Josh and Anna 57: Singing the I'm Stuck in the SHU Blues

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 7/27/2023 at 11:58 PM, ifosterkittens said:

I agree in general I'm not a fan of smear campaign ads, but I will make an exception for one that smears the Duggars. 

Is pointing out the company someone keeps really a smear though? If someone hangs out with January 6th insurrectionists it says something about them too.

[marmalade]

Smuggar lost his appeal. Sorry I can't link the court docs, maybe someone else can. 

[Jana814]

12 minutes ago, marmalade said:

Smuggar lost his appeal. Sorry I can't link the court docs, maybe someone else can. 

That’s the best news ever. I didn’t think he was going to win. 

[Cheetah]

48 minutes ago, marmalade said:

Smuggar lost his appeal. Sorry I can't link the court docs, maybe someone else can. 

See if this works (I got the link from the reddit post about it) - http://media.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/23/08/222178P.pdf

[FiveAcres]

8 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

See if this works (I got the link from the reddit post about it) - http://media.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/23/08/222178P.pdf

It worked fine for me. Thank you for posting the link.

[Idlewild]

Is this the end of the line, appeals wise? Is there an automatic right to appeal this in US law? 

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, Jana814 said:

That’s the best news ever. I didn’t think he was going to win. 

It is a great way to start the week! I just wish I could have seen the look on his face when he found out. 

[Antipatriarch]

1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

Is this the end of the line, appeals wise? Is there an automatic right to appeal this in US law? 

In the U.S., appealing to the first level in the court system is "by right". Once you lose there, appealing to higher levels is subject to the court refusing to hear it.

[grateful3]

Link doesn't work for me. It appears to open, then I have a blank screen?

I'm sure if I practice patience and stop reading FJ while at work the truth shall be revealed 

[ADoyle90815]

If the higher federal courts refuse to hear his appeal, he's going to have to serve his term in prison. I only wish I could have seen his and Boob's faces when the appeal was denied. After all, the federal court system doesn't file charges unless they have an airtight case and do everything by the book to make it harder to get an appeal to be successful. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by ADoyle90815

[SoSoNosy]

The news showed up on my local TV channel website, so I'm sure it is everywhere.

The link worked for me, and showed the actual appeal.

Edited August 7, 2023 by SoSoNosy

[postscript]

Not an expert in criminal law, so I can’t recall if he’s got a discretionary appeal to the full appeals court panel, or if his next step is to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. Either way, they aren’t obligated to accept his appeal, and it’s unlikely either the appeals court or the Supremes would do so. They have better things to do with their time. 

Josh once expressed interest in going to law school. Since he’s stuck in federal prison for the next several years, now would be an ideal time to obtain that college degree Jim Bob denied him. He could even attend law school, assuming he could get admitted (some prisoners do). He’s unlikely to pass any state bar’s character and fitness exam, meaning he couldn’t take the bar or practice, but he might learn something about the laws he’s so fond or flouting. 

[ifosterkittens]

I know some people are desperate for a jailhouse lawyer, but I just don't see Josh Duggar being in demand. What type of education/skill/trade can he learn/participate in prison that would translate into an actual job once he gets out of prison? 

[AussieKrissy]

5 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

It is a great way to start the week! I just wish I could have seen the look on his face when he found out. 

or the look on boobs face when he spent all that money for naught..

Is boob up for more money or is this the end of the line... 

Edit to see the answer for the appeal

Also do we think this is the reason Amy is being interviewed to spread god's shinning light aka her opinion on all this for Daily Fail 

Edited August 8, 2023 by AussieKrissy
add stuff

[anjulibai]

3 hours ago, postscript said:

Not an expert in criminal law, so I can’t recall if he’s got a discretionary appeal to the full appeals court panel, or if his next step is to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. Either way, they aren’t obligated to accept his appeal, and it’s unlikely either the appeals court or the Supremes would do so. They have better things to do with their time. 

Josh once expressed interest in going to law school. Since he’s stuck in federal prison for the next several years, now would be an ideal time to obtain that college degree Jim Bob denied him. He could even attend law school, assuming he could get admitted (some prisoners do). He’s unlikely to pass any state bar’s character and fitness exam, meaning he couldn’t take the bar or practice, but he might learn something about the laws he’s so fond or flouting. 

He could probably become a paralegal. My cousin who is serving life is doing that. 

[Gobsmacked]

2 hours ago, ifosterkittens said:

I know some people are desperate for a jailhouse lawyer, but I just don't see Josh Duggar being in demand. What type of education/skill/trade can he learn/participate in prison that would translate into an actual job once he gets out of prison? 

