Mississippi's 'Personhood' Law Could Outlaw Birth Control

[formergothardite]

I'm pretty sure Jericho thinks that women who attempt illegal abortions deserve any horrible thing that happens to them. I mean, anyone who won't automatically say the child workers of the early 1900's were living a bad life, pretty much isn't going to give a crap about women in dire straights who feel like they can't remain pregnant.

[Burris]

I have to run for now. I might be back on later tonight. I appreciate the respectful discussion with most of you.

"Discussion!"

What "discussion"? You've just been bobbing and weaving around all but the most basic questions literally for hours. You've missed a boatload of more advanced queries, such as what the penalty should be levied against someone who has an abortion, and why corporate welfare - or as you prefer, 'helping private business grow' - is better than individual welfare.

You haven't defined what you mean by either "genuine" or "efficient" when it comes to what is worthy of government funding.

The only "proof" you've offered in the space of 17 pages - well, the only "proof" I saw, anyway - is a couple of extremely biased links to bullshit websites.

And don't you try weaseling out of this by claiming you "don't have all the answers." That is complete hogwash: You keep talking about how things should be done, and yet you can't offer anything but libertardian gibbering in place of a real plan for how to accomplish the change you want without knuckling under a large percentage of the population.

And the anecdotes about your welfare friend - I'm surprised your tongue hasn't turned black and fallen out for all the disingenuous crap you've vomited here today.

[emmiedahl]

I'm pretty sure Jericho thinks that women who attempt illegal abortions deserve any horrible thing that happens to them. I mean, anyone who won't automatically say the child workers of the early 1900's were living a bad life, pretty much isn't going to give a crap about women in dire straights who feel like they can't remain pregnant.

Her powers of denial are amazing.

"Private charity is just better! LALALALA I can't hear you!"

[Caribou]

Jericho, PLEASE answer the direct questions that have put to you repeatedly:

1. What, in your opinion, would be the apt punishment for a woman who has an abortion and what punishment would her medical provider receive?

2. You and your 50% who believe life begins at conception want to criminalize abortion because you think it's murder. Why can you not hold these BELIEFS (as they are not shared by another 50% of the population) and simply never have the procedure? Why are you so compelled to inflict your BELIEFS on the other 50%? Why does another woman expelling a clump of cells at 10 weeks from her body send you into such hysterics? You are not going to be there to support and nurture the cells if they're allowed (forced) to gestate and eventually become a viable person. YOU may believe it's murder and against the laws of your god and will send the woman to eternal damnation, but many, many people do not.

This is such a non-issue and should be a private, medical decision between a woman, her doctor and her partner if she so desires. If you don't agree with abortion, and I respect that position, simply don't have one. But do not dare to impose your beliefs, religious/"scientific", on me, my daughter or any other woman.

[formergothardite]

I believe that everyone would be better off if we got rid of the government and instead just followed the teachings of the stuffed pink teddy bear from my childhood. Please do not ask me for any real proof that this would work. The fact that I believe it is enough. We should get rid of the government tomorrow. Just watch and see it will all be great!

[Shirley MacLaine]

The only "proof" you've offered in the space of 17 pages - well, the only "proof" I saw, anyway - is a couple of extremely biased links to bullshit websites.

Hey now, don't forget all the people Jericho knows who have government assistance and don't have a perfectly healthy diet!

[emmiedahl]

I love how she kept talking about her beliefs.

You don't need to "believe" anything about private charities in the nineteenth century and before. We have these things called history books. Jericho could pick up a book at her local library and read accounts of poverty back then.

As for her links, they were to opinion sites! As my profs point out, you cannot support your unexpert opinion with another unexpert opinion. Get some statistics and facts. If there are no legit sources that support your opinion, reconsider your opinion because it is probably wrong.

The Tea Party is for small government unless we are talking about my vuhjayjay, and then all bets are off.

[Bella99]

I believe that everyone would be better off if we got rid of the government and instead just followed the teachings of the stuffed pink teddy bear from my childhood. Please do not ask me for any real proof that this would work. The fact that I believe it is enough. We should get rid of the government tomorrow. Just watch and see it will all be great!

Her Maj (8 yo) has one of those and she would still take Pinky to school if it was allowed. To all of you unbelievers - Pinky is Real! Pinky is the Bear of Love! Pinky decrees Fuzzy Hugs and Honey for All! And according to my daughter, Pinky has no Gender, Pinky is a Bear!

