Mississippi's 'Personhood' Law Could Outlaw Birth Control

[formergothardite]

Well they were depending on private programs that you gush on about when all those pictures were taken. Kids were dying from poverty and horrible work conditions. Seemed like it took the government cracking down on child labor to prevent it. Not to say that children can't die from poverty today, just that it is less likely than the early 1900's. And it would be hard pressed to find a factory in America using child laborers.

What exactly about the early 1900's appealed to you so that you would use it as a time period to prove your points?

[jericho]

Nope. Why did you say that was the time period that proved your point private programs worked better and that you would send a single mother back to that time? Obviously that time period and the conditions of poor children prove that small, hands off government doesn't work and that private programs didn't work as well.

Ahh, so it was a trap! You so badly wanted me to answer this so that no matter what I said I would either be a jerk for not being concerned for poor 1900's people or be proved wrong and government is the solution to the their problems.

[treemom]

Btw, I appreciate everyone's comments but this is the exact situation I always think about when I am public about my story. It forces people to do one of three things

1. Be coy and obtuse which everyone can see through

2. Re-examine what they have been told about late term abortion or abortion in general and while it may not radically change their view, it usually makes it more nuanced.

3. Come clean and admit what the pro-life lobbying groups really want...which is me in jail in the best case scenario.

Any of those three things are positive to me.

Besides I am utterly convinced that a jury of 12 would have never convicted me of murder. I sleep well at night.

[Constance Vigilance]

Ahh, so it was a trap! You so badly wanted me to answer this so that no matter what I said I would either be a jerk for not being concerned for poor 1900's people or be proved wrong and government is the solution to the their problems.

Oh honey, there's no "or", you're just too stupid to see it.

[Effie]

Because it pretty much is the government. Those private organizations were around in the 1900's, and you acknowledge that life was pretty sucky back then for the poor.

Yes! :clap:

[jericho]

Here is the thing...I wasn't told no hope...I SAW NO HOPE. You clearly didn't read my story. It wasn't about a normal life. It was about being compassionate.

I think you are a shithead because you think those two things are the same and I really don't care if you hate me or not. I want you to be honest with yourself and others about what you really want. You want to put women like me into jail with people who kill children. You see that as the same.

What I want is for every child to have a chance to live. I do not want women to go to jail.

[emmiedahl]

Ahh, so it was a trap! You so badly wanted me to answer this so that no matter what I said I would either be a jerk for not being concerned for poor 1900's people or be proved wrong and government is the solution to the their problems.

It's not a trap. It's a fact. The government provides a solution to problems that private organizations could not solve. Period.

[formergothardite]

I didn't know what time period you would pick to prove that private programs worked to support the poor better than today. It's not my fault you either are ignorant of history so you picked a period that didn't actually do that or that you think living like the poor did in the early 1900's isn't as bad as poor people live today.

It's really not my fault that you can't find a time to prove that small government and private programs will support the poor as well as today. Perhaps you should rethink what you believe since it doesn't seem to be based in fact, just fiction.

[Constance Vigilance]

Btw, I appreciate everyone's comments but this is the exact situation I always think about when I am public about my story. It forces people to do one of three things

1. Be coy and obtuse which everyone can see through

2. Re-examine what they have been told about late term abortion or abortion in general and while it may not radically change their view, it usually makes it more nuanced.

3. Come clean and admit what the pro-life lobbying groups really want...which is me in jail in the best case scenario.

Any of those three things are positive to me.

Besides I am utterly convinced that a jury of 12 would have never convicted me of murder. I sleep well at night.

Agreed. No one turns around a few weeks before their due date and thinks "You know, actually I don't want this baby after all!" Late term abortions are done under tragic circumstances by women who very much wanted their pregnancy, to spare a child the horrendous suffering that is otherwise an inevitability. No one would go through that pain for anything less.

If you don't know that then you don't know what you're talking about, and you need -- need -- to shut up.

[emmiedahl]

You want for every child to have a chance to starve to death. That is the reality of your particular combination of beliefs. In treemom's case, you want for her daughter to have the chance to die the most painful death possible rather than ending it quickly. That is not a "chance". It is torture.

Like I said, if your CPC can take over for the government and begin providing food and shelter, then start offering that. Women won't need to go to the government, and your problems will be solved without putting any children on the street.

Treemom, your story also gives pro-choice women who have serious qualms about late term abortion the opportunity to look at their assumptions and realize that their qualms are bullshit. True story.

[jericho]

Well folks, it appears that both sides of the topic have been thoroughly discussed here. Opinions of me have been duly stated and will not likely change. So I am going to gracefully bow out of this thread.

[Constance Vigilance]

Well folks, it appears that both sides of the topic have been thoroughly discussed here. Opinions of me have been duly stated and will not likely change. So I am going to gracefully bow out of this thread.

"Gracefully" nothing. Get out and take your shit with you.

