Josh and Anna 57: Singing the I'm Stuck in the SHU Blues

[Jana814]

2 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I don’t even see how a program would work if he doesn’t admit guilt. He has to at least be willing to acknowledge the problem in order to work on it. 

I have to agree. I don’t think he will ever admit guilt. 

[Cam]

14 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I have to agree. I don’t think he will ever admit guilt. 

Well, publicly at least. In the private confines of a rehab program he might admit guilt in order to complete the requirement for release from prison. Or not. 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Cam

[Giraffe]

I’m convinced if he ever “repents” it will only be for his own benefits. He will never genuinely regret his actions. He’s the epitome of an evil human only being mad for getting caught. 

[Four is Enough]

On 8/16/2023 at 11:26 AM, FiveAcres said:

I don't believe any in-prison rehabilitation program will take him as long as he denies that he downloaded the materials. So he has over nine years of doing nothing. 

I had a son in prison. Competition is pretty fierce to get into programs. They are reserved for "good" prisoners, particularly those who are within a year of two of release. Not sure about whether he would need to "confess" or "show remorse" but I think it's likely needed. 

 

[Alysabeth]

Slightly different as I’m in the UK but I work for the probation service and we run three fairly new programmes for sex offenders (both in prison and the community); they are strengths based programmes and do not require participants to talk about their offending meaning they can deny their offence and still be eligible. The programmes do talk about areas of their lives that have caused problems and may have influenced their behaviour so there does need to be a willingness for them to talk about those problem areas in order for them to take part.

There are long waiting lists in prison and I find that most offenders have to do the programme after they’re released but someone serving a sentence as long as Josh would definitely have time to complete it in prison over here. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

5 hours ago, Alysabeth said:

Slightly different as I’m in the UK but I work for the probation service and we run three fairly new programmes for sex offenders (both in prison and the community); they are strengths based programmes and do not require participants to talk about their offending meaning they can deny their offence and still be eligible. The programmes do talk about areas of their lives that have caused problems and may have influenced their behaviour so there does need to be a willingness for them to talk about those problem areas in order for them to take part.

There are long waiting lists in prison and I find that most offenders have to do the programme after they’re released but someone serving a sentence as long as Josh would definitely have time to complete it in prison over here. 

What sort of strengths do the programs focus on? How does a strengths based program work for sexual abusers?

[Four is Enough]

The types of programs my son was talking about involved things like building arts, culinary arts, bookbinding and repair, things like that. These provide a steady income.. If there was counselling involved, I don' t know about it.

 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 8/21/2023 at 9:46 AM, Four is Enough said:

The types of programs my son was talking about involved things like building arts, culinary arts, bookbinding and repair, things like that. These provide a steady income.. If there was counselling involved, I don' t know about it.

 

If they are available at Josh’s prison he can learn how to make crackers AND sweep them!

[Hazelbunny]

On 9/1/2023 at 7:54 AM, Father Son Holy Goat said:

If they are available at Josh’s prison he can learn how to make crackers AND sweep them!

He could maybe learn how to make a broom to sweep up the crackers... 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

And since he's a pig, he can spill them.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Jill told her parents that they treated her worse than her “pedophile brother” in October 2017. They didn’t respond that he wasn’t a pedophile (something that we were still debating on FJ then). Jill didn’t know about the CSAM that Josh was ultimately convicted of at that point, which makes me think that there may be more behavior that hasn’t been made public yet.

Thinking about Jill and Jinger’s books and the documentary, it seems clearer than ever that Jim Bob and Michelle went all-in on IBLP in part because they were hoping that God would change Josh, or failing that, that the insanely strict rules would keep the girls safe from him. Instead it made him worse and everything spiraled. I wonder what would have happened if he hadn’t been a pedophile, or if they hadn’t gotten into a cult. 

When recounting Josh’s trial, Jill says, “It was increasingly clear that the safest place for Josh, and those around him, was prison.” The bit about Josh’s safety makes me think that if he ever tries to live on the Duggar compound again, he won’t live much longer. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

2 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

When recounting Josh’s trial, Jill says, “It was increasingly clear that the safest place for Josh, and those around him, was prison.” The bit about Josh’s safety makes me think that if he ever tries to live on the Duggar compound again, he won’t live much longer. 

It could have also been able keeping Josh safe from himself. Truely, he is safer in prison with no internet access. 

