Can People Be Born Homosexual?

[Austin]

Rise up? People like you have had abortion legal since 1973 with nothing even close to overturning it. what is there to rise up about and what has been chipped away at?

Clearly, you're not living in a cave since you have internet access, so the only conclusion I can draw is that you must be somewhat dim. Pity.

[formergothardite]

I seriously can't wait for Jericho's views on gay marriage. Perhaps they will make more sense then the the flip-flop views on abortion.

[jericho]

So, jericho's flippity floppity progression has been:

Abortion is murder but women who get abortions should get some compassion and a pat on the head. Maybe a time out to think about what they did wrong.

Abortion is murder and women who get them should go to jail like any other murderer, along with their doctors.

Abortion is murder but only the doctors who perform them should go to jail.

Abortion is murder but shouldn't carry the same penalty as murdering a child.

Protecting life is the most important thing and abortion is murder so lock women up.

She's stuck on the abortion is murder bit but she sure as fuck doesn't know what to do about it. Deep down she has to realize that a fetus is not the same as a child that has been born, but she Will. Not. Admit. It. Ever. I simply can't see this equivocating happening over whether or not a person who shot formergothardite's hypothetical five year old should be in jail or set loose with a Bible and a lollipop.

You added a few extras in there, but yes I have changed my opinion on this a few times. Notice what I didn't change my opinion on? Abortion is murder.

[Guest Anonymous]

You added a few extras in there, but yes I have changed my opinion on this a few times. Notice what I didn't change my opinion on? Abortion is murder.

Obviously I noticed that since I fucking typed it. It doesn't change the fact that you're a disingenous, slimy, liar. The most pathetic part of it is that you're lying to yourself, too.

[jericho]

Obviously I noticed that since I fucking typed it. It doesn't change the fact that you're a disingenous, slimy, liar. The most pathetic part of it is that you're lying to yourself, too.

Wow, so everyone who has ever changed their mind is a disingenuous, slimy, liar. (or maybe there are different variations for different issues)

[formergothardite]

You know, I can't figure out if Jericho is a troll or just not really sure about her beliefs because most of her posts involve not giving real answers and dancing around questions.

Go answer the other questions now please. You can start with homosexuality and why God really isn't a jerk if your would like. It would be a change from the common abortion debates.

And I think Lissar is calling you those names because if you really think a fetus is a life and you changed your mind to decide mothers who hire people kill their children shouldn't be charged with anything, your morals really are slimy.

[silvia]

This whole conversation--and jericho's unwillingness to think through the real-world consequences of her declaration that abortion should be considered murder--makes me think of the former "reformed" abortion providers who the pro-life movement now uplifts as icons (http://prolifeaction.org/providers/).

Um, hello? If these people TRULY came around to the thinking that abortion was murder, and truly repented, they would be presenting themselves at the police station post-haste and insisting they be put in jail, with many consecutive life sentences. I mean, they may have aborted, what, hundreds or thousands of unborn babies, which--according to pro-life thinking--is the same as killing that number of real, live children. The fact that none of these former abortion providers turn themselves in, and are even embraced wholeheartedly by pro-lifers, reveals what a sham the whole abortion=murder charade really is.

[formergothardite]

I predict that it will take about 10 pages to get a straight answer out of Jericho about her views on homosexuality.

[Guest Anonymous]

Wow, so everyone who has ever changed their mind is a disingenuous, slimy, liar. (or maybe there are different variations for different issues)

No, only the people who are disingenous, slimy, liars in the course of their mind changing.

Seriously, you're being disingenous right now! I suppose it's possible that you're incredibly stupid and unaware, but I think you're doing it deliberately.

And I think Lissar is calling you those names because if you really think a fetus is a life and you changed your mind to decide mothers who hire people kill their children shouldn't be charged with anything, your morals really are slimy.

Precisely.

[jericho]

I predict that it will take about 10 pages to get a straight answer out of Jericho about her views on homosexuality.

Why is this such an important issue for you to find out my view on? Better yet, why do you care?

[Austin]

Why is this such an important issue for you to find out my view on? Better yet, why do you care?

Did you notice what topic you posted in?

[thoughtful]

So, Jericho, what is your view on homosexuality?

[formergothardite]

Why is this such an important issue for you to find out my view on? Better yet, why do you care?

Well, it is the topic of this thread and you posted on it. I'm also nosy.

Edited because I wasn't making a lot of sense.

[formergothardite]

I've changed my mind, I think Jericho will flounce from this thread without giving a straight answer on her views on homosexuality, show back up in six month, and then get pouty because people bring up her posting history.

[Austin]

I've changed my mind, I think Jericho will flounce from this thread without giving a straight answer on her views on homosexuality, show back up in six month, and then get pouty because people bring up her posting history.

