Tomorrow (1/19) is Sarah's 30th b-day.

[sriracha]

Please, please cut off all contact with him and stay out. There are many of us here eager to give you moral support--me among them.

Yeah I have to second this. It's NOT worth it. It's better to be alone than with ANY amount of abuse. You may love him but love is not enough.

[formergothardite]

I'm not sure she is totally sane. I'm not sure how one could be after being raised the way she has.

[virginmojito]

I'm not sure she is totally sane. I'm not sure how one could be after being raised the way she has.

RRuth seems incredibly, very sane to me. Very sane and reasonable. Was she treated better by that bastard dad of hers? Nnnope...

[Austin]

Our own Angri-la made her escape. It sure wasn't easy.

[tabitha2]

Also,I want to add females have been saving themselves and their families from indescribable horrors or just society in general for thousands of years,With less money,education or outside resources than most of these fundie women.You just have to have something or the seed of something that makes you fucking mad enough to fight the hand your dealt.

[fundiemomnot]

With regard to Sarah getting out, remember she watches NO tv, has no access to newspapers, doesn't know anyone outside of her cult and has no way to earn money. She is probably unaware that there are shelters for abused women or that she could ask a policeman for help.

I think we also need to remember that deprograming help is usually initiated by the parents. The people who do deprogram cult members aren't cruising around looking for victims.

Any feeling that her lifestyle is wrong will be translated, by her, into not being prayerful enough, being a complainer (and she will be fully aware of how those in the bible who "murmer" are treated), not being submissive etc.

There is no way she'll ever escape this cult.

[kpmom]

Sigh. Very sad. I'm picturing Joseph making her a similar card in 20 years, while she lives with his family, being nursemaid to his 1,000 kids.

Apparently God just doesn't want her married. End of story.

[Deleted03]

It may be stark and seem cruel, but only Sarah can get Sarah out of this. She is an adult and she is choosing to stay. Sure, emotional and spiritual abuse have limited her abilities to think clearly about the issue, and has disadvantaged her mightily. But the fact remains that only she can leave. No one can save her, just as no one can save any adult person in any type of abusive situation. They must save themselves, or at least take first steps towards freedom. Who else can possibly do it for them?

although this is true, it would help if she had access to individuals outside of her family in something else than fellowshiping with couples or trying to sell family products to them.

Then maybe some spark could happen. You know being 30, having no college education, no idea how the world works, it must be pretty scary to leave now.

[tabitha2]

And if she did,what exactly could she tell the policeman? She is not being tortured,starved,raped...Steve and Terrie aren't doing anything illegal under law.It would result in nothing but trouble for her but sure not help.

[virginmojito]

They could do what they did at home: run households. They would be sheltered, paid, fed, etc. They are incredible help to any family, and they would be appreciated, unlike at home where they are taken for granted. I would very much like the idea of having a former fundy girl living in my household, if I was in tht situation. They know how to take care of kiddies and babies, and they can run the household. Ideal help. Many people are desperate to find good help and they cannot! At most places people pay a lot of money for help like that. And, the live-in maids are treated like family, not like doormats, slaves or less preferred gender virgins who have to earn each bowl of ramen noodle they consume.

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree that people can only escape abusive situations if they choose to do so, and I know some incredible women who have done just that. But their circumstances varied and some were more complex than others. None of them needed encouragement to "imagine!!11!" leaving behind rape, violence or being stranded in pajamas. All that and more goes on in many lives, every day. But just because one woman escaped one situation at point X in time doesn't mean that woman Y can have the same experience or fell able to move in the same direction, at the same speed. In fact, agencies supporting people in abused situations often emphasise the need to have a plan and build resources where appropriate.

I like to hope that Sarah has Aunt Tami on her side, if she does feel able to pack her bags and walk out one day. That birthday message that said "I really do love you" probably carried a lot more meaning than could be put into words that would safely get past the Steve filter. I just hope Sarah will get a wake up call soon, while she still has relative youth on her side.

[Austin]

although this is true, it would help if she had access to individuals outside of her family in something else than fellowshiping with couples or trying to sell family products to them.

Then maybe some spark could happen. You know being 30, having no college education, no idea how the world works, it must be pretty scary to leave now.

I don't disagree at all. I wish she would have more access to other people, but if wishes were horses then beggars would ride. Lots of things would help her, but she will have to make her own way to them. I share your hope that something will ignite a spark in her and she will take responsibility for her own life. Maybe watching her life fall away like sand through an hourglass will cause her to begin to question. Probably not, though.

