Josh and Anna 55: Settling in at Seagoville

[Sullie06]

On 7/6/2022 at 9:07 AM, Coconut Flan said:

It doesn't work that way for drugs that are legal now.  You can't just request and get all the pain killers you want, no one is funding marijuana,  I think people are seeing that as a pie in the sky type thing that insurance simply will not fund.  There will be caps and limits in the US just like there are for almost all drugs.  I hate it sometimes that I was born practical, but so it is.  

I'm not saying we need to put people in prison, but that legalizing would not mean just trot in the doctor's office and get all the whatever you want.  There would be limits and conditions in the US just based on our healthcare structure.  

Truth.

My 9 year old son takes a stimulant medication for his ADHD and it has been a nightmare. First they tried to deny his need for the medication and wanted him to try 3 other medications before they would approve and his pediatrician had to appeal it and do an appeal hearing. All the while we were paying out of pocket exorbitant monthly payments (hundreds of dollars a month). Then once they did cover it, filling it has been a nightmare. He once had to go 3 days without it because they had entered the fill date wrong at the pharmacy. Also, his doctor won't just raise his dose because we want her to. And if she does we have to once again get approval from insurance. 

The idea that they can legalize Methamphetamine or Crack or Heroin and just have anyone stroll into a doctor and say "give me this medication at this dose" is absurd. It's not how it works and even with insurance co-pays some medications are extremely expensive so people with active addiction could still be living in poverty and still be seeking medications on the street. 

[feministxtian]

52 minutes ago, Sullie06 said:

My 9 year old son takes a stimulant medication for his ADHD and it has been a nightmare.

Every month when I get my Adderall refilled I go through the same shit. I had to change pharmacies because the one at the first store felt the need to tell me every damn month that if I had Jesus, I wouldn't need the Adderall or psych meds. I'm tired of some third party having the ability to second guess my doctor. My psychiatrist has ALL my mental health records. She knows exactly what my diagnoses are. What makes an insurance company think they know better. 

Oh, if you DO have problems w/your insurance company, ask who is reviewing the records. Usually it's an RN (at best). Demand to have the records reviewed by the proper specialist (at their expense). Did that with my Mr. A book (no joke, the records at that time came in at 250 pages) of his medical record was transmitted to the fucking disability insurance company. The nurse that reviewed his records said that she didn't believe that Chronic Pancreatitis was that bad and he needed to get his butt back to work. I demanded they have a qualified, board certified GI doc to review the records b/c the RN didn't know shit from shinola. The decision was reversed in a heartbeat. Be proactive, assertive and educate yourself. Odds are you know more about the particular disease, etc. than the idiots at the insurance company. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

14 hours ago, Dandruff said:

But we do require licensure, registration, inspections, and insurance or payment of a fee.  Perhaps these protections could be adapted for recreational drug use?

Absolutely yes. I hate me making it sound like I think street drugs aren't dangerous. I am strongly of the opinion we minimize the dangers of alcohol. 

[Antimony]

8 hours ago, IsmeWeatherwax said:

Mind you here in UK they dont like giving hospice patients too much morphine, you know in case they get addicted... 🙄

This is weird. When my father was on home hospice (US), they left us with a bunch of liquid morphine, excess, even after they switched to crushed Dilaudid. Absolutely nobody checked in that we destroyed these drugs post-death, they were far more than we could have used  for him (I know some people are more agitated during death, but we were stocked). 

He was going to die within a few weeks, though. I wonder if it's different for long-term hospice. 

[feministxtian]

3 minutes ago, Antimony said:

When my father was on home hospice (US), they left us with a bunch of liquid morphine, excess, even after they switched to crushed Dilaudid. Absolutely nobody checked in that we destroyed these drugs post-death, they were far more than we could have used  for him (I know some people are more agitated during death, but we were stocked). 

I had enough morphine and Atavan to stock a pharmacy. Used the Atavan quite a bit because he'd get agitated or seize and the Atavan would calm him down. Didn't really need the morphine. Nobody checked if I'd properly disposed of it (I did). When he went into the inpatient facility, they didn't have to give him any meds because he was comatose. 

[FiveAcres]

4 minutes ago, Antimony said:

This is weird. When my father was on home hospice (US), they left us with a bunch of liquid morphine, excess, even after they switched to crushed Dilaudid. Absolutely nobody checked in that we destroyed these drugs post-death, they were far more than we could have used  for him (I know some people are more agitated during death, but we were stocked). 