[formergothardite]

But if you have another time period in mind that you think will prove your point, feel free to share it. I'll ask again, since you think the government is doing such a bad job and private organizations will do better, provide me with a time period in American history before the government offered welfare programs where your ideas worked. What time period would you send a single mother to where she is going to be better taken care of by private programs than she is by the government today. We already know the early 1900's was a fail, so you are going to have to pick another one.

Oops, looks like Jericho is going to flounce since he has been proven wrong. Typical fundie move.

[Sinister Rouge]

Isn't it hard to bow with your head so firmly up your ass?

[Frumpalicious]

What I want is for every child to have a chance to live. I do not want women to go to jail.

But you said previously that abortion is murder.

"Felony murder is typically the same grade of murder as premeditated murder. In many jurisdictions, felony murder is a crime for which the death penalty can be imposed, provided that the defendant himself killed, attempted to kill, or intended to kill."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule

So. What punishment do you support? 20 years in prison? 50 years? The death penalty?

[Guest Anonymous]

What I want is for every child to have a chance to live. I do not want women to go to jail.

Take it up with God. He's the one that's allowing kids to be conceived with horrible genetic diseases that are incompatible with life.

[treemom]

Well folks, it appears that both sides of the topic have been thoroughly discussed here. Opinions of me have been duly stated and will not likely change. So I am going to gracefully bow out of this thread.

Hey I am not the one saying you are a murderer. Although I am curious, you never did answer. Did you actually read my story?

[Effie]

What I want is for every child to have a chance to live.

No, it seems like you want every potential child to live. I don't see you caring much about the actual children. :roll:

Anti-abortion is not the solution if you want to decrease children's poverty and infant mortality.

[emmiedahl]

Yes, jericho has better things to do, like go to Tea Party rallies and hand out tiny plastic fetuses.

[Constance Vigilance]

[StarrieEyedKat]

Well folks, it appears that both sides of the topic have been thoroughly discussed here. Opinions of me have been duly stated and will not likely change. So I am going to gracefully bow out of this thread.

I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.

[treemom]

No, it seems like you want every potential child to live. I don't see you caring much about the actual children. :roll:

Anti-abortion is not the solution if you want to decrease children's poverty and infant mortality.

My child had no chance at life more than a couple of days WITH intubation. I wanted to spare her that. I had that right removed from me by pro-life lobby in my state. So I made the difficult choice to terminate.

Trust me..while I think either choice sucked and was right. I can assure you that sadly not every fetus has a chance at life.

--directed at Jericho, not you effie.

[Maul the Koala]

There are private clinics in those provinces, so you can pay for an abortion here.

Dr Morgentaler, the man who owns/runs the clinics has been fighting the provincial governments constantly over the issue. He is fighting for the rights of women to have access/public funding, but because he is not a woman himself he can't win.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Morgentaler

There are no abortion provided in PEI and Nunavut period. PEI was looking to change it a bit back but changed their minds and is keeping the status quo. Nunavut isn't surprising because as it is most of their patients have to be transported down to Alberta for care beyond what a family doctor can do. From what I've read about NS and NB women do go out of province on occasion to have an abortion performed due to the issues with funding.

Henry Morgentaler... apparently the most evil living person according to my Catholic friends. They've been petitioning the government to revoke his Order of Canada for years now.

Oh and I like how the posts about the 1966 Decree and abadoned Romanian orphans were ignored by our friend. Reality doesn't fit into your nice little plan, does it? Here's some reading

http://www.ceausescu.org/ceausescu_text ... nthood.htm

http://www.demogr.mpg.de/Papers/worksho ... aper25.pdf (page 11) has some great resources

http://womenshistory.about.com/od/crimi ... usescu.htm

http://www.worldvision.ca/ContentArchiv ... nages.aspx

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4630855.stm

A quick search on Google shows the conditions of Romanian orphanages

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sugex ... a=N&tab=wi

Yeah. Not a place I'd like to get my ideas on how to change laws from.

Oh look. I was too late. Flounced. Pity.

[treemom]

Oh and Jericho, clearly you formed an opinion about every abortion and are unlikely to change them...even when confronted with facts and real life. If I were you I wouldn't pat myself on the back to hard.

[notsocommon]

I by no means mean to trivialize your situation. But you are asking me a tough questions and you want an answer so I will give you one. I believe it is God's place to decide when a a life should end, not man. The only similarity of drowning an 11 year old and what you did is that I would consider them both murder. Not the same form of murder, but murder none the less. If abortion was illegal I would constitute your situation with murder charges. There, you got me to say it, and say what you will about me, but I do not hate you. I hate what you did because that child was not given a chance. I have heard story after story from mothers who were told there was no hope, but then a miracle happened. The child does not always live an absolutely normal life, but God has a plan for that life none the less.

You are a massive asshole. How DARE you say you care about women and children when you spout this kind of bullshit?

Tell me, Are you willing to pay for the care of children who are born with these massive issues? The medical care for a child that will never make it? For those 1 in a million 'miracles' are you willing to pay for their life long care? Of course you are not, so kindly shut the fuck up.