While I know that her father is a controlling, emotionally abusive asshole, I do not believe she is so sheltered that she knows nothing about life whatsoever and has absolutely no idea that not everybody lives as she does. It's not like she's locked in room somewhere. I'm sure she is cowed by her father, and I don't blame her. But she'll either stand up to him or she won't, and she probably won't, as she just doesn't seem to have even a bit of the type of backbone that would take. Sadly, she won't be the first daughter to never find her own voice and waste her life in service to her parents and their crazy ideas.

[snickerz]

Honestly, I think her only hope is for Steve to drop dead. Until then, she's not going anywhere.

[lovefromgirl]

It is not my responsibility to save the world : ) But since I know many people with serious damages done to them, I have difficulties finding excuses for totally sane, healthy adults.

That is one heck of an assumption, there. You honestly think the Maxwells would reveal the nitty-gritty of a daughter's disability to the world? And I'm not even sure mental illness registers beyond "sin".

[liltwinstar]

although this is true, it would help if she had access to individuals outside of her family in something else than fellowshiping with couples or trying to sell family products to them.

Then maybe some spark could happen. You know being 30, having no college education, no idea how the world works, it must be pretty scary to leave now.

Seems to me the first thing (and probably the hardest thing) she would have to do is either: 1. reject Christianity outright or 2. embrace a Christianity that is different from what her parents have taught her. She's been taught her whole life that her job is to follow God by obeying her dad (parents). So, before she could do anything like find a job, move out, etc, she would really have to re-examine her beliefs and sort out which come from the Bible/Christianity and which come from her parents', um, very narrow interpretations (that is, if she still believed in Jesus/God).

After that, the rest would be easy by comparison - not that job hunting is a piece of cake, of course, but it is easier than thinking you're going to go to hell because as a 30 year old woman, you don't want to obey daddy's whims any more.

[xDreamerx]

I love how the "Birthday Message" to her says nothing of her character, personality or otherwise unique qualities. It merely lists the chores she does for the family. It might as well say, "Thanks for being our servant!". It must be depressing for her to be thirty and unmarried. I would consider that fine myself, but I have a proper education and skills way beyond hers. She really has nothing.

However, it did list all the book writing and office work she's done. I would assume she could at least get a secretarial job with skills like that? It wouldn't be much but it would give her some money. I hope she leaves. That's really the only way she'll ever achieve anything. Her family has stunted her beyond belief.

[virginmojito]

being stranded in pajamas.

The stranded in jammies folks are a brother and a sister that I know, aged 30 and 27. They are both married now. Happily, and their story is a miracle. Everytime I pity myself for something, I think of them. The brother has kids, the girl cannot, due to illnesses thanks to her being stranded in the cold so many times. They are both happy now. The mother died of cancer a long time ago. I don't understand your hostility and your comment about me knowing 'everything', it was uncalled for. I certainly look up at folks like this like they were heroes, because they ARE. And as soon as you start helping yourself, others will realize that you are moving towards something, and they will come to support you. But as long as you remain in one place, even more, trying to fool yourself and others, nothing will change.

[fundiefan]

It may be stark and seem cruel, but only Sarah can get Sarah out of this. She is an adult and she is choosing to stay. Sure, emotional and spiritual abuse have limited her abilities to think clearly about the issue, and has disadvantaged her mightily. But the fact remains that only she can leave. No one can save her, just as no one can save any adult person in any type of abusive situation. They must save themselves, or at least take first steps towards freedom. Who else can possibly do it for them?

I don't think it is cruel to say that at all. It's the truth. Sarah is the only person who can change her life and its course. No one else, not even her father. She can choose to remain under her father's control and live as he dictates, or she can leave. Yes, there are a million caveats to all of that - she has to realize her choices, she has to want something different, she has to break out of her father's hold - but none of that changes the fact that she can't just be removed from that house and be considered free. She has to want it, she has to do it. Unless and/or until she does, this is her life. Whether she knows the world outside her dad's control won't chew her up and spit her out or not; whether she believes the world is fallen and a dangerous, threatening, hostile place or not. Until she uses her own mind to make her own decisions and get the ball rolling, she is with daddy until he...er, god...sends her a man to marry, which is also not any kind of answer but most likely the only thing she knows to 'dream' about for her future, or at the very least the only thing she allows herself to dream about for her future.

I still feel badly for her and I still think she is being mentally and spiritually controlled and even abused, but that doesn't change the fact that she is the only one who can change any aspect of her life and her father's control over it.

[anniebgood]

To Sarah,

Sarah, never doubt the Lord’s goodness and mercy. A husband may be around the corner waiting.

As with the man stranded on the roof in a flood, you have to see God’s signs. Being cloistered in your home and not having the opportunity to meet a Godly man is not a sign from God. It’s a sign that you need to get out and mingle. Go to a church that has a young singles program.

