Mississippi's 'Personhood' Law Could Outlaw Birth Control

[Constance Vigilance]

The government is needed for certain things I need. For example, if there were private police and fire stations, things would be chaotic.

Fixed that for you. If private organisations can do everything better, how could they possbly not do this better? Is some internal consistency too much to hope for, I ask you. There are no great trolls anymore.

[emmiedahl]

Wait, jericho, you don't want a volunteer policeman handling law enforcement? I thought low cost private solutions were the answer! I guess you only want paid government professionals where your own well-being is concerned?

[Constance Vigilance]

Wait, jericho, you don't want a volunteer policeman handling law enforcement? I thought low cost private solutions were the answer! I guess you only want paid government professionals where your own well-being is concerned?

Like, why would you want someone who's only paid to protect your property and your life? I want some random unpaid volunteeer. You know, someone who really has a heart for it.

[JellyHope]

Even though you're demonstrably wrong about that?

Out of curiosity, where do you stand on the death penalty?

And how come you're all for the government getting out of people's affairs, unless those people happen to be women of childbearing age?

:clap:

And ugghhh, I'm so sick of people thinking just because I'm pro-choice, that must mean I'm pro-abortion.

How fast would this entire debate go away if men had uteri?

[jericho]

Oh, jericho, now you're not even trolling consistently. Not two pages ago you said:

Now how do you get rid of welfare without getting rid of welfare? You see how you've fallen down?

Come on, don't let this get to you. You're never going to be in the big leagues, but if you pick up your game you could be on at least a C average. Try the bit about the 1900s again. You had some good insane links, and people were really enjoying the mental imagery.

*Edited for a riffle.

How is this inconsistent? I said government should get out of welfare and leave it to the private sector in both cases. It would take a transition of course.

[wtfrenchtoast]

So Jericho, what should happen to women who have abortions and doctors who perform them? Sorry, you can't state that position and wimp out when it comes to punishment. What, you don't want to think about what would happen to a scared 16 year old girl who gets carted away to the police station for her reproductive choices? Is that too hard to think about? Why won't you take a stand on that? You can't have one without the other darling.

This is exactly the reason I am pro-choice. I don't like the idea of abortion at all, but I would NEVER want to see a woman punished for her choices about her body. That's sickening

[jericho]

Because our view doesn't force anyone to have an abortion, it doesn't force anyone to do anything.

I didn't say that.

[Lainey]

alksdjf;alksfj;laskjdf misread! (this was an edit, so I don't look too crazazy)

I...I need a "bashing head against brick wall" smiley, Shirley. Can you find me one? I have to go lie down, because I'm a delicate flower or some damn thing.

[emmiedahl]

Please, jericho, can you tell us all about how wonderful the lives of the poor were in the nineteenth century? Do share about the fairy tale existence of life before government welfare.

[Constance Vigilance]

Nat at at, jericho. You don't get to ask me a question until you've answered mine. Fair's fair.

[formergothardite]

Lets look at more photos of what life was like for poor children back in Jericho's day of loving private programs caring for the poor children. Yes or no Jericho, do you think children living like this is acceptable? This is what you would send a single poor mother and her children back too?

http://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/hine-photos/

http://msholcombsushistoryclass.blogspo ... ssion.html

http://dicksworld.wordpress.com/tag/child-labor/

http://www.historynyc.com/proddetail.as ... 310&cat=83

[Sinister Rouge]

Yep it sure was! So lets bring in the government. They can fix everything!

Oh dear, what's that smell? Oh, yes. It's another one of those blasted Teabaggers

I agree. I can still hear my great-great-grandparents talking about how life was so much better when everything was just like you read in those Dickens' novels

Mine ended up in a Victorian London workhouse; apparently rope-picking is hell on the hands, but bone collecting can bring in a penny or two... a week.

[Shina]

I didn't say that.

Making abortion illegal forces women to carry pregnancies to term.

Or it forces them to seek unsafe, illegal procedures.

Pro-choice=we have a choice.

[Boogalou]

I didn't say that.

You kind if did. If you had your way then you would force women to NEVER get an abortion. Since abortion is legal people who believe they are wrong do not need to get one, people who do not believe they are wrong can get one if they choose it.

[debrand]

Jericho, I'm not trying to bait you. Have you read anything about how coal miners lived during the turn of the late 19th/early 20th century? What about the condition of child factory workers? or Sweat shops? I am hoping that your views are based on a lack of knowledge.

