Mississippi's 'Personhood' Law Could Outlaw Birth Control

[notsocommon]

Wait, so a painless abortion before birth=murder and a painful protacted death after birth=ideal? You are a cold, cold person. Treemom made a morally sound decision for her own (wanted) child.

I would like to know how a situation like this is any different from when we 'pulled the plug' on my mother. Both are situations that were not compatible to life. Both had 'things that could be done.' Both had loved ones who hade the painful, but right, decision.

Are my father, sibs and I murders for 'killing' my mother? There could have been a 'miracle,' after all! Why is this at all different from Tree's situation?

[Shirley MacLaine]

What a terrible person. This conversation made me feel bad about the world.

[wtfrenchtoast]

Wow. Let me just say to treemom, I am so so so sorry about your loss. I can't even imagine the pain that sacrifice caused you and you're an amazing person for wanting to spare your baby any pain.

And jericho, if you're still reading here, you are a world-class asshole. I can't even imagine the callousness that would make you want to put treemom in jail for what she did. A decision that must have already caused her crippling pain, and you're going to add to that with murder charges. Congratulations, I'm pretty sure you're the most vile person I've ever encountered. Did you know Texas still practices the death penalty? I'm sure you did. So every Texan woman who has an abortion should probably die, right? My friend from high school, whose father might have literally KILLED her if he'd found out she was pregnant, she should die anyway. God, I can't even wrap my mind around that idea. The exchange of a full, real human life for the potential of a clump of cells. I'd say go to hell, if I believed in hell, but I don't.

Like someone said, go take this shit up with your god. He controls everything, right? So he can stop abortions happening anytime he sees fit.

[emmiedahl]

Why, oh why, does callous disregard for actual living people always go hand-in-hand with intense regard for the unborn?

Notice how jericho skirted the birth control question. I am willing to bet she thinks the evil whores should just keep their legs together.

[Austin]

Why, oh why, does callous disregard for actual living people always go hand-in-hand with intense regard for the unborn?

Notice how jericho skirted the birth control question. I am willing to bet she thinks the evil whores should just keep their legs together.

That pretty much sums up the anti-choice view. They believe that women already have a choice, which is the choice not to have sex. Go figure.

[thoughtful]

I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.

Ah, another chance to celebrate Claude Rains' birthday!

[thoughtful]

What a terrible person. This conversation made me feel bad about the world.

I see it as one terrible person being countered by a slew of moral, intelligent people with darned good arguments.

That's just the kind of Pollyanna I am. :lol:

[luckylibrarian]

A crazy bitch wrote:

I by no means mean to trivialize your situation. But you are asking me a tough questions and you want an answer so I will give you one. I believe it is God's place to decide when a a life should end, not man. The only similarity of drowning an 11 year old and what you did is that I would consider them both murder. Not the same form of murder, but murder none the less. If abortion was illegal I would constitute your situation with murder charges. There, you got me to say it, and say what you will about me, but I do not hate you. I hate what you did because that child was not given a chance. I have heard story after story from mothers who were told there was no hope, but then a miracle happened. The child does not always live an absolutely normal life, but God has a plan for that life none the less.

Jericho, you are a biggest piece of shit that has ever smeared this board. I hope to God that you never experience something like treemom and many other posters here have, but if you do, I hope that you are shown the same level of "compassion" that you have displayed here. You are exactly what is wrong with our society.

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out. Good riddance.

[Eponine]

Ah and with the sudden willingness to answer the tough questions I'm sad he/she didn't answer my simple one about sex ed! Though I'm pretty sure I know what the answer would be: no sex ed because whore just should be taught to not be so whorey. Never mind the fact that abstinence education clearly doesn't work.

Why did you say that was the time period that proved your point private programs worked better and that you would send a single mother back to that time? Obviously that time period and the conditions of poor children prove that small, hands off government doesn't work and that private programs didn't work as well.

It really seems like we were dealing with someone with a SODRT-level education. He/she probably picked some period that sounded nice from a fundie POV without really knowing the reality of life then. Maybe that's too much benefit of the doubt but he/she seemed pretty stymied on this point.

My daughter actually has been busking occasionally outside the symphony because she needs/wants a very expensive concert violin. We go with her, bought the appropriate permit, etc. So she probably is technically a beggar. Oh, those lazy entitled welfare families.