He could learn plumbing, maybe train to be an electrician? Something that would provide a regular income. . 

[Giraffe]

I’ll be shocked if JoshUa gets any kind of additional education while he’s in prison. The only curiosity he’s displayed in life is what landed him in federal prison to begin with. He’s spent his teen years and his adulthood with people making excuses for him. I doubt he’ll take responsibility for his life now. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Giraffe

[marmalade]

33 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

I’ll be shocked if JoshUa got any kind of additional education while he’s in prison. The only curiosity he’s displayed in life is what landed him in federal prison to begin with. He’s spent his teen years and his adulthood with people making excuses for him. I doubt he’ll take responsibility for his life now. 

I agree. He's just going to sit on his lazy ass and whine about his failed appeal. 

[sndral]

9 hours ago, Idlewild said:

Is this the end of the line, appeals wise? Is there an automatic right to appeal this in US law? 

So I skimmed the F.2d opinion, the defense raised 3 issues:

1) The trial Judge ruled that the defense could call the former employee, but would not let the defense impeach him w/ his prior sex crime conviction because of the risk it would confuse/prejudice the jury, when barred from introducing that prior conviction the defense opted not to call that witness at all. Impeachment w/ a prior felony is allowed because it’s relevant to witnesses credibility, but it’s well w/in the Judge’s discretion to rule the prior can’t come in if it’s more prejudicial than probative as the Judge ruled in this case. Pretty solid legal basis for the ruling in this case IMO.

2) The defense correctly lost its motion to suppress Josh’s incriminating statements because Josh was never in custody…duh. 

3) The trial court correctly found that the prosecution’s expert was qualified to testify on the matters he testified on & was also correct in barring the defense expert from testifying on data she hadn’t analyzed.

So, those are the issues raised on appeal by the defense. They lost. Their only next step is to petition.

They could petition for a rehearing en banc of the 8th circuit - en banc means all the 8th circuit Justices take a look at a case already decided by the usual panel of 3 Justices, which is extremely rare & only occurs if there’s a question of exceptional importance or an issue of uniformity w/in the circuit - neither applicable here.

Or they could petition the U.S. Supreme Court for a writ of certiorari. The U.S. Supreme Court gets somewhere around 8,000 - 10,000 petitions for writs of cert. per year, they issue opinions in about 100 of them - so Josh has about a 1% chance the U.S. Supreme Court would take a look at his case if his attorneys petition. I’d say his chances are even lower, the law’s not really on his side IMO.

Edited August 8, 2023 by sndral

[AussieKrissy]

1 hour ago, sndral said:

So I skimmed the F.2d opinion, the defense raised 3 issues:

1) The trial Judge ruled that the defense could call the former employee, but would not let the defense impeach him w/ his prior sex crime conviction because of the risk it would confuse/prejudice the jury, when barred from introducing that prior conviction the defense opted not to call that witness at all. Impeachment w/ a prior felony is allowed because it’s relevant to witnesses credibility, but it’s well w/in the Judge’s discretion to rule the prior can’t come in if it’s more prejudicial than probative as the Judge ruled in this case. Pretty solid legal basis for the ruling in this case IMO.

2) The defense correctly lost its motion to suppress Josh’s incriminating statements because Josh was never in custody…duh. 

3) The trial court correctly found that the prosecution’s expert was qualified to testify on the matters he testified on & was also correct in barring the defense expert from testifying on data she hadn’t analyzed.

So, those are the issues raised on appeal by the defense. They lost. Their only next step is to petition.

They could petition for a rehearing en banc of the 8th circuit - en banc means all the 8th circuit Justices take a look at a case already decided by the usual panel of 3 Justices, which is extremely rare & only occurs if there’s a question of exceptional importance or an issue of uniformity w/in the circuit - neither applicable here.

Or they could petition the U.S. Supreme Court for a writ of certiorari. The U.S. Supreme Court gets somewhere around 8,000 - 10,000 petitions for writs of cert. per year, they issue opinions in about 100 of them - so Josh has about a 1% chance the U.S. Supreme Court would take a look at his case if his attorneys petition. I’d say his chances are even lower, the law’s not really on his side IMO.

thanks for all that, that was awesome

Do you think his d celebrity status will help him and that Anna and boob possibly trying to rally the posses and getting the public leghumpers to petition (I don't know who or even if this would be an option) for the supreme court to look at his case?

