Josh and Anna 55: Settling in at Seagoville

[Father Son Holy Goat]

2 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

 

Guys send lovely, romantic, heartfelt, funny, insightful love letters from prison. They are often decorated with beautiful art on the envelopes that the guy either does himself or pays a fellow inmate to do. Their mooning away wife/girlfriend(s)/ wanna be’s look forward to them. Because guys in prison are often 1,000 times better as a boyfriend/husband in their make believe inside world than they ever were at home. 
 

 

Wowser, remind me never to get a prison pen pal.

[Four is Enough]

21 hours ago, molecule said:

Not to mention all the milder words. I don't imagine she's used to hearing "shit" that often. And she doesn't even have to visit to get an earful. When I talked with my son on the phone the other day, I could hear a guy in the background saying, "The food here is some fucked-up shit. If I see the sheriff after I get out I'm going to piss on his shoes and make him lick it up." 

My son, in lockup currently awaiting trial, uses "shit-fuckin" all the time.. no, I don't know why or what it means..

AFA pretty prison envelopes... yup. Mine honed his tattoo drawing skills adorning envelopes for letters to me and Mr. Four.

[noseybutt]

3 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

My son, in lockup currently awaiting trial, uses "shit-fuckin" all the time.. no, I don't know why or what it means..

AFA pretty prison envelopes... yup. Mine honed his tattoo drawing skills adorning envelopes for letters to me and Mr. Four.

Artwork is both a way to pass the time and currency. Those who are good at it can swap for food, commissary, favors. Plus, it's a way to provide gifts for people on the outside.

Paños, or paños-style art on paper, can be stunning.

I once hired a Chicano art expert to help me on a case (with the permission of the legal team). The defendant lied so much that it was hard to figure out what was going on with him. He was a gifted artist though and I finally decided that maybe his art wouldn't lie. The expert was a huge help in figuring out how to motivate the defendant. He sorted through several hundred images and pulled out 2 or 3 that he felt like showed authentic emotion. Based on the context of when the art was done and who it was done for, we were able to figure out the people who mattered to him (which were not the ones he was telling us).

[Mama Mia]

9 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

Artwork is both a way to pass the time and currency. Those who are good at it can swap for food, commissary, favors. Plus, it's a way to provide gifts for people on the outside.

Paños, or paños-style art on paper, can be stunning.

I once hired a Chicano art expert to help me on a case (with the permission of the legal team). The defendant lied so much that it was hard to figure out what was going on with him. He was a gifted artist though and I finally decided that maybe his art wouldn't lie. The expert was a huge help in figuring out how to motivate the defendant. He sorted through several hundred images and pulled out 2 or 3 that he felt like showed authentic emotion. Based on the context of when the art was done and who it was done for, we were able to figure out the people who mattered to him (which were not the ones he was telling us).

Oh absolutely, much of it is gorgeous. I have several beautiful examples in my memory box.  The man though…….

Edited July 21, 2022 by Mama Mia

[noseybutt]

8 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Oh absolutely, much of it is gorgeous. I have several beautiful examples in my memory box.  The man though…….

You have no idea how much I relate. 

[Hera]

Honestly, I think Josh will do just fine in prison. Like everyone said, he's used to rigid rules, behaving publicly, eating shitty food and having people, noise and chaos around all the time. Has this guy EVER even had his own bedroom?  I don't think so.  Anyway, having a strictly controlled environment is not foreign to him, even as an adult. 

And I don't see him doing prison ministry. Josh isn't a leader and he's obviously not a true believer, either.  He's been going through the motions for years, pretending to be The Good Son, Husband and Father, when in reality he's a garbage monster who gets off on the truly horrific. I think he will just lean into that and enjoy being able to be who he actually is, awful as it is. For the first time in his life, Josh doesn't have to pretend to think a certain way. Unlike when he was in Arkansas or even DC, where the FRC people still spewed the same Because Jesus lines, no one in prison cares if Josh praises Jesus. He's going to be surrounded by men with all sorts of religious backgrounds, beliefs and/or the lack thereof, and for the first time in his life, he can actually freely express what he chooses to believe. And he'll have ample time to think on it. 

