Tomorrow (1/19) is Sarah's 30th b-day.

[Jezebel]

With regard to Sarah getting out, remember she watches NO tv, has no access to newspapers, doesn't know anyone outside of her cult and has no way to earn money. She is probably unaware that there are shelters for abused women or that she could ask a policeman for help.

And even if she does know there are shelters for abused women, she may have been indoctrinated to believe that these places are evil. I've heard fundies say that there would be no need for women's shelters if men and women simply followed God's plan for their lives and had more faith. I've heard even non-fundies decry women's shelters as one of those evils brought by feminism, encouraging women to claim abuse, or exaggerate it. So if she knows about women's shelters, it may be as places full of fallen, ungodly women who disobeyed their husbands.

On top of that, she'd have to see that the life her parents have imposed on her is abusive in the first place, which would be very, very hard to do. For all of Steve and Terri's failings, they don't strike me as brutal people--they aren't beating their adult kids, or withholding food, or locking them in closets, or any of the other things that are obviously abusive. Instead of physical intimidation they keep their kids down through endless Bible studies, in which Steve tells them what it all means. And as emotionally stunted and socially tone-deaf as Steve comes across online, I don't doubt that these people love each other, and that love is communicated to each other in small ways on a day-to-day basis.

They also each have important roles within the family business, where each kid is making a valuable cotribution to the entire family's well-being, and having known other people who grew up with that kind of experience, most say it was really fulfilling and gave them a sense of competency and self-worth, even when their parents were jerks. But it would be hard to up and leave that behind without warning because it would severely disrupt the lives of everyone in the household, including innocent siblings.

And this is in families who are not tiny, isolated, Daddy-centric cults, where the kids that leave know their other options, are at home in the broader culture, and have friends and other family they can count on for love, support and encouragement. A woman like Sarah Maxwell has none of that. There is nobody and nothing waiting for her on the outside. RazingRuth at least had a brother who had put some distance between himself and his parents; Sarah has no one.

I'm typing this on my phone while waiting for an oil change, so I'm probably not conveying this as well as I'd like. But while most of us here see the Maxwell family cult as terribly, soul-crushingly, tragically abusive, the likelihood of Sarah (or any of the Maxwell kids) understanding why is depressingly small. For Ruth, it took a pivotal event in which the stakes were made clear--forced engagement to a selfish and arrogant stranger--to make her break. I don't know if Sarah or her siblings will ever have a similar spotlight moment, in which the reality of their situations and the need to save themselves at any cost becomes clear.

Okay, car's done. Back later...

[survivor]

Agreed. It is dangerous to oversimplify the dynamics of abuse, and then blame the victim for not leaving.

Edited to better say what I wanted

^ This. And it feels shitty to hear. And it is exactly the type of thinking that keeps women trapped in cycles of abuse. Maybe she can't leave unless she makes the decision to, but that decision is harder than you can ever imagine.

And you can tell yourself that you know people who had it worse and even that you know what kind of abuse hurts the worst, but you do not know. You are not all-knowing.

Yes, she has to walk out the door, but for fuck's sake, it is the hardest thing she will ever do and she may never have the strength to do it- but that doesn't mean she wants or deserves it.

I'm sorry that I'm taking this so personally, but I have been through hell with my ex. And I don't know if it will ever be over. If I wasn't protecting my kids from a monster, I'd just let him have me and kill me. It's so much easier. So yeah, I take her side.

eta: And the spiritual abuse was what kept me there allowing myself and my children to be abused. I was told that God would protect my children from the consequences of the abuse if I would just submit. One of my kids tried to commit suicide after we left because he/she will never be rid of what was done to him/her.

[Guest Anonymous]

Wow, do you have more details/links about this? I really don't know much about their actual child-raising "techniques," now that the kids are pretty much all grown up.

If you do a search, we have discussed the Maxwell's many times. Or use the wayback machine to search the Titus2 blog and 'corners' archives.

But briefly, John is the boy that both Teri and Steve wrote about as the difficult one in the family. And at John's High School graduation (read: family supper with extra prayer) John thanked her and gave her a special gift for turning him around. Steve writes about his anger quite often in the Dad's Corners, though he writes about it as though it is a normal thing and rather than examining the root of his anger, he analyses and works to change the behaviour of the person who "makes" him angry. On one occasion he wrote about how he controlled his rage and his snapping at the children at mealtimes by implementing a system where he would hold up one finger at a child for each infraction of the rules, which might include, eg, chewing with their mouths open. He said it was effective because if they reached three fingers they would be dismissed from the table and miss the meal, and would also get 'consequences that they wanted to avoid. He and Teri were then Pearl followers, so consequences were undoubtedly corporal punishment. On a separate occasion John and another brother picked a silly argument with Anna and she tattled on them, so as a punishment the boys were made to sit in the van and eat dry crackers for lunch, while the rest of the family ate in a Taco Bell restaurant.

