Mississippi's 'Personhood' Law Could Outlaw Birth Control

[debrand]

[You are equating that to drowning my 11 year old?

.

I used to be prolife. Until just now, I didn't fully think about how offensive it is to compare a clump of cells to a child. The cells can't think or experience anything until the brain develops further. It seems silly to put its right to exist before the woman's rights.

Jericho, are you for providing services that will prevent sexually active people from getting pregnant, like free BC or sex education?

[Angri-la]

How does your CPC support women? Since you are against abortion *and* government assistance, I am assuming that you are willing to pay their rent and all of their living/medical expenses throughout the pregnancy and postpartum period, plus provide free childcare for at least five years. That is the level of support that most women considering an abortion for financial reasons would need.

The only way to morally justify your positions is to offer this level of services to every single woman who walks in your doors. Are you doing that?

I already asked a similar question a few pages back and was ignored.

What do you do, jericho, to assist the fetuses once they are born, and, of course, their mothers (and fathers! sometimes two parent households can be below the poverty line, especially if they follow the edict that all women should stay home with their kids)? How do you help the poor? What do you do for the least of your brothers (and sisters)? You should know Matthew 25:45....

[Constance Vigilance]

I used to be prolife. Until just now, I didn't fully think about how offensive it is to compare a clump of cells to a child. The cells can't think or experience anything until the brain develops further. It seems silly to put its right to exist before the woman's rights.

The clump of cells is far more real and meaningful to the antichoicers than any living, breathing person (child) ever could be. Especially if the person is female. HOO boy, then she just doesn't matter at all.

*Edited for riffle.

[lovefromgirl]

I used to be prolife. Until just now, I didn't fully think about how offensive it is to compare a clump of cells to a child. The cells can't think or experience anything until the brain develops further. It seems silly to put its right to exist before the woman's rights.

Jericho, are you for providing services that will prevent sexually active people from getting pregnant, like free BC or sex education?

Or in my case, sterilisation? That's about what it would take for me to feel safe.

[Effie]

'Cause then....who's looking after the child you forced her to have? Are you looking after it?

ETA: And what about her other children? You're taking them all in, yeah?

Jericho, do you have a foster home? How many children can you take care of?

[Austin]

The clump of cells is far more real and meaningful to the antichoicers than any living, breathing person (child) ever could be. Especially if the person is female. HOO boy, then she just doesn't matter at all.

*Edited for riffle.

So true. They have made idols of the zygote/blastocyte/embryo/fetus and absolutely worship at the altar of the "unborn". Too bad those who have actually been born don't merit even a fraction of their concern.

George Carlin made the truest statement ever on this subject.

[emmiedahl]

The thing is: a baby is not just a one time deal. That baby does not disappear the moment it is born. I am basically a slave to my children. I work all day and the money goes to their care and comfort. When I am not working at an actual job, I am caring for them, cleaning, doing laundry. A mother is an indentured servant for at least 18 years. By being against abortion, you are *for* slavery.

It's not slavery because I wanted the children and chose to take it on. If I did not want the child and was forced to take on their care, completely different story.

In my magical world, every child would be wanted. No one would have an unplanned pregnancy. And economic reasons would not be a part of the abortion decision, because our government would offer a vast network of services and ensure a good life for children and their mothers. Embarrassment and judgment would never even enter the picture because I want every mother to be a proud mother.

To help bring reality a little closer to my perfect world, I am voting for people who support increasing services. I agree that they are inefficient and insufficient; let's work on finding ways we can run welfare programs to put the maximum amount of money in a single mother's budget. I also support free birth control given to everyone, even in junior high schools--there is a sixth grader pregnant in my friend's son's class.

Our perfect worlds probably look a lot alike, Jericho. They look a lot like the reality in Sweden and other countries with low abortion rates and high social service involvement. Are you supporting programs that will create your perfect world, or are you just about punishing women who make what you consider a wrong decision?

