Maxwell 57: Planning Mary's Wedding

[JermajestyDuggar]

Their dresses are way cuter than anything they wore in Maxhell. I’m glad they can finally express their own style. 

[postscript]

I see knees! And shoulders! And painted toenails! Not to mention genuine smiles. 

Hopefully Mary finishes her degree somehow. Samuel seems supportive, though I was hoping they would stay near the school until she finished. Perhaps she loaded up on credits this past year so she only has a few classes to go in order to graduate. 

I don't see Anna ever moving back home. She'll find a summer job or mission opportunity through the school and return to finish her degree. If a suitable young man hasn't shown up by graduation, I can see her working full time for the school. 

[kpmom]

I hope you’re right about Mary graduating, and Anna not moving back home. 
 

I’d love to see pictures of them both in their caps and gowns next spring. 🎓

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Unpopular opinion: I have mixed feelings about the Max daughters education. On the one hand, I think it's great they got out of the house, met new people, went to an accredited college. found friendship, love (in Mary's case), etc.

On the other hand, they're studying to be missionaries. I don't really believe in missionaries. My understanding is that the purpose of missionaries is to convert people. I don't want to be converted by anyone and I don't want other people to attempt to convert me. They don't seem to have practical training like nursing, etc. Even humanitarian missions can have downsides (link). The Maxwell/Hock mission work seems to involve conversion.

It's center to their beliefs that people who are Christian or the "right types" of Christian need to be saved. I don't think people should have to believe the same things or that we all have to belong to the same religion/church, etc. 

I still hope they graduate. I would be surprised if Anna doesn't finish her degree since she's in the final year. Mary may have more obstacles from marriage and probably motherhood.

[hoipolloi]

36 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

The Maxwell/Hock mission work seems to involve conversion.

Yes, from what I can see they are classic god-botherers in Uruguay and it's likely that Sam & Mary will be the same. 

I agree with you in general on Christian missions. I especially despise so-called missionaries who condition any assistance -- food, medical care, education -- on "accepting" Jesus. Then there are "church planting" missions which is what the elder Hocks seem to be doing. It's all about their egos and those of their supporters. I see no benefit to the people of Uruguay.

Re: the Maxwell daughters. As you say, it is great to see them thriving at ABC although the school is limiting academically. OTOH, they were never going to go to KU in any case so I am glad they seem to be out from under Stevehovahʻs control.

[Hellothere]

Do we know if Mary is seriously still bound on missionary work?  I could see her working with children in a Christian school, maybe as a teacher, or working in a business/ administrative capacity setting for a church or Christian school/ organization. Let Mary and her husband do the missionary thing (that seems to be the path his family members take) but Mary should explore more options!

[JermajestyDuggar]

Is it possible that Mary has on the job hours she can do in Kansas? Like a practicum?

[Bluebirdbluebell]

59 minutes ago, Hellothere said:

Do we know if Mary is seriously still bound on missionary work?  I could see her working with children in a Christian school, maybe as a teacher, or working in a business/ administrative capacity setting for a church or Christian school/ organization. Let Mary and her husband do the missionary thing (that seems to be the path his family members take) but Mary should explore more options!

This is what it says on her wedding website:

Quote

We are planning on living in the States for 3 years before we move to a foreign mission field. We will not be able to bring extra goods with us. Since we already have some core household necessities, our registry is small. We only want your presence; however, if you still desire to give a gift, we would appreciate money.

 

[kpmom]

ABC does have an elementary education degree. I could see Anna pursuing that. 

Yes, I agree, I don’t like the idea of missionaries and church plantings at all.  I do like the idea of Mary getting a degree from an accredited college, though.  It might come in handy in the future if life doesn’t work out the way she planned.  

 

[Hane]

I was pleasantly surprised to see that ABC is accredited, and that people who earn degrees in elementary education there would be certified to teach in public schools, not just private Christian ones. (Generally, this means that an education grad has the credentials for initial certification in the state where the college is located. My niece got her degree in New York, so she had to undergo a certification process in order to teach in Connecticut.)

[Xan]

5 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

On the other hand, they're studying to be missionaries. I don't really believe in missionaries.

In general, I agree.  What we seriously need less of in this world is god-botherers.  And no one needs to go around saying that they've got the only answers about eternal life.  However, I feel about the Maxwell women the way I feel about the Rodrigues children.  They had no options and now they've found a tiny escape hatch.  It wouldn't be what I'd want for myself or my kids but at least they're not dusting Steve's ceiling fans now.  I hate that Phillip Rodrigues went to a crappy little fake Bible college but at least it got him out of the house every day.  My bar is just set lower for the fundie offspring.

And the Maxwell women are now wearing dresses above the knee!  That just made me happy.  They've come a long way.  Steve must be furious.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

The idea of Steve furious about dresses above the knee and painted toenails (eye trap toenails!!!) makes me smile. 

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:51 AM, kpmom said:

Even Mary is about 5 years older than Sam.   Not a ton older, but still. 

I did not realise this. Interesting. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

30 minutes ago, Milly-Molly-Mandy said:

I did not realise this. Interesting. 

She's about 3 years older than him.

[DJ1234]

17 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Unpopular opinion: I have mixed feelings about the Max daughters education. On the one hand, I think it's great they got out of the house, met new people, went to an accredited college. found friendship, love (in Mary's case), etc.

On the other hand, they're studying to be missionaries. I don't really believe in missionaries. My understanding is that the purpose of missionaries is to convert people. I don't want to be converted by anyone and I don't want other people to attempt to convert me. They don't seem to have practical training like nursing, etc. Even humanitarian missions can have downsides (link). The Maxwell/Hock mission work seems to involve conversion.

It's center to their beliefs that people who are Christian or the "right types" of Christian need to be saved. I don't think people should have to believe the same things or that we all have to belong to the same religion/church, etc. 