I'm sure Josh may initially try to game the system, and keep up the facade, but in reality, he's too lazy and too dumb to commit to a decade plus of actual, active ministry work based on an image he was never able to keep up with anyway. He'll behave and follow the rules more or less because that's what he's used to.  And, he'll likely learn a lot of awful shit from the people around him.  But, when he gets out, he'll be even more detached and removed from the life he was supposed to live than ever.  Would not surprise me in the slightest if he leaves Anna upon release. The life of a fundy husband and father to eleventy billion kids has never appealed to him. I can't imagine him willingly going back to it. 

[Tatar-tot]

On 7/19/2022 at 10:14 AM, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Will he, though?

Josh isn’t really in a position to insist on anything…

52 minutes ago, Hera said:

Honestly, I think Josh will do just fine in prison. Like everyone said, he's used to rigid rules, behaving publicly, eating shitty food and having people, noise and chaos around all the time. Has this guy EVER even had his own bedroom?  I don't think so.  Anyway, having a strictly controlled environment is not foreign to him, even as an adult. 

And I don't see him doing prison ministry. Josh isn't a leader and he's obviously not a true believer, either.  He's been going through the motions for years, pretending to be The Good Son, Husband and Father, when in reality he's a garbage monster who gets off on the truly horrific. I think he will just lean into that and enjoy being able to be who he actually is, awful as it is. For the first time in his life, Josh doesn't have to pretend to think a certain way. Unlike when he was in Arkansas or even DC, where the FRC people still spewed the same Because Jesus lines, no one in prison cares if Josh praises Jesus. He's going to be surrounded by men with all sorts of religious backgrounds, beliefs and/or the lack thereof, and for the first time in his life, he can actually freely express what he chooses to believe. And he'll have ample time to think on it. 

I'm sure Josh may initially try to game the system, and keep up the facade, but in reality, he's too lazy and too dumb to commit to a decade plus of actual, active ministry work based on an image he was never able to keep up with anyway. He'll behave and follow the rules more or less because that's what he's used to.  And, he'll likely learn a lot of awful shit from the people around him.  But, when he gets out, he'll be even more detached and removed from the life he was supposed to live than ever.  Would not surprise me in the slightest if he leaves Anna upon release. The life of a fundy husband and father to eleventy billion kids has never appealed to him. I can't imagine him willingly going back to it. 

Hop on his motorcycle 🏍 zooming off in the sunset.  In all honesty why would he want to come back?

[Father Son Holy Goat]

4 hours ago, noseybutt said:

Artwork is both a way to pass the time and currency. Those who are good at it can swap for food, commissary, favors. Plus, it's a way to provide gifts for people on the outside.

Paños, or paños-style art on paper, can be stunning.

I once hired a Chicano art expert to help me on a case (with the permission of the legal team). The defendant lied so much that it was hard to figure out what was going on with him. He was a gifted artist though and I finally decided that maybe his art wouldn't lie. The expert was a huge help in figuring out how to motivate the defendant. He sorted through several hundred images and pulled out 2 or 3 that he felt like showed authentic emotion. Based on the context of when the art was done and who it was done for, we were able to figure out the people who mattered to him (which were not the ones he was telling us).

I googled Panos art and wow! That is gorgeous!
 

1 hour ago, Hera said:

Honestly, I think Josh will do just fine in prison. Like everyone said, he's used to rigid rules, behaving publicly, eating shitty food and having people, noise and chaos around all the time. Has this guy EVER even had his own bedroom?  I don't think so.  Anyway, having a strictly controlled environment is not foreign to him, even as an adult. 

And I don't see him doing prison ministry. Josh isn't a leader and he's obviously not a true believer, either.  He's been going through the motions for years, pretending to be The Good Son, Husband and Father, when in reality he's a garbage monster who gets off on the truly horrific. I think he will just lean into that and enjoy being able to be who he actually is, awful as it is. For the first time in his life, Josh doesn't have to pretend to think a certain way. Unlike when he was in Arkansas or even DC, where the FRC people still spewed the same Because Jesus lines, no one in prison cares if Josh praises Jesus. He's going to be surrounded by men with all sorts of religious backgrounds, beliefs and/or the lack thereof, and for the first time in his life, he can actually freely express what he chooses to believe. And he'll have ample time to think on it. 