He was going to die within a few weeks, though. I wonder if it's different for long-term hospice. 

One of my brothers-in-law brought my mother-in-law to his house for her last few days. He is a physician, and interacted with the hospice physician. I seem to recollect that after my mother-in-law passed, the hospice organization came to the house, picked up the equipment, and conducted an inventory of the remaining drugs and picked those up as well. 

 

[HeartsAFundie]

2 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

This right here! I live in a state where Marijuana is legal and people still chose to buy their marijuana on the street because it's cheaper and there is more availability of strains. In terms of probation, you have to have a medical marijuana card in order to use while on supervision, in our jurisdiction. But most people don't even want to go through the process because they are just going to continue to use street bud. 

Your comment reminds me of something one of my son's friends told him.  The friend had gotten his hands on some medical marijuana and told my son that the medical marijuana gave him nowhere near the high the street stuff did.  To be fair, this was before recreational marijuana became legal in my state and we now have dispensaries all over the place, but I would imagine the sentiment still holds true.    Legal dispensaries won't make the street stuff go away.   

[Antimony]

17 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

One of my brothers-in-law brought my mother-in-law to his house for her last few days. He is a physician, and interacted with the hospice physician. I seem to recollect that after my mother-in-law passed, the hospice organization came to the house, picked up the equipment, and conducted an inventory of the remaining drugs and picked those up as well. 

 

We just had nurses. They gave us a destruction kit but never...checked that we used it. It all seemed very strange to me. 

[Coconut Flan]

3 hours ago, Antimony said:

He was going to die within a few weeks, though. I wonder if it's different for long-term hospice. 

Apparently not.  Hospice gives my mom lots of drugs and keeps pain meds filled.  No one there has ever mentioned anything except a pain free, worry free death.  Mom is coming up on her one year anniversary on hospice.  I just talked to her nurse about an hour ago.  She agrees mom is one of the slowest progressing cases she's seen.  

[Sullie06]

3 hours ago, feministxtian said:

Every month when I get my Adderall refilled I go through the same shit. I had to change pharmacies because the one at the first store felt the need to tell me every damn month that if I had Jesus, I wouldn't need the Adderall or psych meds. I'm tired of some third party having the ability to second guess my doctor. My psychiatrist has ALL my mental health records. She knows exactly what my diagnoses are. What makes an insurance company think they know better. 

Oh, if you DO have problems w/your insurance company, ask who is reviewing the records. Usually it's an RN (at best). Demand to have the records reviewed by the proper specialist (at their expense). Did that with my Mr. A book (no joke, the records at that time came in at 250 pages) of his medical record was transmitted to the fucking disability insurance company. The nurse that reviewed his records said that she didn't believe that Chronic Pancreatitis was that bad and he needed to get his butt back to work. I demanded they have a qualified, board certified GI doc to review the records b/c the RN didn't know shit from shinola. The decision was reversed in a heartbeat. Be proactive, assertive and educate yourself. Odds are you know more about the particular disease, etc. than the idiots at the insurance company. 

Yeah it's insane. He sees his pediatrician and a behavioral therapist who are on the same page about his Vyvanse. We tried Adderall first and it made him aggressive and he lost 5 pounds in a week. The insurance tried to tell us we had to leave him on the Adderall for a month, try another stimulant for a month, try a non stimulant for a month and then they would approve the Vyvanse. His doctor was "hold my beer" more or less. 

I did know that trick about the insurance company. My husband worked in an OR for 12 years and now he does IT for the hospital and he tells people that secret all the time. 

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I'm beginning to wonder if you've ever been around an addict. They do not remain accustomed to lower doses. It takes more and more to maintain the original high.

Yes, I have known addicts. Alcoholics also tend to want more alcohol over time, yet alcohol is legal. Alcoholism, like addictions to other drugs, is progressive. We just pretend alcohol is not a drug. 
  As I have said before, nothing is gained by making drugs illegal. It should be a health care matter, not a criminal one. 
   

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

I have to respectfully disagree. Marijuana is legal here, it can be legally obtained at dispensaries by anyone over the age of 21. It is illegal to sell or grow without a license still. However, there is still a huge street market for marijuana and people still chose to get their drugs off the street. There is also a market for non-state regulated cigarettes here too. 

