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Maxwell 57: Planning Mary's Wedding


Coconut Flan

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2 hours ago, allyisyourpally5 said:

I honestly just cannot imagine or even fathom being bound to all those rules at college…..who you can date, staff approval for dating and marriage…..I honestly just can’t believe these institutions exist. 
Just imagining myself at 18…..an adult, a legal adult, with those rules….no. No way.

That's the difference between you and an 18 year old fundy who wants to stay fundy. They've always had an external locus of control so even if those behaviors were what they wanted for themselves they still need the rules in place to make it happen. Me, I was 17 and determined to not be fundy, but I had no experience with making choices, so I just did All The Things I'd been told were sinful, even the really stupid couldagottenmekilledorworse ones.

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I disagree fundie kids need the rules, it's just what they've been conditioned to believe that the rules are normal and they should go along with them. Some of them may feel the rules are useful, but I think most of them accept that the older generation will make rules and that they have no choice but to agree. It still allows them more freedom than living at home and it will lead to an education and sometimes even a way out. 

 

 

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Spoiler

C726E7D4-90E4-4CD1-BBCC-1580A53C6339.thumb.png.0920c0c88acaad2c3e551b6edd253524.png

More sports with Anna. This time it is Intramural Dodgeball from the ABC fb page. 

 

Edited by Zee
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In a way, the rules have a function where there are lots of things "I" (a fundy student) wouldn't do anyways, so it's nice to know that nobody else will be doing them either, and that everybody is agreeable about these things as sort of 'group behaviour standards'. It's kind of, "We know we're doing the right things in the right ways because they seem good and they will be applied even-handedly."

It probably doesn't feel like control because it's more like a willing code-of-conduct, with the added bonus of oversight to 'keep you accountable' to your own commitments.

For example, if a fundy teen or young adult is already saying to themself, "I would never date anyone if my parents or other wise adults thought they were wrong for me." -- then a 'rule' that the dean must approve people's dating choices is just an aspect of 'how' they live out the values they already have but in a new environment. And it's also how they know that nobody else will be doing anything differently.

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These overbearing college conduct rules remind me of a local news story from the Pleistocene:

In 1971, the US age of majority (voting, drinking, marriage, signing contracts) was reduced from 21 to 18. (Yay for me—I had just turned 18!)

A local newscaster visited a dormitory at Wesleyan University in Middletown CT, ten miles from me. He expressed dismay that the young people in the dorm (I *think* it was women-only at the time) had no “house mother.” He asked one student, “Don’t you need an adult in residence to supervise you?” She emphatically replied, “Thank God they don’t!” 

The previous year, a friend was at Ohio Wesleyan. The freshman dorm consisted of a men’s wing and a women’s wing connected by a common area. The women—not the men—had a 10 PM curfew. They dealt with this by staging a sit-in in the common area, and the curfew was eliminated almost immediately.

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Mary must be too busy planning the wedding to play dodgeball. At least Sam and Anna are on the winning team.

2FDD0130-9B33-4724-88F5-72C09AF4FB6D.jpeg

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4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Mary must be too busy planning the wedding to play dodgeball. At least Sam and Anna are on the winning team.

2FDD0130-9B33-4724-88F5-72C09AF4FB6D.jpeg

I never thought if Anna as beautiful before - she seemed perfectly lovely as a person, but gawky.  Now, her face radiates joy and beauty. And not that it matters, but I don’t think the age gap shows very much at all between her tickling 30 and the youngsters in their late teens & early 20s.

What I’m trying to say is: She looks to be catching up on Enjoying Life as many people do in their late- and post-adolescent years. 
 

PS: Love y’all, but anybody wants to comment defensively or offensively on my wrong-headed ideas of beauty, etc., please know that I’m not interested and won’t engage. I meant what I said: Anna looks beautiful and joyful - sincerely - at last. Thank ya!

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Is Mary back at school or has she left to plan her wedding? I see pictures of Anna at school but lately I've seen no photos of Mary at school so I wondered

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7 hours ago, Hane said:

In 1971, the US age of majority (voting, drinking, marriage, signing contracts) was reduced from 21 to 18. (Yay for me—I had just turned 18!)

Same era here. Coed dorms & getting rid of in loco parentis house mothers for women had only started a year or two before then. 

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46 minutes ago, browngrl said:

Is Mary back at school or has she left to plan her wedding? I see pictures of Anna at school but lately I've seen no photos of Mary at school so I wondered

I imagine she would finish out the semester. She might just be too busy wedding planning to do the extra curricular activities. 

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On 4/15/2023 at 7:16 PM, IReallyAmHopewell said:

If Anna gets through that college without a husband .....No won't happen. They all get married! lol

Not necessarily. Her age isn't in her favor. Most 19-20yo guys are not looking for someone ten years their senior. Maybe someone has an older brother or cousin they could introduce her to? Or there's other nontraditional (older) male students there. But I really think right from the start Mary stood a better chance of finding someone based on her age.

On 4/18/2023 at 10:41 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I imagine she would finish out the semester. She might just be too busy wedding planning to do the extra curricular activities. 

Or she may be carrying an impossible courseload trying to either graduate with Sam, or get her degree requirements finished up before babies start arriving.