I'm sure Josh may initially try to game the system, and keep up the facade, but in reality, he's too lazy and too dumb to commit to a decade plus of actual, active ministry work based on an image he was never able to keep up with anyway. He'll behave and follow the rules more or less because that's what he's used to.  And, he'll likely learn a lot of awful shit from the people around him.  But, when he gets out, he'll be even more detached and removed from the life he was supposed to live than ever.  Would not surprise me in the slightest if he leaves Anna upon release. The life of a fundy husband and father to eleventy billion kids has never appealed to him. I can't imagine him willingly going back to it. 

It’s a sad commentary on fundamentalist life when Josh experiences the most freedom he’s ever had while in prison.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

38 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

It’s a sad commentary on fundamentalist life when Josh experiences the most freedom he’s ever had while in prison.

Yeah, I actually think his returning home in 10 years will be harder for him than the acclimating to prison is right now. No no kids, no clingy wife, no demanding parents, probably minimal cracker-sweeping in the dorm...The thing he misses most is probably his phone.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

3 minutes ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Yeah, I actually think his returning home in 10 years will be harder for him than the acclimating to prison is right now. No no kids, no clingy wife, no demanding parents, probably minimal cracker-sweeping in the dorm...The thing he misses most is probably his phone.

I’d be willing to bet he misses fast food as well 

[noseybutt]

5 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I googled Panos art and wow! That is gorgeous!

Currently banned in Texas prisons.

Because nothing helps rehabilitation like banning creative outlets.

[VixenToast]

2 hours ago, noseybutt said:

Currently banned in Texas prisons.

Because nothing helps rehabilitation like banning creative outlets.

Another reason to despise TX. Which is a pity. I’d like to visit someday but dang, Texas is bass ackwards in some things.

[Jinder Roles]

On 7/20/2022 at 10:00 AM, Coconut Flan said:

Underwire bras are banned in federal prison.  As you say, they set off the metal detectors.  Clothing in general has a whole list of can't wear.  Most of it won't bother Anna.  

No underwire?? Yet another reason me and my big ass boobs cannot go to prison. 

[Satan'sFortress]

20 hours ago, noseybutt said:

I once hired a Chicano art expert to help me on a case (with the permission of the legal team). The defendant lied so much that it was hard to figure out what was going on with him. He was a gifted artist though and I finally decided that maybe his art wouldn't lie. The expert was a huge help in figuring out how to motivate the defendant. He sorted through several hundred images and pulled out 2 or 3 that he felt like showed authentic emotion. Based on the context of when the art was done and who it was done for, we were able to figure out the people who mattered to him (which were not the ones he was telling us).

This sounds like the plot of a movie! 

[imokit]

So according to those visiting rules, Josh is allowed 2 adult visitors or 1 adult and 1 child over 5.  Any adult can have a child under 5 on their lap, but if the child gets up or objects to being on a lap for a whole visit the visit will be terminated.

I don't know what counts as an adult for having a lap child, but I suspect 13yo Mack won't count.  So the most kids Anna can bring at once is 2.  1 over 5 plus 1 under 5 or 2 under 5s if Anna brings another adult.

With their brand of discipline, getting a lap child to sit still wouldn't normally be a problem, but even a beaten child may react abnormally to the unfamiliar environment of prison and all the tensions around them.  I'm not sure how easy it would be to beat your kids in front of prison officers.    Where I am, CPS would be very aware of parents in prison and the thresholds for reporting mishandling children in a jail would be very low.

Added to that they currently only have 3 under 5s, which goes down to 2 in September when a kid turns 5.

So even if Anna goes to max visits and takes the kids each time, he won't actually see his children that much.  That's assuming that Anna won't want some adult only visits or doesn't decide that there are too many unsavories around to take the kids.

[Antimony]

9 hours ago, VixenToast said:

Another reason to despise TX. Which is a pity. I’d like to visit someday but dang, Texas is bass ackwards in some things.

This is a broadly sweeping feature of the prison system. TX is often egregious, but other states pull some nonsense. But, for a little fun, here are some of my favorite (read: most absurd) book restrictions in prison that I have confirmed.