[Cam]

4 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

.When recounting Josh’s trial, Jill says, “It was increasingly clear that the safest place for Josh, and those around him, was prison.” The bit about Josh’s safety makes me think that if he ever tries to live on the Duggar compound again, he won’t live much longer. 

I haven’t read the book, but it sounds like it means with Josh in prison, the hoards of children always surrounding the Duggars are a hell of a lot safer, especially his own.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Cam

[viii]

If Josh left prison today and moved back to the big house, absolutely not a single hair on his head would come to harm. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

3 hours ago, Cam said:

I haven’t read the book, but it sounds like it means with Josh in prison, the hoards of children always surrounding the Duggars are a hell of a lot safer, especially his own.

Yes, of course, but she says “the safest place for Josh AND for those around him” so it’s two thoughts.

[Giraffe]

8 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Jill told her parents that they treated her worse than her “pedophile brother” in October 2017. They didn’t respond that he wasn’t a pedophile (something that we were still debating on FJ then). Jill didn’t know about the CSAM that Josh was ultimately convicted of at that point, which makes me think that there may be more behavior that hasn’t been made public yet.

This is stomach churning. 
 

Anyone recall if Derick expressed interest in becoming a lawyer before he and Jill got married?

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I wonder if Josh has read the book. Moreover, I wonder if any other inmates have read it. I’m sure the contents will reach the prison somehow. 

[Cam]

7 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I wonder if Josh has read the book. Moreover, I wonder if any other inmates have read it. I’m sure the contents will reach the prison somehow. 

Oh wow. Inmates reading Counting the Cost is a thought that had not occurred to me. I’m sure some have or will. Interesting! 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Cam

[viii]

I don’t think the book expose anything about Josh that the other inmates wouldn’t already know. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by viii

[TN-peach]

11 hours ago, viii said:

If Josh left prison today and moved back to the big house, absolutely not a single hair on his head would come to harm. 

And he would be treated like the prodigal child that Jill referenced in the book.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

1 minute ago, TN-peach said:

And he would be treated like the prodigal child that Jill referenced in the book.

By his parents, yes. I think that the CSAM evidence at the trial changed the way his siblings and their spouses view him. Maybe they would just refuse to take their kids to the big house, but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone took matters into their own hands. 

On another thread, there was a mention of the rumor that Jim Bob and Josh went to a strip club. It occurred to me that Jim Bob might have been trying to cure Josh’s pedophilia by showing him naked adult women.

[Queen Of Hearts]

51 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

By his parents, yes. I think that the CSAM evidence at the trial changed the way his siblings and their spouses view him. 

I think Michelle is pretty much done with Josh, too.  I got that impression by her lack of support/showing up at his trial. But after reading Jill's book and hearing some of Michelle's reactions to Josh I feel even more strongly that she is pretty disgusted with him.

[viii]

I definitely think his siblings and perhaps even his mother view him quite differently now, but I think it's such a huge stretch to assume one of the siblings would take matters into their own hands. I just don't ever see that happening. 

[Cam]

5 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I think Michelle is pretty much done with Josh, too.  I got that impression by her lack of support/showing up at his trial. But after reading Jill's book and hearing some of Michelle's reactions to Josh I feel even more strongly that she is pretty disgusted with him.

Good god, I sure hope so! She should be outraged. I would like to think that she finally saw what a fake he is, and realized all the many times he duped her, probably with big crocodile tears. Maybe she finally had enough of JB telling her they had to give him a second, third, fourth, infinite amount of chances. As a mother of 19 kids and growing number of grandchildren, she should be outraged. She should wonder how much Josh got away with while she was checked out mentally. Not sure if any of this actually happened, but she should have reevaluated her entire relationship with Josh. She did write a letter to the judge on his behalf, but didn’t attend trial. So who knows. Maybe JB insisted or his lawyers heavily suggested she at least write the letter.

[fluffernutter]

Jill portrayed her mom in a much more loving way than I ever imagined Michelle to be. I wonder if Michelle is now questioning everything. The amount of kids, the passes Josh kept getting, the ineffective "therapy" he got every time he fucked up, allowing her kids and grandkids to be around him, the way JB handled the finances, the tv show, on and on... if she has the self-awareness to bear some responsibility, she must be feeling guilty. And could she be pissed as hell at JB? Or is she too immersed in the kool-aid and still sing-songy sweet? I 100% don't think it will ever happen, but imagine if Michelle drop-miked her way out of the whole shit-storm, left him, and got herself therapy.