Sure. Because it’s cheaper. That has to change. It isn’t inherently more expensive to grow legal weed. It has to be priced to compete with what’s sold on the street. The legal market will thrive if wholesalers can buy wherever the price is right. The legal market is young, and with more licensed dispensaries some will see the advantages of pricing to compete. It’s early yet. We also have to avoid regulations and taxes that make legal weed expensive. (Sometimes libertarians are right!) We haven’t really committed to legal marijuana yet. 
  But your observations are accurate, and present a problem for sure. My biggest concern is that people will see what you see, that legalization isn’t killing the illegal market and conclude that it can’t.  And that’s only true if we let it be. 
  And we ought to be able to grow it without a license. You know, like carrots. 

[Jackie3]

On 7/6/2022 at 6:07 AM, Coconut Flan said:

I'm not saying we need to put people in prison, but that legalizing would not mean just trot in the doctor's office and get all the whatever you want. 

 

13 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

The idea that they can legalize Methamphetamine or Crack or Heroin and just have anyone stroll into a doctor and say "give me this medication at this dose" is absurd.

Doctors are only going to give you what is medically necessary. They know, quite well, when someone is lying about their "back pain." They even have a database where they can check on the meds a patient has received from any doctor. If you got narcotics yesterday at ER  #1, the doctor at ER #2 can easily find this out. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Jackie3

[Jackie3]

On 7/6/2022 at 12:23 PM, Antimony said:

I am told that the restaurant industry only really functions because of functional dependency on drugs. (Source: Statistics, but also my roommate has been both chef and server.) 

Is your roommate really a "source" like the NYtimes? I'd say that was anecdotal evidence. Your roommate is a sample of 1.

I have many friends who work (or worked) in the restaurant industry and they have seen a lot of things, but not drugs. I'm sure there are drugs in restaurant kitchens, but I wouldn't say the industry is wholly dependent on them (which is essentially what you are saying). 

[indianabones]

13 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

My 9 year old son takes a stimulant medication for his ADHD and it has been a nightmare. First they tried to deny his need for the medication and wanted him to try 3 other medications before they would approve and his pediatrician had to appeal it and do an appeal hearing. All the while we were paying out of pocket exorbitant monthly payments (hundreds of dollars a month). Then once they did cover it, filling it has been a nightmare. He once had to go 3 days without it because they had entered the fill date wrong at the pharmacy. Also, his doctor won't just raise his dose because we want her to. And if she does we have to once again get approval from insurance. 

I got TOLD OFF today by a pharmacist over the phone for trying to switch pharmacies with my Vyvanse prescription. Pharmacists (and my insurance company) constantly make me feel like I'm a drug addict for just being on it.

And thank God for insurance and coupons from the pharmaceutical company- if I was paying full price out of pocket, it would be $400 a month rather than $30.

[Jackie3]

On 6/28/2022 at 7:27 PM, noseybutt said:

I think some functions of government should never be privatized.

It's funny that privatization is suddenly the bad guy. The government tends to be slow, bureaucratic and full of red tape. Visit your local DMV! Working with the government can be mind-numbingly crazy. 

 

 

[Melissa1977]

12 hours ago, HeartsAFundie said:

Your comment reminds me of something one of my son's friends told him.  The friend had gotten his hands on some medical marijuana and told my son that the medical marijuana gave him nowhere near the high the street stuff did.  To be fair, this was before recreational marijuana became legal in my state and we now have dispensaries all over the place, but I would imagine the sentiment still holds true.    Legal dispensaries won't make the street stuff go away.   

Legal marijuana is designed to help with pain, it is not a recreational drug. Street one is the one that makes you high. But even with the street one, there are a lot of different especies, some cause a "higher high" than others. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

14 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

Truth.

My 9 year old son takes a stimulant medication for his ADHD and it has been a nightmare. First they tried to deny his need for the medication and wanted him to try 3 other medications before they would approve and his pediatrician had to appeal it and do an appeal hearing. All the while we were paying out of pocket exorbitant monthly payments (hundreds of dollars a month). Then once they did cover it, filling it has been a nightmare. He once had to go 3 days without it because they had entered the fill date wrong at the pharmacy. Also, his doctor won't just raise his dose because we want her to. And if she does we have to once again get approval from insurance. 

