don't want to be sued! And, I want my sister to make the decision on how much info is shared. She's scared right now. Aside from knowing that the family is QF, sort of into ATI but not ATI-royalty or pilot family, it doesn't matter. They're man-child is a joke for doing this to my sister.

Adoption- she's thought about it and seems to still be thinking about it. That's one reason why I'm hesitant to accept baby things for her. She would make an outstanding mother and part of me hopes she'll be able to keep the baby because she would have a hard time giving it up for adoption (I just know that about her). I want her to do what is right for her and her baby. If that's adoption, I support her. If it's keeping the baby, I support her.

She's my little sister and my heart breaks for her right now.

What is going to happen to your family/ATI consequences? - I'm tempted to say "don't know and don't care". I'm sure my father is in full damage control and spin mode. But, even sadder, I'm sure that after two of us leaving- no one at ATI truly cares how my father is spinning. They'll just ask him to take time to deal with his family and pray. :pray:

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MamaJ said it more kindly than I would have, but still the same message: The baby is a fact, and isn't going away, and for a 17 year old raised on ATI, she has been brainwashed to believe she has committed the ultimate sin. Adoption may be the best choice for her AND the child, especially as we know how dreadful Darth Daddy is.

I have adopted kittens and a child: =\=

Ruth, I am sending you and Rachel love.

Edited after reading Ruth's post: being pro-choice, I will applaud whatever decision she makes--her child, her choice.

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Does anyone know how the adoption would probably happen in this situation? I'm imagining the baby going to an ATI family that's just as bad as Ruth's family. I know Gothard doesn't like adoption, but is that the preferred choice for ATI girls who get pregnant out of wedlock?

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"Rachel" could pick an adoptive family and I am sure would be wise in doing so.

I am sorry for speculating about the father, Ruth. I did not consider the problems it could cause for you and your sister.

If she knows what she is having and decides to keep it, I can send some hand-me-downs for a boy. Let us know, I think a lot of us here want to help out in some way.

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