[formergothardite]

Her Maj (8 yo) has one of those and she would still take Pinky to school if it was allowed. To all of you unbelievers - Pinky is Real! Pinky is the Bear of Love! Pinky decrees Fuzzy Hugs and Honey for All! And according to my daughter, Pinky has no Gender, Pinky is a Bear!

Well this here is all the proof I need that what I believe is true! I'm sure Jericho will agree since she seems to also be going with beliefs that are lacking a great deal of solid evidience to support them.

[treemom]

Awwww, it's so cute our little fundie thinks banning abortion would stop it. It wouldn't. There were still a lot of people having abortions when it was banned, if you were rich you got a doctor to do it under the table, if you were poor you took your chances with other methods...

Ugh if I wasn't on my phone I could link to some stuff.

I would have flown to Canada. I already went to Kansas as it was.

[treemom]

Jericho. Please answer my question about what your law would look like. And then answer whether you read my story and where it would fit in there.

[oscar]

Jericho. Please answer my question about what your law would look like. And then answer whether you read my story and where it would fit in there.

treemom, I'm actually a little teary over the fact you're willing to do this.

[Sinister Rouge]

I would have flown to Canada. I already went to Kansas as it was.

I don't know what happened, but ((hugs)).

[treemom]

treemom, I'm actually a little teary over the fact you're willing to do this.

I think it is important that people understand that all of us who had abortions can't be stereotyped. Not ever young woman who has a first trimester abortion because she just can't have a baby is the same as the other women with first trimester abortions. And no pro-life story I ever read about late term abortions reflected mine or what I went through.

I am a real person, with a real experience. And before we start screaming ban it...well I think you need to know what it is.

[emmiedahl]

Oscar, I know. Treemom should write a book and at least get some royalties. I read an autobiography of an abortion doctor and it was so eye opening. The women who came to her needed her services in the worst way.

Every abortion has a story behind it. Someone who made a necessary decision for good reasons. It is just not my place, or anyone else's, to make that decision for someone else.

[treemom]

I don't know what happened, but ((hugs)).

I linked my story several pages back.

[longskirtlotsakids]

I don't know what more to say. I believe abortion should be against the law because it takes the life if a child in the womb. Many people do agree with this, that is why we have a huge debate on the issue.

Ok, yaknowwhat? Herein lies the issue. Stop calling a living, breathing woman "the womb." It is HER womb, and her body, and her her life.

The fact that you keep carrying on reducing women to nothing more than a single body part belies your true value of that person.

[Maul the Koala]

Every abortion has a story behind it. Someone who made a necessary decision for good reasons. It is just not my place, or anyone else's, to make that decision for someone else.

And that should be it. No one should have to justify why they had an abortion to anyone.

One of my medications stops working with extra estrogen/progestogen in my blood stream. So I can't be on hormonal birth control of any kind (and I'm extra fun one week of every month). Needless to say pregnancy would be a Very Bad Idea. The only alternative I have is going without my mood stabilizer since the other brands of mood stabilizers have been shown to harm developing fetuses. I shouldn't have to justify my decision to anyone. As it is, I imagine the pregnancy would be classified to many people as not a risk to my health.

Thankfully I live in a country where I won't have to worry about having to justify why I need an abortion or not if I ever do find myself needing one.

[Vex]

Thankfully I live in a country where I won't have to worry about having to justify why I need an abortion or not if I ever do find myself needing one.

Are you in Australia too?

The more I read about the pro-lifers in the US, the more glad I am to live in a place where if I needed it, I could walk up to any Pharmacy without a prescription and be given the morning after pill with no questions asked, at any age.

I have become quite paranoid about the need to keep Christian groups out of the government. When Australians vote in state or federal elections, they have the choice of filling in a green paper that lists only the major parties (which you label from 1-5 or so depending on preference), or filling in a huge white paper that lists every single party running (last federal election there were over 75 individual parties) that you also label from 1-whatever in order of preference.

I always choose the white form, and my last votes are always for the Christian parties. My fear is that if too many people are complacent about the white forms, the Christians will move to take over like they're trying to do in the US. I know it seems kind of paranoid, but I'm so afraid of Australia becoming like the US.

[emmiedahl]

Are you in Australia too?

The more I read about the pro-lifers in the US, the more glad I am to live in a place where if I needed it, I could walk up to any Pharmacy without a prescription and be given the morning after pill with no questions asked, at any age.

I think that is the case in the US as well, although I am sure some douchebag is working hard to get that changed.

[Vex]

I believe that some pharmacies lately (in the US) are actually refusing to provide the morning after pill.

[Maul the Koala]

Are you in Australia too?