• There's a prison in SC that doesn't allow any books mentioning witchcraft. Yes, even fantasy witchcraft.
• There's a Georgia Prison with the same Witchcraft rule. 
• There's a prison in MN that bans, specifically, romance novels published by Harlequin. A specific publisher. This baffles me. 
• That same prison bans coloring books, crosswords, word searches, sudoku, and all graphic novels and comic books. 
• There is a prison in Washington that rejects any book in Spanish. 
• Once, Pennsylvania banned all paper books. That lasted a month. It wasn't well received. 
• And because TX is egregious, here are the most wild bans from the Texas State Prison System that really are here to boggle the mind...
  • One prison in Texas rejects literally almost every James Patterson book. 
  • Same prison won't allow books that have queer characters.
  • Also turned around The Color Purple and The Bluest Eye. 
  • Two prisons in Texas almost invariably ban anything by Anne Rice. (Lestat is not welcome!!!)

The reasoning for banning panos, though, is also widespread rule even in pre-trial detention (it shows up in like, even the most pro-cop of prison documentaries), and it usually goes to "use of fabric is destruction of state property". I've definitely seen it show up in Alabama and Arizona. 

All that said, Texas has serious structural problems but it's a nice visit. There's a good little San Antonio/Austin Circuit, and I still want to see the Rothko Chapel so badly. Oh, the urge to stuff my face with a bunch of Torchy's Tacos. Still probably worth a visit, but I just got back from New Mexico so if you're looking for a hot, dry, Southwest vacation, New Mexico might be more comfy in some ways. I think I like Tex-Mex better than New-Mex, though (I really just can't turn down a fatty chili). 

[GiggleOfGirls]

1 hour ago, imokit said:

So according to those visiting rules, Josh is allowed 2 adult visitors or 1 adult and 1 child over 5.  Any adult can have a child under 5 on their lap, but if the child gets up or objects to being on a lap for a whole visit the visit will be terminated.

I don't know what counts as an adult for having a lap child, but I suspect 13yo Mack won't count.  So the most kids Anna can bring at once is 2.  1 over 5 plus 1 under 5 or 2 under 5s if Anna brings another adult.

With their brand of discipline, getting a lap child to sit still wouldn't normally be a problem, but even a beaten child may react abnormally to the unfamiliar environment of prison and all the tensions around them.  I'm not sure how easy it would be to beat your kids in front of prison officers.    Where I am, CPS would be very aware of parents in prison and the thresholds for reporting mishandling children in a jail would be very low.

Added to that they currently only have 3 under 5s, which goes down to 2 in September when a kid turns 5.

So even if Anna goes to max visits and takes the kids each time, he won't actually see his children that much.  That's assuming that Anna won't want some adult only visits or doesn't decide that there are too many unsavories around to take the kids.

Well, I’m not sure the sitting still would be a huge issue for them even in a setting where overt physical punishment wasn’t possible.

 

As a child, when my undiagnosed autistic ass “misbehaved” in public I wasn’t hit or beaten (that happened at home) — instead my mom would do more subtle things like pinching my upper arm and whispering threats about future non-public beatings. 
 

Of course, being autistic and not really understanding that I was supposed to be quiet and subtle in response, I’d be all “OW!!! Stop pinching me!” while wrenching myself free to lie on the floor, but I’ve seen those tactics “work” on more neurotypical children and they seemed to be common methods of public offspring control in my parents’ fundamentalist circle.

[Cam]

A small child can make a fuss for so many reasons. A hungry belly, teething, too hot/cold, full diaper, coming down with a cold or other illness, loud noises, scared, wants attention, dislikes different environment, even temperament—some kids are more fussy than others. I think you risk a whole visitation taking a young one to a prison visit. You’d just have to be aware of the possibility that it might not last long. Who knows, maybe Anna would use that to her advantage. 
 

I wonder if the older kids would be able to bow out of visits if it’s just too much of an ordeal for them. 
 

If Anna’s just taking a couple kids with her to prison visit Josh, and say she’s living with Pricilla, does that leave Priss to watch her own brood and the rest of Anna’s? It’s asking a lot of your sister. So much could go wrong. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Cam

[ILoveJellybeans]

Are people in prison for sex crimes against children allowed to have children visit them? I always presumed not as prison rules are so strict about everything else for reasons that would be incredibly unlikely to actually happen.

[noseybutt]

3 hours ago, Antimony said:

This is a broadly sweeping feature of the prison system. TX is often egregious, but other states pull some nonsense. But, for a little fun, here are some of my favorite (read: most absurd) book restrictions in prison that I have confirmed.