[Guest Anonymous]

Survivor - I'm sorry I cross-posted with something rather crass in comparison to what you are saying. I am sorry that you are having such an uphill battle. Your story is not yet over and I hope you are soon able to find the strength and resources you need to make the break and live the life you and your children deserve. Peace and strength to you. x

[survivor]

And as horrible as things were for me and my kids, I never even thought of it as abuse because I was only surrounded by other fundies. It was only when I developed a relationship with someone outside of my group that I had my first hint that things were not ok. Only one person ever told me that it was not okay for him to do what he did to us. Once I left, people came out of the woodwork to tell me how they wished I had left years ago and had feared for my life.

Where is Sarah going to get this one person to help her question her world view?

anniec- thank you!

[mrs]

Ok this may be inappropiate but I'm sure people on FJ know of single "likeminded (but not to the same degree as her father)" young men from similar backgrounds, and views of courting. Couldn't we forward her link to their family's blog? For example:

Dear "Quiverfull C/P Mom who runs family blog",

What a beautiful family you have! I have just read stumbled over to your blog for the 1st time. Its wonderful to read about your many blessings from God... Have your daughters read Sarahs blog, she is around the same age as your son ___? She is truely an inspiriation...ect ect

[Triplet3]

May I just say that this thread warms my heart, not because I'm glad that Sarah is in her dreadful situation (quite the opposite!), but because of the huge levels of compassion and support being shown by FJ-ers? Free Jinger really is a wonderful place. See, fundie lurkers, we're not actually all hateful, mean hags who like nothing better to persecute people!

Free Sarah!

[Triplet3]

Oops, just realised my post sounded patronising. I didn't mean it to.

[Austin]

I'm sorry that I'm taking this so personally, but I have been through hell with my ex. And I don't know if it will ever be over. If I wasn't protecting my kids from a monster, I'd just let him have me and kill me. It's so much easier. So yeah, I take her side.

eta: And the spiritual abuse was what kept me there allowing myself and my children to be abused. I was told that God would protect my children from the consequences of the abuse if I would just submit. One of my kids tried to commit suicide after we left because he/she will never be rid of what was done to him/her.

You are personalizing this, and I understand, but you need some help. I hope you get it. And yes, you can come back at me and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about (which you don't know, either), but I'm just reacting based just on what you've written here. It's alarming that you don't believe your life is worth anything beyond protecting your children.

There is no side here. There is just the fact that nobody can do anything for Sarah but Sarah.

[JesusFightClub]

((((survivor)))) what you said, exactly. And I hope everything goes well for you.

I recently posted about my relative Jenna. She died at the hands of her partner. She and her partner both grew up thinking domestic violence was normal "If I give him too much lip of course he'll hit me"/"See if she talks back she needs to be taught a lesson." When one gets into the abuse cycle, as you say, it is hard indeed to escape, whether the abuse is physical, sexual or emotional.

[latraviata]

I said it before, one can't fight ignorance and stupidity!

We have probably all heard the idea that homosexuality is caused by a genetic trait. If this is true, then this would make the homosexual lifestyle acceptable to many people. The "I was born this way" statement has been key in pushing the homosexual agenda. In the interest of challenging this idea in love and truth, I will discuss my own opinions about this statement:

God is perfect. He would not speak of homosexuality in the scriptures as an abominable sin, if men and women bore no responsibility for it. The myth that people are born homosexual, just doesn't hold water...

Despite the fact that homosexual individuals have existed for thousands of years, there is still no scientific evidence whatsoever for a "homosexual gene". Without a doubt the "it's genetic" theory has been actively promoted by homosexual activists and the media. However this remains simply a theory and no legitimate proof has been found to support it.

What can appear to be the fulfilling of an inherited genetic trait from adolescence through to adulthood, is really only the developing and strengthening of a habit. Some research has identified common elements in the lives of homosexuals, such as: negative relationships with the parent of the same-sex, leading to lack of gender identification, gender non-conformity (sissiness in boys and tomboyish behaviour in girls) that was not addressed by the parent, and a homosexual experience in adolescence. Such results lend support to the idea, that social and/or environmental factors are behind homosexuality.