Now completely OT: busking is actually kind of fun! I used to do it with friends on the weekends in subways. It was a great time to practice and improvise together. :) I hope your daughter is making some decent money!

[starfish]

She took her toys and went home! Perhaps she's on her way to sign up for the Mandatory Organ Transfer Program, which someone else mentioned.

Since she's all for life and all.

It would require everyone to submit tissue sampling. When a Precious! Human! Life! needed an organ, whoever matched the need would be required to give up their kidney or whatever organ is needed. And no exceptions for health! Coz we all know doctors just use that as a loophole to get out of things.

No such thing as privacy or sovereignty over your own body. The paddy wagon will be right over to fetch you for your mandatory organ transfer.

How do you like that, Jerico???? Does that comport with your view of this country? Ever read the Handmaiden's Tale?

[Boogalou]

Oh jericho, I went to class and missed all the fun. I know you flounced gracefully, but my guess is that you are still reading. First of all, I am not an idiot and I am fully aware that man = mankind. But mankind =/= humankind. See how that works? Gender inclusive language is fun, unless you are you and want to take women's rights away and don't view women as human. I realize that there are many important conversations going on but I couldn't let this slip. Apparently, I have no second of all. I was going to say something else but I am trying to practice some restraint here, so that's it folks.

I am now going to bow out of this discussion gracefully because I am sick of answering people's questions and I need to go find some more right wing blogs to present as valid evidence for my various beliefs and opinions.

[liltwinstar]

So, according to Jericho and many pro-life activists, God should decide who lives and dies. Ok, fine...how do they justify life support then? Or even any medical treatment? If God is the only one who's supposed to decide on these things (not, you know, the humans that he supposedly created with logic and reason and compassion and whatnot), then why bother with doctors??? Infection? Too bad, you're dead. Head injury?? No rehab and treatment for you, no sir!! You can just die. Lost the ability to eat on your own? Luckily for you, you get to starve to death! Yipee! Total culture of life right there :roll:

Slightly different topic...I grew up going to anti abortion events, and now, I'm shocked by how little real understanding and compassion was shown to women. When they talked about late-term abortions, specifically, we were never told about conditions that are incompatable with life- it was all about the mother's "selfishness" as if she didn't want to raise a "special needs" child. Which, as I've toodled around the web and read the stories of women who have needed to have late-term abortions, is clearly not the case. Anencephaly, for example, is not a "special needs" situation like autism or whatever; fetuses with that condition can't survive, period. Rather than some random stranger deciding what's more "compassionate" to do in that case, it should be up to the woman/family and her doctor. Why is that so hard to see???

[2xx1xy1JD]

Mandatory organ donation is probably the closest analogy, but only if you include not just cadaver organs but mandatory donation of kidney or bone marrow if you are found to be compatible. Hey, it's all about saving lives, right? I remember speaking to someone who had donated a kidney, and the operation seemed roughly equivalent to a c-section with a similar recovery time.

So, don't tell women that you will make abortion illegal unless you would be fine with a law FORCING you to donate a kidney.

I'm also highly skeptical of exceptions for the life of the mother. Here are some true stories from my dh and BIL (both doctors):

1. Patient who was 14 weeks pregnant and had serious, unstable lupus found it pretty much impossible to get a therapeutic abortion, because private clinics wouldn't take 2nd trimester cases and hospitals had stopped performing them due to concerns about protests. Dh spent a week on the phone, ranting and raving, before getting her scheduled in at an out-of-town hospital. Patient required meds which cannot be taken while preg., and the preg. itself can make the lupus worse and less stable. Lupus can be fatal if not controlled.

2. Patient had water break at 20 weeks, and 1 week later came to hospital with severe infection. BIL (resident in the ICU) told me that the OB resident at the Catholic hospital listened for fetal heartbeat and found one. When BIL asked why they weren't performing an emergency abortion or hysterectomy, he was told "we don't do that". Patient died.