• There's a prison in SC that doesn't allow any books mentioning witchcraft. Yes, even fantasy witchcraft.
• There's a Georgia Prison with the same Witchcraft rule. 
• There's a prison in MN that bans, specifically, romance novels published by Harlequin. A specific publisher. This baffles me. 
• That same prison bans coloring books, crosswords, word searches, sudoku, and all graphic novels and comic books. 
• There is a prison in Washington that rejects any book in Spanish. 
• Once, Pennsylvania banned all paper books. That lasted a month. It wasn't well received. 
• And because TX is egregious, here are the most wild bans from the Texas State Prison System that really are here to boggle the mind...
  • One prison in Texas rejects literally almost every James Patterson book. 
  • Same prison won't allow books that have queer characters.
  • Also turned around The Color Purple and The Bluest Eye. 
  • Two prisons in Texas almost invariably ban anything by Anne Rice. (Lestat is not welcome!!!)

The reasoning for banning panos, though, is also widespread rule even in pre-trial detention (it shows up in like, even the most pro-cop of prison documentaries), and it usually goes to "use of fabric is destruction of state property". I've definitely seen it show up in Alabama and Arizona. 

All that said, Texas has serious structural problems but it's a nice visit. There's a good little San Antonio/Austin Circuit, and I still want to see the Rothko Chapel so badly. Oh, the urge to stuff my face with a bunch of Torchy's Tacos. Still probably worth a visit, but I just got back from New Mexico so if you're looking for a hot, dry, Southwest vacation, New Mexico might be more comfy in some ways. I think I like Tex-Mex better than New-Mex, though (I really just can't turn down a fatty chili). 

Nah. Once upon a time, TX Dept of Corrections actually had a whole art program around paños and encouraging inmates to develop their skills. It was dismantled and then paños were banned. 

Some of this is a broadly sweeping feature of the US prison system, I would agree.

But some of this is also hysteria and cruelty specific to Texas.

[feministxtian]

3 hours ago, GiggleOfGirls said:

As a child, when my undiagnosed autistic ass “misbehaved” in public I wasn’t hit or beaten (that happened at home) — instead my mom would do more subtle things like pinching my upper arm and whispering threats about future non-public beatings. 

The mother would pinch and twist my inner arm. Then she'd hiss at me to wait until I got home (to get my ass beat bigtime). She'd also give me the "look" that signaled that my life span was very short. Another favorite of hers was reaching behind me as if to put her hand on my back and she'd manage to do the pinch and twist on my ass cheek. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

3 hours ago, Cam said:

I wonder if the older kids would be able to bow out of visits if it’s just too much of an ordeal for them. 
 

If Anna’s just taking a couple kids with her to prison visit Josh, and say she’s living with Pricilla, does that leave Priss to watch her own brood and the rest of Anna’s? It’s asking a lot of your sister. So much could go wrong. 

Davia must be old enough to sister mom by now.  What is she, like 8 now? 

I wouldn't be surprised if Anna hardly ever brings the youngest two girls to see him.  He doesn't know the baby at all and I think number 6 was born just as his major troubles were beginning. I'll bet he barely even asks about them.

On the other hand, I can see her forcing the older ones to routinely visit, whether it traumatizes them or not.   

[Cam]

4 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

 

On the other hand, I can see her forcing the older ones to routinely visit, whether it traumatizes them or not.   

Do we know if Anna is this kind of mom? It’s hard for me to imagine being like that because I could never, would never force my child in this kind of situation.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Cam

[waltraute]

27 minutes ago, Cam said:

Do we know if Anna is this kind of mom? It’s hard for me to imagine being like that because I could never, would never force my child in this kind of situation.

Presumably you would not choose supporting a pedophile over protecting your children either, but Anna is that kind of mom.

[viii]

On 7/21/2022 at 2:05 PM, Hera said:

no one in prison cares if Josh praises Jesus. He's going to be surrounded by men with all sorts of religious backgrounds, beliefs and/or the lack thereof, and for the first time in his life, he can actually freely express what he chooses to believe. And he'll have ample time to think on it. 

I think the opposite. Josh is going to lean into the whole religious facade. Pedophiles are not treated kindly in prison and he’s going to want to present the best image he can.