To meet someone you need friends and it seems like you never are allowed to go and visit people on your own. You are 30 years old. I was single at 30, and met my husband 2 years later. We’ve been together 27 years.

The business will go one. You might find a trip with a sister just to go and unwind makes a wonderful opportunity to gather material for a new book. If your father is against that, I wonder if he truly has your life in thrall?

Blessing for a year that you find yourself and find your love.

This post will never see the light of day as a comment. Daddy won't allow it. It questions his authority.

I wonder if I mailed it in a birthday card, if Steve would allow her to read her own mail, or censor it.

[Creaky Mom]

...I like to hope that Sarah has Aunt Tami on her side, if she does feel able to pack her bags and walk out one day. That birthday message that said "I really do love you" probably carried a lot more meaning than could be put into words that would safely get past the Steve filter. I just hope Sarah will get a wake up call soon, while she still has relative youth on her side.

I got from that message the same feeling, there is something underlying there. People close in likely see what is happening and maybe mentioned it to her or the parents. Otherwise it seemed an awkward/odd way of putting it. But then maybe she suffers the same language afflictions as the Maxwells.

[booksnbeats]

I don't think it is cruel to say that at all. It's the truth. Sarah is the only person who can change her life and its course. No one else, not even her father. She can choose to remain under her father's control and live as he dictates, or she can leave. Yes, there are a million caveats to all of that - she has to realize her choices, she has to want something different, she has to break out of her father's hold - but none of that changes the fact that she can't just be removed from that house and be considered free. She has to want it, she has to do it. Unless and/or until she does, this is her life. Whether she knows the world outside her dad's control won't chew her up and spit her out or not; whether she believes the world is fallen and a dangerous, threatening, hostile place or not. Until she uses her own mind to make her own decisions and get the ball rolling, she is with daddy until he...er, god...sends her a man to marry, which is also not any kind of answer but most likely the only thing she knows to 'dream' about for her future, or at the very least the only thing she allows herself to dream about for her future.

I still feel badly for her and I still think she is being mentally and spiritually controlled and even abused, but that doesn't change the fact that she is the only one who can change any aspect of her life and her father's control over it.

Right. She's fully an adult. I would love to know what kinds of arguments and attempted "rebellions" have gone on in that family...I definitely don't buy that the kids are 100% silent on this issue.

[Guest Anonymous]

I got from that message the same feeling, there is something underlying there. People close in likely see what is happening and maybe mentioned it to her or the parents. Otherwise it seemed an awkward/odd way of putting it. But then maybe she suffers the same language afflictions as the Maxwells.

They visit Aunt Tami and Uncle Whoever about once a year. I think Steve would have to bump off Grandpa and Gigi before he could alienate Teri's sister, so that is one potential safe place for the 'children' should any of them ever leave.

Right. She's fully an adult. I would love to know what kinds of arguments and attempted "rebellions" have gone on in that family...I definitely don't buy that the kids are 100% silent on this issue.

Ha - while I would buy Sarah's escape memoir out of curiosity, it is John's book that I would most like to read. He had his rebellion literally beaten out of him. Steve got to the point that he hated being at the dinner table with John because even the rebellious way John ate drove him to rage.... Given that the boys have relative freedom to pursue careers, I wouldn't be surprised if John were to find a Maxwell-free internet provider one day, google his family name and find FJ.

[flojo]

.

Wow, you know everything! You should run the world and then no one would be oppressed anymore! Imagine!!111!!

Agreed. It is dangerous to oversimplify the dynamics of abuse, and then blame the victim for not leaving.

Edited to better say what I wanted

[treemom]

Agreed. There are few things that anger me more than people who oversimplify the dynamics of abuse, and then blame the victim for not leaving.

I am not sure most of us are blaming the victim but merely responding to the idea that Sarah is more sheltered than the average victim and won't be able to escape without her doing it herself to a great degree.

She isn't a Duggar. She isn't a Botkin. She isn't a lot of people. She will literally have to be a Razing Ruth and walk away to a stranger's home.

[booksnbeats]

Ha - while I would buy Sarah's escape memoir out of curiosity, it is John's book that I would most like to read. He had his rebellion literally beaten out of him. Steve got to the point that he hated being at the dinner table with John because even the rebellious way John ate drove him to rage.... Given that the boys have relative freedom to pursue careers, I wouldn't be surprised if John were to find a Maxwell-free internet provider one day, google his family name and find FJ.

Wow, do you have more details/links about this? I really don't know much about their actual child-raising "techniques," now that the kids are pretty much all grown up.