I still hope they graduate. I would be surprised if Anna doesn't finish her degree since she's in the final year. Mary may have more obstacles from marriage and probably motherhood.

I tend to agree.  I am a(n early) retired university prof and I am very pro eduction, and in particular girls' education. For those of us in the non-fundy world, finishing a degree would make perfect sense. It would even be essential. We'd actively counsel women to defer marriage until they graduate (but in our world, most women aren't sprinting to the alter either).

But Mary didn't go to college for the reasons our children go to college - to develop critical thinking skills, prepare for graduate school, or jobs. Mary went to college to find a suitable marriage partner. Period. Mission accomplished. A degree, and freedom from her parents, was icing on the cake. Now that she will be suitably married, further education is probably seen as irrelevant, even an unnecessary expenditure for a young couple. Her job is to "helpmeet" her husband, bear children, and live a "godly life" within the straitjacket boundaries of her world. She does not need a degree to do any of these things and I would be surprised if she returned to school in the fall in any form (though I would love to be wrong).  

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by DJ1234

[HereticHick]

From the spring banquet.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Mary is 26. I guess I always assumed Sam was the typical age for his college year. Which would be 22. I imagine at the most, they are 4 years apart. But I would also believe it if someone said he was 23. The age difference really isn’t that much. 

[kpmom]

38 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

From the spring banquet.

Anna looks lovely in that picture. I’m loving her dress, too. 
 

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by kpmom
Corrected a sentence

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Steve must have had a stroke.

Anna is showing her collarbone AND her shoulders. Wearing an eye trap necklace!!!!!!! Suck it Stevehovah.

She looks lovely and oh so happy

[HereticHick]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Mary is 26. I guess I always assumed Sam was the typical age for his college year. Which would be 22. I imagine at the most, they are 4 years apart. But I would also believe it if someone said he was 23. The age difference really isn’t that much. 

On a Dec. 11, 2019 public post on his parent's Facebook page (Keith and Wendy Hock), they wished him a Happy 20th Birthday. So he will be 23 1/2 when he marries.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Mary is 26. I guess I always assumed Sam was the typical age for his college year. Which would be 22. I imagine at the most, they are 4 years apart. But I would also believe it if someone said he was 23. The age difference really isn’t that much. 

Earlier in this thread @Black Aliss said on his Facebook page says he was born in 1999. Depending on when his birthday is, that's makes him 23 or 24.

Editing to add that @HereticHick as more exact information and they posted about the same time I did.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Bluebirdbluebell

[browngrl]

21 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

We are planning on living in the States for 3 years before we move to a foreign mission field

I'm not thrilled with the idea of missionaries either but 3 years is a long time and lots of things can change. I'm hoping that life leads them another direction. Life far from family might be much less appealing if there are children to consider (provided that they are not like John Shrader)

On another note: Anna seems pretty happy where she is, but if a husband is what she wants I hope she follows Sarah lead and finds a partner by herself. 

[Zee]

Pictures from graduation are going up. Here is a relevant one.  Mary looks so cute. And the touching is a far cry from Christopher 

Spoiler

 

[MaryatHome]

On 5/7/2023 at 3:40 PM, hoipolloi said:

Yes, from what I can see they are classic god-botherers in Uruguay and it's likely that Sam & Mary will be the same. 

I agree with you in general on Christian missions. I especially despise so-called missionaries who condition any assistance -- food, medical care, education -- on "accepting" Jesus. Then there are "church planting" missions which is what the elder Hocks seem to be doing. It's all about their egos and those of their supporters. I see no benefit to the people of Uruguay.

Re: the Maxwell daughters. As you say, it is great to see them thriving at ABC although the school is limiting academically. OTOH, they were never going to go to KU in any case so I am glad they seem to be out from under Stevehovahʻs control.

Heck, they couldn't even attend the fine liberal arts college that is literally six minutes from the compound right there in Leavenworth.  Of course, it's run by the ebil Catholics, so there's that.  It's co-educational now, but when I attended (and here's where I give away my age) it was all women, with a few male day students, so a place for strong women to grow.  There are other religiously affiliated schools within driving distance, one is close to the southern escape compound (Olathe, KS, Mid-America Nazarene), and even the drive to Liberty, MO (William Jewell, with strong Baptist ties) is only about 35 minutes , if that was the concern...but it wasn't.  It was all about the control. 

[Caroline]

10 hours ago, DJ1234 said:

tend to agree.  I am a(n early) retired university prof and I am very pro eduction, and in particular girls' education. For those of us in the non-fundy world, finishing a degree would make perfect sense. It would even be essential. We'd actively counsel women to defer marriage until they graduate (but in our world, most women aren't sprinting to the alter either).

We encouraged our daughter to attend a women's LA college for lots of reasons. All of the reasons are the exact opposite of the reasons Mary and Anna went to ABC. We wanted her to experience a learning environment free from the immaturity of the boys she had encountered all her life in public school. Even in high school the young men she went to school with were not terribly driven academically, and she was looking for a change. She became a real thinker in her four years of college and met some women who are going to change the world in very positive ways. She acquired her MFA right after undergrad and is actively using both of the degrees she earned in her first professional job.  

While she was working on her second degree she met a young man who she spent two happy years with. She was glad to see that high school boys eventually catch up and grow up (Well, most of them anyway  ). Her goals right now involve learning to work as a professional, continuing to learn as much as possible, exploring the city where she lives and all that it offers, meeting people with the same interests and goals, and enjoying life as a 20 something. She may choose to marry some day and have a family, or she may not. It's her life, and she has to live it in the way that makes the most sense to her.  Parents like most of the fundies we talk about baffle me and just seem like people who need to control others rather than encourage their children to live their best lives.