The more I read about the pro-lifers in the US, the more glad I am to live in a place where if I needed it, I could walk up to any Pharmacy without a prescription and be given the morning after pill with no questions asked, at any age.

I'm in Canada. Despite my province being stereotyped as 'red-neck' when it comes to issues like abortion and same-sex marriage, they've been conducting surveys and it seems that people aren't being nearly as red-necked. I'm thankful that my province provides abortion services, even if some of the other provinces in Canada don't.

[longskirtlotsakids]

The laughable thing is, the type of society Jericho is whacking her pud to exists all over- Ireland is one example. It is also an amazingly wonderful example as to why faith based and private charity is an awful fail.

I am not even going to list out all the research sources because I am exhausted and have children to feed. But google "Magdalene Laundries" Abuse in Industrial Schools" to have some happy fun time stories about the lives of children in Ireland.

Or fuck, just read Angela's Ashes. That poor woman. If only she had the chance to get away from her husband, have birth control, and medical care for the what- 5? children that died?

I am FROM Ireland, and let me tell you, I truly believe most people there have huge PTSD from the way kids were raised there through the 50's.

[Katiebug]

Okay, you are telling me you have never seen someone abusing welfare? When I see what some people are buying with their food stamps it makes me furious. How about basic food supplies, not junk food! You obviously don't know the people I know on Welfare who still have cable TV, spend half of it on lottery tickets, and play Xbox all the time.

Is there some sort of welfare queen corollary to Godwinning a thread? Because once someone busts out the whole "people on welfare wearing $100 Nikes and driving their Escalades to the supermarket to buy lobster with their food stamps" business, I know that reasonable discussion is over.

In my state, people getting SNAP benefits have an EBT card to use, not paper stamps. I don't know about you, but I don't look too closely at others' payment methods while waiting in the checkout line nor do I care enough to check out the exact contents of their carts. I know what an EBT card looks like but operate on the assumption that 1) most of the people getting SNAP benefits are genuinely in need of them, and 2) it's none of my damned business to begin with.

On the abortion issue, I'm pro-life for me and pro-choice for everyone; abortion should be safe, legal, and ideally rarer than it is now. It's not a decision I could make for myself short of my life being at risk or a fatal defect in the baby, but that doesn't mean I'd ever impose those views on others. Another woman's choice is her choice and no one should be telling her what she can and can't do with her own body - especially the government.

Look up what Romania was like during the Ceausescu regime. Abortion and birth control of all kinds were outlawed and in fact criminalized as part of the regime's pro-natalist policies. They had menstrual police; women under 40 were checked at their workplaces every month or two to detect pregnancy as early as possible and women who did not conceive often enough or quickly enough were questioned by government officials. Because the government knew about pregnancies early on, miscarriages were viewed with suspicion. Unmarried women over 25 and infertile couples were penalized by paying fines for not reproducing. Yet all of this didn't stop women from seeking abortions; they simply went to unlicensed, unsafe providers and thousands - perhaps tens of thousands - of women died during the 30 years that abortion and birth control were illegal in Romania. And we all know of the hundreds of thousands to millions of Romanian children placed in institutions because their parents didn't want them or couldn't care for them. Children and adults are still suffering in Romania today as a result of an abortion and contraceptive ban that ended 20 years ago!

Ideally there would be little need for abortions if there were fewer unintended pregnancies to begin with, and a solid social support system for those who do experience unintended pregnancy and choose to parent. If there are fewer unintended/unwanted pregnancies then there will be way fewer abortions; a win-win in my opinion. I'll never understand how people can call themselves pro-life yet be against easy access to affordable, reliable birth control.

[starfish]

Slightly off-topic, but here goes,

If the govt ever tried to interfere with a man's ability to purchase viagra or the other penis drugs, we'd see an uproar like never before in this country. The protests in Egypt, the violence in the UK this summer, would be a walk in the park compared to what men would do if there were to be interference whatsoever with their precious penis drugs. Yet, there is no hesitation to get all in our lady business. I really hate hearing men discuss abortion, because most of them are completely uneducated and stupid sounding about the entire issue. They need to shut the hell up about it and go discuss the prostate with their guy friends.

And I've noticed that state legislators are trying to divert PP's funds into CPCs, which are not medical centers. What if a bunch of women legislators passed laws that said men had to get their prostate exams from evangelical pastors, since it deals with that area of the body? Can you imagine the uproar? Yet that is the equivalent of what they are trying to do to us.

Only it is worse in the case of the lying, incompetent CPCs.

By the way, I hear San Francisco is banning CPCs.