Josh and Anna 55: Settling in at Seagoville

[Sops2]

I think whether or not Anna and the Ms relocate to Texas or merely visit and stay in the camper at the Wallers depends on which star David has hitched his wagon to.

He is in cahoots with JB -I'm sure he has learned quite a lot in his dealings with him and knows when to keep his mouth shut. We know that as he has kept very quiet about the goings on at IBLP  and can turn a blind eye if it suits him. 

A political career path is one he may want to follow in the future. JB is a big fish in a small political pool. If he is aiming for something bigger, a paedophile 's wife and 7 kids hanging on to his coat tails may just get in the way.

[Hazelbunny]

Thank you guys for your comments.  I really appreciate your views on the situation.  

I am sorry for hijacking the thread with family stuff.... I really need to learn to not get so emotionally involved. I am highly sensitive to emotions and strains within my family (and workplace for that matter). On the outside I am the quiet and calm center (and everybody comes to me with their problems and I help where I can) but the inside looks a lot different.  

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

So hard on kids. To be fair though, children that young often have natural separation anxiety, and split time custody with toddlers can be extra challenging. They are just too young to understand time and that the missing parent will return. And with older children the parents who has them the lesser amount of time is frequently the favored “fun” parent. — less of the normal nagging and scolding and general annoyance of homework, getting ready for school etc… that parent is often also more naturally relaxed because kids 10 days in a row is more stressful than having them 5 days. 

Not commenting on this particular family dynamic or capabilities - just some general observations from having worked with kids, and having a blended family

I imagine the M's are having some philosophical, as well as separation, issues.  In their culture, Daddy is the headship.  The chain of command and associated respect is clear.  Now Josh is in jail for a long haul.  Who replaces him in the chain?  If they're moving around between Arkansas and Texas do they have multiple, local Daddy-type substitutes?  Has Anna gained extra powers? 

I wonder whether they'll be skipping any Bible and/or Wisdom Book lessons referencing the sins of the father being visited upon the next generations.

The M's have done nothing to deserve this mess and I really feel bad for them.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Dandruff said:

I imagine the M's are having some philosophical, as well as separation, issues.  In their culture, Daddy is the headship.  The chain of command and associated respect is clear.  Now Josh is in jail for a long haul.  Who replaces him in the chain?  If they're moving around between Arkansas and Texas do they have multiple, local Daddy-type substitutes?  Has Anna gained extra powers? 

I wonder whether they'll be skipping any Bible and/or Wisdom Book lessons referencing the sins of the father being visited upon the next generations.

The M's have done nothing to deserve this mess and I really feel bad for them.

I kind of always assumed Anna was totally in charge at home and Josh probably used any excuse to be away. It might not be as big of a change as some families with dads always around helping with more than crackers. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

I think visitation is going to create a whole bunch of questions and possible trauma for these kids. Looks like the three oldest M's are 9, 11 and soon to be 13. No matter what they've been told, seeing their father in a jumpsuit in the visiting area of a federal prison surrounded by other prisoners and their family members is going to be jarring. Even if Mom has explained that the evil libruls have framed their innocent, martyred dad, by 11 I would have questioned that story as soon as I saw my father as a prisoner. Poor kids.

I know Anna will probably monopolize visiting time, but I wonder if JB and M will dare show their faces at the prison. Cell phones aren't allowed in the visiting area, but I can see fellow visitors reporting sightings on social media as soon as they get back to their cars.    

[EmCatlyn]

4 hours ago, Dandruff said:

I imagine the M's are having some philosophical, as well as separation, issues.  In their culture, Daddy is the headship.  The chain of command and associated respect is clear.  Now Josh is in jail for a long haul.  Who replaces him in the chain?  If they're moving around between Arkansas and Texas do they have multiple, local Daddy-type substitutes?  Has Anna gained extra powers? 

I wonder whether they'll be skipping any Bible and/or Wisdom Book lessons referencing the sins of the father being visited upon the next generations.

The M's have done nothing to deserve this mess and I really feel bad for them.

My grandfather was a sailor (merchant marine) and he would go away for months.  My grandmother was the boss when he was away.  When he returned (for a few weeks of break) he was the “head of the family” and everyone minded him.  (This was in the 1920s and 30s.)  My point is that kids can adjust to an absent “head of family.”

What may be harder for the Ms may be moving to Texas and/or going back and forth a lot.  Kids need a routine.  Also, if Anna is so focused on Josh that she can’t pay attention to her kids, that could be bad.

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I think visitation is going to create a whole bunch of questions and possible trauma for these kids. Looks like the three oldest M's are 9, 11 and soon to be 13. No matter what they've been told, seeing their father in a jumpsuit in the visiting area of a federal prison surrounded by other prisoners and their family members is going to be jarring. Even if Mom has explained that the evil libruls have framed their innocent, martyred dad, by 11 I would have questioned that story as soon as I saw my father as a prisoner. Poor kids.