[jericho]

So Jericho, what about me? You are saying that ending a 'life' within the womb with little to no pain. A life that have no chance of surviving more than a few days and that is WITH intubation. And I know that factually because I saw her after I delivered her. A decision I made because I was not legally allowed to sign a DNR before she was born and stabilized?

You are equating that to drowning my 11 year old?

And you think I should face murder charges for that?

Don't speak in abstracts...speak to my situation. And tell me that is the same as murder. Tell me I violated some sacred, sanctity of life. Tell me that what I did wasn't the right thing. At least have the balls to do that. Be honest about what you really seek.

I by no means mean to trivialize your situation. But you are asking me a tough questions and you want an answer so I will give you one. I believe it is God's place to decide when a a life should end, not man. The only similarity of drowning an 11 year old and what you did is that I would consider them both murder. Not the same form of murder, but murder none the less. If abortion was illegal I would constitute your situation with murder charges. There, you got me to say it, and say what you will about me, but I do not hate you. I hate what you did because that child was not given a chance. I have heard story after story from mothers who were told there was no hope, but then a miracle happened. The child does not always live an absolutely normal life, but God has a plan for that life none the less.

[Guest Anonymous]

I by no means mean to trivialize your situation. But you are asking me a tough questions and you want an answer so I will give you one. I believe it is God's place to decide when a a life should end, not man. The only similarity of drowning an 11 year old and what you did is that I would consider them both murder. Not the same form of murder, but murder none the less. If abortion was illegal I would constitute your situation with murder charges. There, you got me to say it, and say what you will about me, but I do not hate you. I hate what you did because that child was not given a chance. I have heard story after story from mothers who were told there was no hope, but then a miracle happened. The child does not always live an absolutely normal life, but God has a plan for that life none the less.

Yeah. Fuck you.

[emmiedahl]

Wait, so a painless abortion before birth=murder and a painful protacted death after birth=ideal? You are a cold, cold person. Treemom made a morally sound decision for her own (wanted) child.

[formergothardite]

He said the place he supports gives diapers and sometimes helps with childcare. Jericho, as someone else pointed out, the government already has competion from private programs and private programs do worse.

Since you are up to answering the tough questions, answer mine about whether or not you find the way poor children were treated in the early 1900's acceptable and if not, why did you recommend that period as a time to send a single poor mother?

Edited to say: It is perfectly okay to admit that you didn't know that much about the time period when you said that would be a good time. I've read enough fundie blogs to know many people have the view that the past was all tea parties and lace.

[eohiken]

No, you can't get an abortion at the hospital. Used to be two doctors that would do them at the DECH (hospital in Fredericton), under 'approved circumstances' but some years ago those were pulled for budget concerns.

[Boogalou]

I believe it is God's place to decide when a a life should end, not man.

I think your choice of words is quite telling. I don't want men to decide, I want women to. Also, not everyone believes in God. There you go again, inflicting your beliefs on others.

[jericho]

I think your choice of words is quite telling. I don't want men to decide, I want women to. Also, not everyone believes in God. There you go again, inflicting your beliefs on others.

Man = Mankind.

[Constance Vigilance]

I by no means mean to trivialize your situation. But you are asking me a tough questions and you want an answer so I will give you one. I believe it is God's place to decide when a a life should end, not man. The only similarity of drowning an 11 year old and what you did is that I would consider them both murder. Not the same form of murder, but murder none the less. If abortion was illegal I would constitute your situation with murder charges. There, you got me to say it, and say what you will about me, but I do not hate you. I hate what you did because that child was not given a chance. I have heard story after story from mothers who were told there was no hope, but then a miracle happened. The child does not always live an absolutely normal life, but God has a plan for that life none the less.

So you want a child to be born, and live every second in screaming pain until it dies? I would never wish that on anyone. What a sick sick fuck you are.

[emmiedahl]

Could you tell me more about the services your CPC offers to poor women? I have asked a few times.

[Constance Vigilance]

Man = Mankind.