Is that something that could be an option that may work for them? if so I can see that happening, I mean Anna's "there's more to the story" post really worked (sarcasm).

I hope I wasn't as clear as mud 

[sndral]

5 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

thanks for all that, that was awesome

Do you think his d celebrity status will help him and that Anna and boob possibly trying to rally the posses and getting the public leghumpers to petition (I don't know who or even if this would be an option) for the supreme court to look at his case?

Is that something that could be an option that may work for them? if so I can see that happening, I mean Anna's "there's more to the story" post really worked (sarcasm).

I hope I wasn't as clear as mud 

No, his celebrity status shouldn’t matter, lots of famous/influential people get convicted (or plead) and have to do their time. The only basis for the court to hear his case would be that the trial Judge made a mistake in admitting or not admitting evidence or in the jury instructions or something like that.

 

[Cam]

6 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Do you think his d celebrity status will help him and that Anna and boob possibly trying to rally the posses and getting the public leghumpers to petition (I don't know who or even if this would be an option) for the supreme court to look at his case?

Is that something that could be an option that may work for them? if so I can see that happening, I mean Anna's "there's more to the story" post really worked (sarcasm).

I hope I wasn't as clear as mud 

I don’t see Anna rallying any troops. She’s raising seven kids. I bet JB has lost interest in Josh’s case, too. I also bet JB wasn’t too surprised that the appeal was lost. He’s had some time to come to terms with the whole Josh mess and he might even be at a place where he figures Josh can just do his time and JB can move on to other things he’d rather be doing. 

I would love to learn if JB and Michele ever visit Josh in prison, and how often Anna goes to see him.

[Coconut Flan]

I hope JB has realized that further attempts for a reversal of Josh's conviction would be simply throwing money away and would keep the issue in the public eye longer.  

[TN-peach]

8 hours ago, sndral said:

No, his celebrity status shouldn’t matter, lots of famous/influential people get convicted (or plead) and have to do their time. The only basis for the court to hear his case would be that the trial Judge made a mistake in admitting or not admitting evidence or in the jury instructions or something like that.

 

SCOTUS would only hear the case if there was a "controversy" with the law.  Say there were two different circuits interpreting the same law differently - that's not the case here.  There is no circuit split here.  Also, there really is no issue of first impression or something super unusual about his trial.  This was a very normal trial.  The laws he was convicted under aren't vague or overly broad, there were no real constitutional issues raised (he tried to raise the issue of his statements to LE but he wasn't in custody so that's a no-go).  

[Alisamer]

18 hours ago, postscript said:

Josh once expressed interest in going to law school. Since he’s stuck in federal prison for the next several years, now would be an ideal time to obtain that college degree Jim Bob denied him. He could even attend law school, assuming he could get admitted (some prisoners do). He’s unlikely to pass any state bar’s character and fitness exam, meaning he couldn’t take the bar or practice, but he might learn something about the laws he’s so fond or flouting. 

It would be good for him to spend time educating himself. He's got nothing but time.

17 hours ago, ifosterkittens said:

I know some people are desperate for a jailhouse lawyer, but I just don't see Josh Duggar being in demand. What type of education/skill/trade can he learn/participate in prison that would translate into an actual job once he gets out of prison? 

It looks like where he is has continuing education classes:

Quote

A parenting program and Adult Continuing Education (ACE) classes are also available. Current ACE classes include:

Drafting Technology

African American History

Creative Writing

Introduction to the Law Library

Real Estate

American Civil War

Everyday Math

Science

Criminal Justice

Financial Self-Defense

And also "Advanced Occupational Education":

Quote

Seagoville Federal Prison offers advanced occupational education in the following areas:

Auto Mechanic

Automotive Technician

Computer Graphics and Design

Construction Tech

Core Construction

HVAC

Landscape Design

Turfgrass

And I think he could also take college correspondence courses while there, though JimBoob would have to pay for those. So it's entirely possible he could get a degree or learn a trade while inside, if he made the effort to do so.  

The fact is, the way things are for him right now - Anna at home patiently waiting, parents still supportive-ish - he could very easily come out of prison and go on a church speaking tour or something talking about how he's "repented and reformed" and how despite growing up in a good family he "sinned" anyway. Or, he could take the "I'm innocent, really!" track and go around talking about that. Get Jinger's ghostwriter to help him with a book, make the rounds of the tabloid and right wing media, and he could capitalize on the "persecuted Christian" or the "Reformed and repented born-again-again Christian" angle for at least a year or two.