I know Anna will probably monopolize visiting time, but I wonder if JB and M will dare show their faces at the prison. Cell phones aren't allowed in the visiting area, but I can see fellow visitors reporting sightings on social media as soon as they get back to their cars.    

Prison visiting can be rough on kids, and I’d imagine even more so if they have any idea of what he’s charged with. And I think it would be hard for at least Mack not to have some vague idea just from overhearing adults. By the time he’s released all but the youngest few would have seen or read something about it. How revolting for a girl not quite in her teens to discover the reason Dad disrupted their entire lives and everything they knew is turned around and mom cries and rants constantly, and Grandma is sad and Grandpa is angry and now you spend all your time being a parentified shoulder for mom and full time helper. It’s the emotional burden on her being too close to her mom that I think will be the worst part. Maybe Anna keeps clear boundaries and doesn’t lay it all on her child, but I kind of doubt it. No other woman except - maybe- Pricilla , and the creepy neighbor, seem to actually think Josh is innocent. She has to sob out her delusions to someone.

It will be interesting to see who else visits. I’m guessing JB will once or twice a year. Probably around holidays or birthdays. Maybe Michelle too, as time goes on. I doubt either will go more often then that. They might tie visits around visiting Justin, or family camp or other reasons they are in that general area. Other than maybe Justin, I can see a couple  of the brothers possibly visiting once or twice - total, over 10 years. Probably none of his sisters. 

[Jackie3]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I kind of always assumed Anna was totally in charge at home and Josh probably used any excuse to be away. It might not be as big of a change as some families with dads always around helping with more than crackers. 

Josh worked at the car lot. That would mean he'd be home at nights and on weekends. Those kids are used to having him around. Whether he helped out or not, he'd be there. I don't understand why you'd compare him to a dad who travels a lot, it wasn't like that at all. Josh didn't travel for work.

It's going to be a big adjustments for the little Ms. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Jackie3

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Has Anna actually announced moving to Texas or this is just rumor?

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

4 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Has Anna actually announced moving to Texas or this is just rumor?

It's neither. Since the birth of M7 last year, Anna has only announced that There is More To the Story and recently that she was going on a road trip to see her "bestie".  

People are speculating she may move as she appears to have landed in Texas with whoever she was visiting. And her BIL has a church about a 45 minute drive from Josh's prison. And a new RV. Waller would probably qualify as a headship for her as well.

My guess is she will move as Josh will insist on her visiting every week, but no one knows anything right now.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

2 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Josh will insist on her visiting every week

Will he, though?

[Meggo]

8 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Will he, though?

That's kind of what I wondered too. Obviously no one knows what's going on in their marriage - but this is a "good" time for him to bow out a bit. "Oh - Anna, I don't know if it's good for the kids to be here every weekend...." and then they come once a month or something. But I can't see him caring enough to see her every week... 

[Giraffe]

I’ve never gotten the impression Josh cares all that much about (or for) Anna. She’s always just seemed like a prop to him. He probably already has other women writing him. Writing back to them can be his new “ministry.” 🙄

[Antimony]

5 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

I’ve never gotten the impression Josh cares all that much about (or for) Anna. She’s always just seemed like a prop to him. He probably already has other women writing him. Writing back to them can be his new “ministry.” 🙄

I really wonder if he does. If people are writing to him, I would suspect their more like Duggar-orbiters than anything else. Maybe more of the same to him? I have a hard time believing he has the sort of clout that gets people to cling to famous serial killers, etc. Not that they deserve it, but the media circus and the whole aesthetic of true crime helps puff that up, and I just don't think the media shook out like that for him. My bets? Duggar adjacent and fans, who perhaps he finds tiresome because if so, he's probably getting like...long lists of Bible verses or whatever. I am fascinated by who is writing him, but I don't think he's going to get the same sort of prison romance writers that others get. 

There are plenty of pen-pal services but most of them are opt-in. I would be....surprised...if Anna paid the fee to put him on WriteAPrisoner.* It isn't cheap, it's like...sixty dollars I think? Most of the activist ones are opt-in (AbolitionApostles, Black&Pink, which he wouldn't qualify for anyway) and they're opt-in on both sides. Personally, I don't write to sex offenders. It's just my personal comfort line, but it's a pretty common one among pen-pal activists. 

*WriteAPrisoner also has an educational option for people to find correspondence tutors, which is neat. 

[viii]

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

I’ve never gotten the impression Josh cares all that much about (or for) Anna. She’s always just seemed like a prop to him. He probably already has other women writing him. Writing back to them can be his new “ministry.” 🙄

Literally. Josh has proven over and over he doesn’t care about Anna or the kids. I’m not sure why people think he would want her to move closer. He’s probably thrilled at the distance. He will only want her and/or the kids to visit if it benefits him in some way. 