Can homosexuals change? Do homosexuals lack free will? There is overwhelming evidence that they can change how they respond to their "inclinations" It is clear that homosexual conduct, like heterosexual immorality, is assumed to be something we can choose either to do, or not to do. Otherwise how could God condemn it? All sins assume personal responsibility. Homosexual sin is no exception.

Our modern world media has unfortunately reached the stage, where it portrays the homosexual lifestyle as happy, healthy and stable; therefore making that way of life sound more appealing. The truth about it, is that it is associated with a large number of serious physical and emotional health consequences. The Irish media portrays homosexual "committed relationships" as being commonplace, and very similar to the traditional family structure. The Irish government campaigned for civil partnerships as fast as it could, insisting that they were in great demand. This was a lie. Statistics also show that no more than nine percent of these "relationships" may be said to be stable. Is it for this tiny number that we are willing to violate the law of God?

I have commented here before, that large numbers of homosexuals can then go on to molest children. It is not hard to conclude that mentally unstable people, who give in to their own unnatural lusts towards another person of the same sex, would perhaps be also willing to also satisfy their unnatural and perverted lusts towards children. How is stating "I was born a homosexual" any different to saying, "I have a sexual interest in children...but don't hate me, I was born this way"? This of course is completely illogical.

Stop being brain-washed by a world who wants you to tolerate, promote and participate in this wickedness. "I was born this way" is a lie.

[doggie]

if god is perfect why did he make 1500 different species of homosexual animals. I guess they just decided they wanted to be gay. Coming from someone who would not know a real relationship from a asshole on a cow what can I say.

[virginmojito]

No comment! Thank goodness there's camps out there where they can whip homosexulity out of these hellions! *eyeroll*

Fearing that your 3yo daughter or sister will defraud your dad or bro, now that's perverted and twisted and whatever words you used.

Who's brain washed and wicked again? Take the keyboard away from stupid people. It should be laws against, letting the stupid type.

[FlorenceHamilton]

My little cousin was clearly born "that way". From the first time he opened his adorable little mouth and got on his adorable little feet, there was no doubt in anyone's mind in our family that he was gay. He has been very fortunate to be born into a family that loves him just as he is. He is grown up now and a well adjusted young adult. He never went through what so many young people do when they are afraid to face disapproving family and friends. If people like Sarah ever said anything to hurt this young man, I would spit in her face.

[Witsec7]

Which Sarah?

[virginmojito]

My little cousin was clearly born "that way". From the first time he opened his adorable little mouth and got on his adorable little feet, there was no doubt in anyone's mind in our family that he was gay. He has been very fortunate to be born into a family that loves him just as he is. He is grown up now and a well adjusted young adult. He never went through what so many young people do when they are afraid to face disapproving family and friends. If people like Sarah ever said anything to hurt this young man, I would spit in her face.

I don't know how it sounds, but I really want a daughter, and if I shall have a son, I'd rather want an adorable son like your cousin.

[twin2]

Which Sarah?

Zsu's #1 fangirl over at heartsdesire.

[Boogalou]

Which Sarah?

Sarah at Heart's Desire: sarah-heartsdesire.blogspot.com/2012/01/myth-of-i-was-born-this-way.html

[virginmojito]

A bird by it's feathers....

[keen23]

God has decided that lots of things were abominations. I mean, hello, eating shellfish. If God didn't want us to eat shellfish, why would s/he make it so damn tasty?

[demgirl]

I can't read Sarah at heartsdesire. It literally sends my blood pressure into unhealthy levels.

[virginmojito]

God has decided that lots of things were abominations. I mean, hello, eating shellfish. If God didn't want us to eat shellfish, why would s/he make it so damn tasty?

:lol: That's how I excuse myself for eating so much sushi.

[Terrie]

Once again, they failing to understand the difference between biological and genetic. Idiots.

[Witsec7]

Once again, they failing to understand the difference between biological and genetic. Idiots.

They would have to have studied biology to know those differences.

[Boogalou]

Once again, they failing to understand the difference between biological and genetic. Idiots.

It's actually geneticAL. Seriously. Well, according to her commenters anyway.

I like how Sarah is willing to quote "academic studies" when they support her bigotry hatred stupidity beliefs but as soon as other studies contradict all she needs is the Bible. Consistency, FTW.