The idea that they can legalize Methamphetamine or Crack or Heroin and just have anyone stroll into a doctor and say "give me this medication at this dose" is absurd. It's not how it works and even with insurance co-pays some medications are extremely expensive so people with active addiction could still be living in poverty and still be seeking medications on the street. 

Even non addictive meds can be impossible to get too. I’m on day 2 without anti depressants because my insurance has decided not to cover it for whatever bullshit reason they have this time. 

[CarrotCake]

I live in a country (the Netherlands) where marijuana can be freely bought by everyone over 18 (up to a max per day). As far as I know there is basically no business in selling it outside of the official channels except for the few people who buy it there and then resell to minors.

However, to really get it out of the criminal system, the growing also has to be legal, which it is not here. So there is still a lot of criminal activity behind the legal shops. Officially, you can only have a few plants per household for your own use but it is illegal to buy/sell large quantities. So the shops have to engage in illegal activities (buying) to continue their tollerated activities (selling).

I say tollerated because also the selling in coffeeshos (and growing for own use) are officially illegal but are being tollerated so you cannot be prosecuted for it.

It is a really strange system so there are discussions on living out licenses to some 'farms'. I hope they do soon because even though for the general public there is no criminal activity in buying and using marijuana, there is still crime on the streets within the supply chain.

[Mama Mia]

5 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

I live in a country (the Netherlands) where marijuana can be freely bought by everyone over 18 (up to a max per day). As far as I know there is basically no business in selling it outside of the official channels except for the few people who buy it there and then resell to minors.

However, to really get it out of the criminal system, the growing also has to be legal, which it is not here. So there is still a lot of criminal activity behind the legal shops. Officially, you can only have a few plants per household for your own use but it is illegal to buy/sell large quantities. So the shops have to engage in illegal activities (buying) to continue their tollerated activities (selling).

I say tollerated because also the selling in coffeeshos (and growing for own use) are officially illegal but are being tollerated so you cannot be prosecuted for it.

It is a really strange system so there are discussions on living out licenses to some 'farms'. I hope they do soon because even though for the general public there is no criminal activity in buying and using marijuana, there is still crime on the streets within the supply chain.

That’s kind of similar to how it was in my state for a long time. Marijuana growing is a huge cash crop in California. We had it allowed for medical use for a very long time, with dispensaries everywhere, and the medical reasons were/are very, very, very broad. You could also grow a certain number of plants. But recreational use was an infraction (small fine) . It was not an arrestable offense BUT selling/ growing was. It was primarily the large growers in a few counties who fought full legalization ( because of taxation/regulation). It is now legal recreationally, 21 and up, you can grow your own or buy from shops. Large growers and shops  are highly regulated and very highly taxed. My impression is most who like to consume small amounts socially or to relax or prefer edibles use the shops. Heavier users will just go to whatever underground source they already got weed from. The good thing the state presumably did was wipe out past convictions for low level marijuana charges, although I think that implementation of that was kind of sidelined by the pandemic. 

[Four is Enough]

21 hours ago, FiveAcres said:

 I seem to recollect that after my mother-in-law passed, the hospice organization came to the house, picked up the equipment, and conducted an inventory of the remaining drugs and picked those up as well. 

Both my parents were in hospice. When they died, the nurses did an inventory and took the narcotics, needles, and whatever else was medication, and took it with them.

I was fascinated when one guy came to pick up the bed, and just took it apart in manageable pieces, hauling it out one piece at a time. didn't know you could break down an entire bed like that. The largest thing was the mattress.

[Antimony]

9 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Legal marijuana is designed to help with pain, it is not a recreational drug. Street one is the one that makes you high. But even with the street one, there are a lot of different especies, some cause a "higher high" than others. 

I'm not like, a heavy user, but places that have legalized recreational cannabis have dispensaries that provide stuff that can get you high. (Also, marijuana tolerance is like, weird, in that it starts with a reverse-tolerance pattern for many people, and then a standard tolerance presentation that can then be walked back by relatively small breaks in use. Kava also has an inverse tolerance pattern.)

Anyway, recreational dispensaries will tell you THC/CBD content and those ratios, and I think most consumers want that information.  (Also extremely funny that MNLeg tried to do a "THC-Lite" law about edibles that some legislators compared to "light beer", as if there isn't a real logistical difference in slamming 12 light beers in rapid succession to over come the low alcohol content vs....eating a few more gummy bears to overcome the low THC content.)