[emmiedahl]

Please, jericho, can you tell us all about how wonderful the lives of the poor were in the nineteenth century? Do share about the fairy tale existence of life before government welfare.

The eebil government had to pass a law forbidding children to work in coal mines. Silly kids, I'm sure they had enough food (from the many lovely private organizations handling charity at the time!) and were just spending 14 hour days underground for fun. And when that was made illegal, they went to work in factories. Silly kids! Why weren't they in all those lovely private schools?

[jericho]

Fixed that for you. If private organisations can do everything better, how could they possbly not do this better? Is some internal consistency too much to hope for, I ask you. There are no great trolls anymore.

So I am a troll because I came on an expressed my opinions after being asked?

[Lainey]

:clap:

And ugghhh, I'm so sick of people thinking just because I'm pro-choice, that must mean I'm pro-abortion.

How fast would this entire debate go away if men had uteri?

Right? I'm not pro-abortion at all. I think it's terrible that some women are forced to have to make that choice. I really doubt anyone's doing it for kicks.

As to your second statement, I would really, really like to know the answer to that question. If men could bear children, would we be hearing the same arguments? I really don't know.

[emmiedahl]

No, you are a troll because you keep repeating the same opinion and not dealing with all the comments basically proving you wrong.

[formergothardite]

Exactly, emmiedahl. I have provided several links that show what life was like for children during the times Jericho says is great, and yet he/she has refused to address them.

[Eponine]

I think I posted this link before, but this but if info was in it. "Apart from informal giving by neighbors and friends, and assistance provided through church congregations, the major sources of reciprocal relief were fraternal societies such as the Knights of Pythias, Sons of Italy, Polish National Alliance, and Independent Order of Odd Fellows. The activities of these societies dwarfed those of organized charity and governmental poor-relief bureaucracies. In 1920, for example, there were over 10,000 fraternal orders in the United States with roughly 100,000 separate lodges. That year, about 18 million Americans (most of them wage earners) were members—roughly 30 per cent of all adults over age twenty."

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/feature ... reaucracy/

This is kind of an interesting note, but you're ignoring the fact that the vast majority of those fraternal organizations did not help the poor indiscriminately. Most of them had stipulations about receiving the charity - you had to be a particular denomination, from a particular part of the community, or a particular heritage. And most of those only served white people.

And yes, those organizations were huge, especially compared to the pretty much non-existent government programs at the time.

But the programs now are able to reach a MUCH higher percentage of the population, and don't have requirements about race, heritage, religious affiliation, etc.

You're also ignoring the fact that many, many of these charitable organizations were abusive to those who received aid or exploited them. Look at many private orphanages at the time, or poorhouses. The progressive movement of the early 1900's came about because the conditions were so shitty that it was just no longer sustainable to support the poor classes as the system was set up - the private institutions were not doing a stellar job.

Also just for fun: maternal and infant mortality was at its highest rate of the 20th century between 1900 and 1930, according to the CDC. 40% of those were from sepsis, and half of those sepsis deaths were from botched abortions. The rate was about 750 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births, so about 150 per 100,000 per year due to abortions. Taking all factors into consideration that seems like a pretty high number of abortions per year in the early 1900's. If your goal here is to make the point that there are fewer abortions when private social services are, in your mind, more abundant, I think you picked the wrong time period for comparison.

Finally, these sources you keep citing are laughable. SODRT perhaps?

[jericho]

You kind if did. If you had your way then you would force women to NEVER get an abortion. Since abortion is legal people who believe they are wrong do not need to get one, people who do not believe they are wrong can get one if they choose it.

What I meant was, I didn't say that quote you that quoted me on.

[formergothardite]

Look at those links I provided yet Jericho? What do you think? Is it okay for children to live like that, since this is the time period you are acting like proves private programs can provide for the needy.

[Shirley MacLaine]

What I meant was, I didn't say that quote you that quoted me on.

My bad, you fucked up when you quoted Boogalou and I thought you had said that. My mistake.

But you still believe that women should be forced to carry pregnancies to term just by virtue of wanting to outlaw abortion, soo... I don't feel too bad.

[Shina]

What I meant was, I didn't say that quote you that quoted me on.

No you didn't, my bad. Sorry bout that.

But you said "Because there are other lives at stake. The lives of the unborn." in answer to the question of why your belief on the legality of abortion is the one we should follow. Which is saying your belief is right, because you believe it's right.