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1 minute ago, Bethy said:

Not necessarily. Her age isn't in her favor. Most 19-20yo guys are not looking for someone ten years their senior. Maybe someone has an older brother or cousin they could introduce her to? Or there's other nontraditional (older) male students there. But I really think right from the start Mary stood a better chance of finding someone based on her age.

I always figured she would get some classmates telling her she would be just perfect for an older brother. I think some fundies love playing matchmaker. 

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The last President's List, for those with the highest GPA, was back in January. It included both Mary, Anna and Samuel Hock. So at least that isn't something for the parents to complain about.

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3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I always figured she would get some classmates telling her she would be just perfect for an older brother. I think some fundies love playing matchmaker. 

Thing is, there aren't a whole lot of fundy male 30 YO virgins. Okay, okay, there are the Arndts and the Staddons. Anna deserves better. 

ETA: okay, maybe Jonathan Staddon. Right age, has his own business, lives in West VA.

Edited by Black Aliss
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1 hour ago, Black Aliss said:

Thing is, there aren't a whole lot of fundy male 30 YO virgins. Okay, okay, there are the Arndts and the Staddons. Anna deserves better. 

ETA: okay, maybe Jonathan Staddon. Right age, has his own business, lives in West VA.

I agree Anna can do better. I hope she finds someone like Kory after school. 

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I think fundie men aren’t required to be virgins. Yes, it’s heavily pushed. It’s taught that it’s best. But I think they are forgiven more easily for a past indiscretion than women. 

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14 hours ago, Bethy said:

Not necessarily. Her age isn't in her favor. 

Even Mary is about 5 years older than Sam.   Not a ton older, but still. 

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Those rules for the college seem pretty liberal and mild compared to the ones I saw from Bob Jones and such several years ago. They were much more restrictive and specific. I think most of those colleges are moving along with the times, and may have almost caught up to 1960 or so.

Does ABC have clothing and hair rules, too? Not sure if they still do it but when my friend was at BJU it was very strict - skirts only on campus for all women including staff (they eventually allowed female students to wear slacks on weekends, I think), skirts must touch the floor when kneeling, no slits in the skirts at all, etc. Men's hair couldn't touch the collar, no one could have any unnatural looking hair, nail polish must be natural, makeup must be light and natural. They've loosened those up slightly, but not by a ton. Also they had rules like no secular or contemporary Christian music of any kind was allowed on campus at all, only classical and hymns. No watching any movies at theaters at all (still current, except now it's allowed when home on some breaks). I think they had rules against headphones and earbuds, too, so you couldn't listen to anything privately. And many of their restrictions were expected to be applied at home in the summer, as well, since as a student of the college you could set a bad example back home if someone saw you at the movie theater and didn't know whether you went in the G rated kids' movie or the new R rated thriller. 

Bob Jones current rules bar ANY physical contact between male and female students on or off campus except side hugs for photos, only. Male and female students cannot be alone together in a room, ever.  Engaged couples may be alone together in a public place off-campus, but only with parental consent. But not at bars or taverns, naturally. No students can go to those. Also each student has to choose an approved church and have it verified by their parents and the school. Any TV, movie or video game must be rated PG or T or below. And must not contain rock music. They still have curfews and lights out times. Here's their handbook!

It was the super strict rules like that, that intrigued me into looking more into fundies in the first place. I think most of those colleges have loosened up (Bob Jones now allows interracial dating, for example) but ABC's rules seem to be normal if not light for that sort of college, IMO. 

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1 hour ago, kpmom said:

Even Mary is about 5 years older than Sam.   Not a ton older, but still. 

Is she really? Not doubting you, I just hadn't realized it or seen it discussed. 

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I think Sarah will encourage Anna (if Anna is interested) to explore on-line dating. It worked out so well for Sarah.  Or perhaps Kory has a friend to introduce Anna to.

Sarah is the living example to her sisters that you can move far away from Stevehovah Land and still lead a wonderful happy Christian life. Just not the stifled. restrictive, dour, miserable life Stevehovah enforces.

Edited by Red Hair, Black Dress
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3 hours ago, Sister Mozz said:

Is she really? Not doubting you, I just hadn't realized it or seen it discussed. 

Older fundie females marrying younger males has been happening a lot in the last few years. Denver Bontrager is around 4.5 years younger than his wife. And now his little brother is dating his wife’s sister. And she’s also around 4 or so years older. Some of the Morton men married women a few years older. Plus Jessa is older than Ben and Hannah is older than Jer Duggar.

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There have been photos of female students at ABC wearing jeans and other trousers, so they’re not strictly skirts-only. 

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From the ABC website: 

Quote

 

Men wear dress pants, collared shirts, and dress shoes to classes and chapel.

Ladies wear dress pants or knee-length skirts, blouses, and dress shoes or sandals to classes and chapel.

In the evening and off campus, feel free to dress casually.

 

 

5 hours ago, Sister Mozz said:
7 hours ago, kpmom said:

Even Mary is about 5 years older than Sam.   Not a ton older, but still. 

Is she really? Not doubting you, I just hadn't realized it or seen it discussed. 

Sam's facebook page says he was born in 1999. Mary was born in 1996. I think for all the Max girls they present as much younger than they really are because of their extreme sheltering. It probably wouldn't occur to a GYM that one of them was older than he assumed until well after God had laid it on his heart that this was the woman for them.

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I think someone mentioned that ABC used to be skirts only for classes but they changed the rules a few years ago. Now they can wear pants to class. 

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