[Coconut Flan]

IMO, Josh will care about how it benefits Josh.  If he get adulation or even simply relief from boredom, he'll want visitors as often as possible.  He'll want to keep the money flow to his commissary account going and to reinforce he's still around needing things.  

[Jana814]

Josh only cares about himself.  I think he will expect Anna to visit him every week. 

[Giraffe]

13 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

Josh only cares about himself.  I think he will expect Anna to visit him every week. 

I’m with those who doubt he cares. Anna on the other hand will absolutely visit as often as she’s allowed. It’s the same with moving. If she moves to Texas it’s only so she can visit him as often as possible. I doubt he would care.

[noseybutt]

17 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I think visitation is going to create a whole bunch of questions and possible trauma for these kids. Looks like the three oldest M's are 9, 11 and soon to be 13. No matter what they've been told, seeing their father in a jumpsuit in the visiting area of a federal prison surrounded by other prisoners and their family members is going to be jarring. Even if Mom has explained that the evil libruls have framed their innocent, martyred dad, by 11 I would have questioned that story as soon as I saw my father as a prisoner. Poor kids.

I know Anna will probably monopolize visiting time, but I wonder if JB and M will dare show their faces at the prison. Cell phones aren't allowed in the visiting area, but I can see fellow visitors reporting sightings on social media as soon as they get back to their cars.    

Prison visitation for children sheltered the way these kids are will be head-spinning for them.

I suspect Anna will be in for a shock too if/when she is allowed in-person contact. My understanding is so far she has only had phone and video visits when he has been in custody.

This is not a peaceful, sweet environment. She will contend with guards interpreting rules differently than she wishes, patting her down for simple reasons like an underwire bra, other women in line with her with heartbreaking stories, plenty of language and topics of conversation that are not fundie approved. 

//Off topic// I enter a wide variety of locked facilities because of my job. Once the jail commander in big city near me decided that the rule that nothing could be carried inside with the babies extended to baby blankets. One of the older jail deputies instructed a young dad to tie the blanket around his neck like a cape and he would let him in with it on the grounds that it was clothing. It was a sweet gesture. Jail and prison rules both make sense (in that the rules are about safety) and completely do not make sense (in that the rules are about control). 

Anna has some rough experiences ahead of her. Like others, I wish Josh would tell her to stay away. But that's unlikely.

4 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Will he, though?

I think he will just because it's a break in the boredom.

[Dandruff]

8 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

This is not a peaceful, sweet environment. She will contend with guards interpreting rules differently than she wishes, patting her down for simple reasons like an underwire bra, other women in line with her with heartbreaking stories, plenty of language and topics of conversation that are not fundie approved.

Anna's father runs (or ran) a prison ministry and, IIRC, she participated in it.  Visiting Josh wouldn't be the same as talking Jesus among a voluntary group of women but it seems she has some familiarity with the prison environment.

[noseybutt]

6 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

Anna's father runs (or ran) a prison ministry and, IIRC, she participated in it.  Visiting Josh wouldn't be the same as talking Jesus among a voluntary group of women but it seems she has some familiarity with the prison environment.

Ah. That makes sense.

Part of me though thinks, very condescendingly, "Good luck, sweetie. Let me know how it all works out." 

Family visitation to a sex offender is not the same respect/privilege as a ministry volunteer but she will figure that out.

[Howl]

Will an unvaccinated Anna be allowed into the prison for in-person visits? 

[monkeyrocks71]

I could see Josh wanting her to visit just for the power aspect.  He's a guy who gets off on holding power over other people.  He's not going to have very much opportunity for that in prison, I don't think.  He's going to want to feed that need for power somehow, and making Anna visit and making sure she doesn't "break free" is probably the best shot he has at that. 

[AussieKrissy]

6 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Will he, though?

Yep I reckon he will. Definitely at first. He will want some kind of consistency of what is/was known  as he finds his feet 

edit to add and some break from the day to day of prison life and he will most prob like the adoration that he won’t find in prison. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by AussieKrissy

[Giraffe]

3 hours ago, noseybutt said:

Ah. That makes sense.

Part of me though thinks, very condescendingly, "Good luck, sweetie. Let me know how it all works out." 

Family visitation to a sex offender is not the same respect/privilege as a ministry volunteer but she will figure that out.

I was thinking about this earlier and it would be fascinating to find out how different it will be for Anna to be in the group she presumably used to “other.” I’d also love to know: of the people who told her they were innocent, how many of them did she “bless your heart” as she mentally rolled her eyes. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Giraffe
Idk ≠ I’d