Not since 1950 jericho, keep up.

[Caribou]

I by no means mean to trivialize your situation. But you are asking me a tough questions and you want an answer so I will give you one. I believe it is God's place to decide when a a life should end, not man. The only similarity of drowning an 11 year old and what you did is that I would consider them both murder. Not the same form of murder, but murder none the less. If abortion was illegal I would constitute your situation with murder charges. There, you got me to say it, and say what you will about me, but I do not hate you. I hate what you did because that child was not given a chance. I have heard story after story from mothers who were told there was no hope, but then a miracle happened. The child does not always live an absolutely normal life, but God has a plan for that life none the less.

Staggering, absolutely staggering. How can anyone have such a mindset?

Wait, so a painless abortion before birth=murder and a painful protacted death after birth=ideal? You are a cold, cold person.

Yeah, that pretty much sums up how. Very well put.

[imathinker]

@ Jericho,

Why should only the mother and doctor be charged for murder? Why not the father? Do you advocate charging the father for murder as well? If not, why not? Should we put all women in chains in hospital beds to force them to have their unwanted babies? And if someone is forced to have a child that is unwanted what are the mechanisms in place to ensure that the child is cared for and loved, fed and educated? Parenting is not simply a matter of giving birth, that is just where parenting begins.

What about children born with significant birth defects who will require constant care? Do you think the government/society should take care of these children to help the parents financially and emotionally? Do you offer up your own home and care for those children since you care so very much about "life." Have you adopted any children? Have you donated to starving children in developing regions?

Also, what is your opinion on organ donations, etc? I have two kidneys. Should I be forced to donate one to someone who will die without a transplant? If not, why not? Under your belief that all life is sacred, everyone should donate at least one kidney, maybe one eye to someone who is blind (most people do have two eyes after all), maybe a leg (we have two). I think since you are so pro-life you should donate various body parts to ensure the "life" of another. Go on, we'll wait...

[Effie]

I think since you are so pro-life you should donate various body parts to ensure the "life" of another. Go on, we'll wait...

Seriously, you are awesome! Welcome to FJ. :) :dance:

[jericho]

Could you tell me more about the services your CPC offers to poor women? I have asked a few times.

Pregnancy testing, parenting classes, abstinence info, maternity clothing/baby clothing/supplies, "earn while you learn" program, ultrasound services, fetal development info, medical services, community resources, counseling services, adoption info, post-abortion services.

[formergothardite]

Seriously, you are awesome! Welcome to FJ. :) :dance:

Great question! If it is okay to force women to continue pregnancies to save a life, then it should be okay to force organ donations to save a life.

I can only assume Jericho's refusal to state that the living conditions of poor children in the early 1900's were horrible means he thinks they are okay and it horrifies me that people in this day and age feel that way.

[formergothardite]

Pregnancy testing, parenting classes, abstinence info, maternity clothing/baby clothing/supplies, "earn while you learn" program, ultrasound services, fetal development info, medical services, community resources, counseling services, adoption info, post-abortion services.

Well all that does crap when the child is three years old and the mom needs to provide food, clothing and shelter.

[emmiedahl]

Pregnancy testing, parenting classes, abstinence info, maternity clothing/baby clothing/supplies, "earn while you learn" program, ultrasound services, fetal development info, medical services, community resources, counseling services, adoption info, post-abortion services.

So, nothing that they can actually use to support a child. What kind of medical services? Do you employ a doctor?

"Earn while you learn"? Is that the trick where you have to sit through religion classes to get an old hand-me-down carseat?

[treemom]

I used to be prolife. Until just now, I didn't fully think about how offensive it is to compare a clump of cells to a child. The cells can't think or experience anything until the brain develops further. It seems silly to put its right to exist before the woman's rights.

Jericho, are you for providing services that will prevent sexually active people from getting pregnant, like free BC or sex education?

It doesn't offend me per se...it just seems absolutely bizarre that we can compare the two.