Also I was just chatting with a student about cannabinoid receptors, which is such a funny way of naming a protein to me, because it tells me we didn't really know what this brain protein was for until we started studying cannabis. I'm not sure we still entirely know what these do, fully. Like, clearly, they must have some native role (and the clues to that native role are found in the effects of cannabis) but the fact that we discovered them because of drug use remains so funny to me.  

[Baba O'Riley]

On 7/7/2022 at 4:26 AM, IsmeWeatherwax said:

My friend is in the US and she has chronic migraines, she is only allowed 9 sumatriptan every 3 months (she doesn't pay as shes gets the disability payments, sorry I dont know what its called) from her Doctor. I (UK) also have chronic migraines, and on prescription I get 36 sumatriptan every 5 weeks, which I also get free as Im on certain benefits, tho if I did pay it would be £9.35.

She just recently went on a European tour and ran out of her migraine meds in France and was panicking, I said just go to a pharmacy and ask for some, she couldn't believe that was possible until she posted a pic of her holding 2 boxes of sumatriptan after just popping into a chemist. I cant remember the price but it was only a few euros. 

She told her Doctor about it when she went home, they just said well Im not surprised but I still cant give you more than 9. 

Utterly ridiculous situation. 

Mind you here in UK they dont like giving hospice patients too much morphine, you know in case they get addicted... 🙄

I also suffer from migraines and I also get 9 sumatriptans a month.  What I did to make them last is that I asked the doctor to prescribe double the strength of my usual  effective dosage.  For example, I think the effective dosage for me is 25 mg, so the doctor prescribes me 50 mg (I think, not sure about the exact mg, but I know it's double).  I then cut them in half.  The pharma company says you shouldn't do it but it works for me.  To be honest, it's not a bad idea to limit drugs like sumatriptan because it definitely has side effects, such as a temporary weakness, which passes quickly for me. I don't think one should pop them at the least little headache.  (I usually wait until I reach "3" on my self-made scale of 1 to 10.) I If it's any consolation to you or your friend, now that I am elderly, I have far fewer migraines than I had in my younger years.

[IsmeWeatherwax]

@Baba O'Riley thank I shall pass that on to my friend. Im 45, Ive had migraines since I was 10, they seem to be getting worse as I get older 😔

 

@Antimony we dont really have long term hospice care, that would be at home until pretty much the end, and the drugs would be administered by a community nurse who will visit at set times throughout the day, then you get moved to hospice when you're in for end of life care.

My very dear friend who passed from cancer last year passed in the local hospice, so very lucky to have able to visit and give her hugs, and she was moved there from ICU on the thursday afternoon (she had pneumonia) and she passed early hours saturday. It really is just so you dont get addicted to the morphine etc.

Same as you dont need disability as an amputee, well your leg might grow back! you may be blind now BUT again you dont need disability as your sight might come back! These are actual quotes from peoples actual applications for disability....  honestly you have to laugh 😂

[Antimony]

2 minutes ago, IsmeWeatherwax said:

@Baba O'Riley thank I shall pass that on to my friend. Im 45, Ive had migraines since I was 10, they seem to be getting worse as I get older 😔

 

@Antimony we dont really have long term hospice care, that would be at home until pretty much the end, and the drugs would be administered by a community nurse who will visit at set times throughout the day, then you get moved to hospice when you're in for end of life care.

My very dear friend who passed from cancer last year passed in the local hospice, so very lucky to have able to visit and give her hugs, and she was moved there from ICU on the thursday afternoon (she had pneumonia) and she passed early hours saturday. It really is just so you dont get addicted to the morphine etc.

Same as you dont need disability as an amputee, well your leg might grow back! you may be blind now BUT again you dont need disability as your sight might come back! These are actual quotes from peoples actual applications for disability....  honestly you have to laugh 😂

There is one TikToker this made me think of specifically who has been on hospice/palliative care for many years. They really expected her to die and she just...hasn't...done that but doesn't want any curative treatment at this time. I was wondering if there could be some legitimate concern in hitting a tolerance ceiling before death is imminent, because that would make sense as a real concern but....just addiction does not. 

I looked her up. Her handle is the_incurable_optimist and she has a degenerative disease. She refers to her care as both "hospice" and "palliative". I think she's from the UK.