[TinfoilHatMandatory]

Aww ,man, jericho flounced! :violin: I was a lurker for a long time, but I wanted to ask the pro lifers who want to protect the babeez a question. So, if my vegan friend decides that she can't handle having animals die from humans as she feels they are akin to human life, and she decides to pass a bunch of laws and make it punishable by death to kill any animals, that would be cool with all you pro lifers? I mean, her morals/religion/beliefs set her standard of life so that it is any breathing animal, so she should outlaw anything that threatens life.

[Austin]

Welcome to FJ! Don't despair - we still have some fundies hanging around who also have a very difficult time with shades of gray :D

[Effie]

Ah and with the sudden willingness to answer the tough questions I'm sad he/she didn't answer my simple one about sex ed! Though I'm pretty sure I know what the answer would be: no sex ed because whore just should be taught to not be so whorey. Never mind the fact that abstinence education clearly doesn't work.

Yup, Jericho mentioned that they offer abstinence info at his/her CPC. :roll:

Edit. Welcome TinfoilHatMandatory! :dance:

[desertvixen]

When the woman in Texas drowned her five children several years ago, I could not justify what she did because she had some rough times at home.

Like severe mental illness and a husband who wouldn't keep it in his pants or get snipped to protect his wife?

I love how all these government-is-evil-and-should-barely-exist people don't have a single problem with the government all up in our uteri. Is there a more intrustive way that government could possibly interfere? I can't think of one.

Austin, the really infuriating part is that most of them don't HAVE a uterus for government to get all intrusive with. Therefore, it's okay!

Agreed. No one turns around a few weeks before their due date and thinks "You know, actually I don't want this baby after all!" Late term abortions are done under tragic circumstances by women who very much wanted their pregnancy, to spare a child the horrendous suffering that is otherwise an inevitability. No one would go through that pain for anything less.

And since some of the extreme pro-life crazies think it is appropriate to gun a man down in church, we have less of a chance that these women can get the help they need. Not to mention the whole killing OBs who also perform abortions in their own kitchens.

[treemom]

I am going to go one radical step farther with the Andrea Yates situation. Her children would have been better off being aborted than drowned in a tub.

My pregnancy termination didn't involve other fetuses/children being chased through the house while the rest watched them being killed. So yeah, there are many ways abortion is better than murder.

[alphaeta08]

Yup, Jericho mentioned that they offer abstinence info at his/her CPC. :roll:

Edit. Welcome TinfoilHatMandatory! :dance:

The "abstinence info" thing threw me off, too! What "info" does one need about abstinence? It's pretty self-explanatory. Still, my high school managed to string it out for like twelve weeks. :roll:

Ugh, so lame that half the country still feels like our most recent flouncer.

[ering]

Long time lurker first time poster

I just wanted to say I'm so glad I went to a high school that taught us everything about sex. Hell they gave away free condoms in the nurses office.

I'm also wondering about how abstinence only ed works? Is it pretty much "don't have sex" in every class?

[treemom]

The "abstinence info" thing threw me off, too! What "info" does one need about abstinence? It's pretty self-explanatory. Still, my high school managed to string it out for like twelve weeks. :roll:

Ugh, so lame that half the country still feels like our most recent flouncer.

The thing is I don't think they do. They may be pro-life...but the majority have lots and a lots of ideas of where exceptions should be made. That is what is really frightening about the laws the lobby gets passed...they don't even reflect the real beliefs of the average pro-life voter.

[treemom]

Long time lurker first time poster

I just wanted to say I'm so glad I went to a high school that taught us everything about sex. Hell they gave away free condoms in the nurses office.

I'm also wondering about how abstinence only ed works? Is it pretty much "don't have sex" in every class?

Yes. Pretty much.

[desertvixen]

I'm also wondering about how abstinence only ed works? Is it pretty much "don't have sex" in every class

Don't forget fun activities like slut shaming and comparing girls who have had sex to 1) lollypops that have been licked or 2) tape that has lost its stickiness.

[Angri-la]

Well folks, it appears that both sides of the topic have been thoroughly discussed here. Opinions of me have been duly stated and will not likely change. So I am going to gracefully bow out of this thread.

You are without grace, whomever you are. And we just got the damn rugs clean. Thanks a lot. Mr. Angri-la will clean them again, but we need to take up a collection to get him a steamer for Christmas; believe me, jericho, your shit does stink.

[emmiedahl]

Fundie translator: stop proving me wrong! omg you guys are so mean!