[jericho]

I've changed my mind, I think Jericho will flounce from this thread without giving a straight answer on her views on homosexuality, show back up in six month, and then get pouty because people bring up her posting history.

Yep, apparently any thread I post in will be referenced to abortion. I guess any other opinions I have on any other topic does not matter because I'm pro-life.

[amydamy]

It's the same thing, really. God created everything, yes? So he must have created sin, right? And he knows everything that has ever and will ever happen, so he knew from the get-go that billions of souls would be tortured for all eternity in the fiery pita of hell. So even though he's all powerful, and could presumably forgive anyone he wants and erase their sin, he came up with some convoluted sacrifice scheme that would only save a very small portion of the creation he loves so much. Cool guy, that God.

Hey be careful I got kicked out of Sunday school for asking a similar question.

[formergothardite]

Yep, apparently any thread I post in will be referenced to abortion. I guess any other opinions I have on any other topic does not matter because I'm pro-life.

Nah, I'm just going to go with the fact that you dance around questions and refuse to give straight answers, so people should be warned. Give your opinions on homosexuality, that is the initial topic of this post and it would be nice to get back to it.

[silvia]

I've changed my mind, I think Jericho will flounce from this thread without giving a straight answer on her views on homosexuality, show back up in six month, and then get pouty because people bring up her posting history.

Yeah, probably. Still, unless jericho is a bona fide troll, I tend to think there's some hope for her, if only because she keeps coming back. FJ has planted a seed of doubt in her mind, has challenged assertions that formerly seemed immune to challenge, and she's not going to forget this experience easily. Also, keep in mind that for every jericho who actually posts, there are probably a dozen lurkers who hold similar beliefs. So this exchange of views is valuable to a larger audience regardless of whether jericho comes back or not.

[Shina]

Back on topic a bit,

From my experience in fundie-lite church, I always thought that the whole "homosexuality is a choice" mantra came from the fact that it makes being a bigot easier.

"You ebil gays choose to be that way--you're offending God with your butt-fucking, so STOP IT."

When the fundies start recognizing that homosexuality is not a choice, it makes life a little harder for them. They have to face the very real fact that many of their own *cough, Ted Haggard* might be queer.

The fact that I, even in my most fundie-lite days, never thought of homosexuality as a choice, kept me from being a complete horse's ass. So, I guess I see this kind of recognition as a good thing. At least it's a step in the right direction.

[formergothardite]

So God created the world because he needs trillions of low-life, depraved humans to stroke his ego? Really? Sounds like he's kind of a dick, in my opinion? I mean really, if God is just completely perfect, why does he need glory? Isn't it glorious in and of itself to simply be perfect? Why isn't that enough for him? And why does he need to display his ultimate grace and mercy by comdemning billions upon billions of immortal souls to hell for an eternity? Wouldn't it be an even greater display of mercy to say "Okay, I know you guys are humans and you screw up sometimes. But you know what, I'm just gonna remove your sins from you when you die, and grant you entrance to heaven to live with your loved ones in a state of perpetual happiness forever." I seriously don't understand why Jesus needed to die for the sins of mankind. God is all powerful, he can do whatever the fuck he wants. So it should be a snap for him to look at a 'lying, murdering, adulterous blashpemer' (which is 99.9999% of the population apparently) and just let them into heaven. This eternal punishment for finite sins bullshit is, well, bullshit and I'm not buying it and if it lands me in hell, fine. I don't want to worship asshole god anyway.

Did jericho address this yet?

[jericho]

Yeah, probably. Still, unless jericho is a bona fide troll, I tend to think there's some hope for her, if only because she keeps coming back. FJ has planted a seed of doubt in her mind, has challenged assertions that formerly seemed immune to challenge, and she's not going to forget this experience easily. Also, keep in mind that for every jericho who actually posts, there are probably a dozen lurkers who hold similar beliefs. So this exchange of views is valuable to a larger audience regardless of whether jericho comes back or not.

I read this forum almost every day. I am not a troll and I don't even mean to stir up trouble. Its just that my opinion on abortion gets under so many people's skin here that it always blows up.

[formergothardite]

No, what gets under people's skin in this thread is that you won't give straight answers. You posted on a thread about homosexuality, yet won't even give your opinion.

[thoughtful]

I read this forum almost every day. I am not a troll and I don't even mean to stir up trouble. Its just that my opinion on abortion gets under so many people's skin here that it always blows up.

So how about telling us your opinions on homosexuality?

Several of us keep asking, you keep posting about other things.

[formergothardite]

Or, Jericho, you could address the questions people had about your beliefs about God. Posting stuff and then refusing to answer questions is troll like behavior. If you aren't a troll, don't act like one.