Josh and Anna 54: He's Listed in the BoP Database

[Cam]

8 minutes ago, socalrules said:

I don’t think anyone can help pick a prison for Josh other than the BOP. Not even the judge could do it, he could only recommend where he thought it would be best Josh go. At this point, no one really has any sway on anything pertaining to Josh. This is the first time Josh and the rest of the Duggars have come up against something for which they have no control. Josh may go to Texas right now but prisoners can be moved around and Josh may see the inside of three different prisons before he is released. That’s why I don’t think it makes sense for Anna to move closer to Josh as there is no guarantee he will serve his entire sentence in the same prison. 

What is the reasoning behind moving inmates to different prisons while they are serving their sentences?

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

55 minutes ago, Cam said:

What is the reasoning behind moving inmates to different prisons while they are serving their sentences?

As Josh is apparently going to a minimum security prison, I wouldn't anticipate much movement, as long as he doesn't commit any crimes or cause issues while in prison that might cause him to be moved into a medium security facility. But it's not unusual for federal prisoners to move up or down to a higher or lower level prison. For Josh, the only lower level security would be a camp, which I don't think would be likely to happen for a long time. 

[Mama Mia]

14 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

Late here and haven't fully read all the pages. I do think JB cares somewhat about the pants-wearing. I remember in 19KAC he told one of the little girls her dress was too short (it was gross) 

Also in released documents regarding the girls' lawsuit Jeremy was interviewed and he mentions JB having conversations about Jinger's dressing habits and him thinking it wasn't modest enough. Jeremy disagreed with this assertion. 

Jinger even cried in a talking head when Michelle talks about personal conviction regarding wearing pants meaning her decision to dress differently was likely to cause some tension. To me, this is evidence that both JB and Meech care about how their daughters dress. 

My impression is the pants wearing matters a lot to JB and Michelle because it’s the most visible representation on if their grown daughters are following their parents beliefs into adulthood. 

[AussieKrissy]

2 hours ago, Cam said:

What is the reasoning behind moving inmates to different prisons while they are serving their sentences?

progragms offerred, space available, classification issues, conflict issues, medical transfers, any number of reasons 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

43 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

progragms offerred, space available, classification issues, conflict issues, medical transfers, any number of reasons 

Is it ever just random, like we need people in beds there.

[AussieKrissy]

10 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Is it ever just random, like we need people in beds there.

yeah, it can be. especially with covid. Australian goals have been juggling the numbers after the two week ISO periods. The random moves are generally for the unclassified or unsentenced inmates who don't have a set gaol they need to be at for education progragms work or whatever. 

Also with the private gaols they get paid for a certain amount of inmates and I think though (dont quote me on this) they still get the money if the bed is full or not 

[Dollypolly]

In the UK if it’s a long sentence you do what’s class as tour of duty within the prison system. So they get moved around a lot, It’s apparently to stop boredom and riots. 
 

if a short sentence depending on the crime some get out on tag well a lot get out on tag as the prisons are overcrowded. 

[zee_four]

13 hours ago, Cam said:

What is the reasoning behind moving inmates to different prisons while they are serving their sentences?

By and large staffing and space. It's not quite as bad at the federal level as the state level but in both places most inmates are placed into facilities that don't have the programs they desperately need and getting them into any is often one of the lowest priorities after space, staffing and funding. Even if a facility is supposed to offer a program, sometimes they don't because of staffing and/or funding. In my experience with state DOC/prisons these are relative basic programs like addiction recovery, parenting classes, anger management, DV/sexualbassault/trauma recovery (especially in women's facilities). It's sad and further shows that rehabilitation has never been and still isn't a part of our criminal injustice system. 

Otherwise commonly moving between levels or prisoner designation, like from medium security to minimum or work release. I'd consider medical transfers part of this.

Least often it happens for security reasons. Like the murdering scumbag responsible for the Aurora theater shooting had to be transferred to a state prison outside Colorado. Inmates weren't notified when he was first placed in the Colorado DOC system but they quickly found out from friends and family. Within months of his sentencing there were a number of attempted attacks and one inmate related to the family of Veronica, the 6 year old who was the youngest victim, actually did attack him and then contacted the media about it. Dramatic, but not really common.

Edited June 23, 2022 by zee_four

[Cam]

Thanks, everyone, for listing reasons why prisoners may be moved. Knowing that it could happen to Josh, it doesn’t make sense for Anna to move. It’s already been difficult enough for her children. Moving them seems wrong. Guess we’ll have to wait and see how it all unfolds. If she does decide to pull up stakes and head to Texas, I feel it’s because she’s addicted to the upheaval that’s become her life since Josh. The slow hum of the regular routine of life may not be what she seeks. We’ll see.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Cam

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

1 hour ago, Cam said:

Thanks, everyone, for listing reasons why prisoners may be moved. Knowing that it could happen to Josh, it doesn’t make sense for Anna to move. It’s already been difficult enough for her children. Moving them seems wrong. Guess we’ll have to wait and see how it all unfolds. If she does decide to pull up stakes and head to Texas, I feel it’s because she’s addicted to the upheaval that’s become her life since Josh. 

Of course, those stakes are holding down a storage unit.

I get that it's shelter, but that is one grim place to call home. If staying there (or worse still, staying in the big house) is truly her only way of getting JB's financial support, she'll probably stay. But I think she'll ultimately do what Joshie tells her to do.  

[SassyPants]

16 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

My impression is the pants wearing matters a lot to JB and Michelle because it’s the most visible representation on if their grown daughters are following their parents beliefs into adulthood. 

And quiverful, but none of their daughters appear to be following that tenet. Kendra and Joe, yes!

[Four is Enough]

17 hours ago, Cam said:

What is the reasoning behind moving inmates to different prisons while they are serving their sentences?

One of mine was in a state prison. He was moved three times in five years. The expressed reason was they were regrouping populations to keep Gang X from killing Gang Y or Z. Sometimes certain gang people were in "protective custody" which meant they were able to get out of their cells for one hour, generally in the wee hours of the night, when the phones were turned off, exercise yard closed, but they were able to shower..

[Sullie06]

On 6/21/2022 at 3:23 PM, noseybutt said:

The "I agree" emoji seems awfully perky and inappropriate for this post. 

I think one of the pieces missing from ASO risk assessment is the opportunistic piece. To be blunt: how lazy they are. The ones who groom are often viewed as more problematic because of the manipulative piece. And manipulation is a concern. IME though, it's the one who will have sex with whoever is available (and weaker, younger, more vulnerable) that are the bigger concern long term. But I don't think there is hard research data on that.

Oh I agree. While I do think our local program is very forward moving and they do a very good job in general, there are still holes in the treatment plans at time. I think identifying the risk of re-offending behaviors and the why that drives the behaviors is huge.

Don't get me started on Risk Assessments, I think tools are easily manipulated. The ones we use for Probation are a joke. Our professional opinions are often more accurate but we have to use this tool the state chose, because they tell us we have to.

[Alisamer]

17 hours ago, Cam said:

What is the reasoning behind moving inmates to different prisons while they are serving their sentences?

My co-worker's son was moved pretty often within the state system. Often at very short notice. It was usually because space was available at this prison and the one he was at needed space or was overcrowded, or they needed to move people around for safety reasons, or for access to programs, or because it was Tuesday. I think I remember every time he moved his mom had to send him more money for his account - things would be lost or have to be bought again from the commissary, or he couldn't take everything with him, or whatever. There was always something happening with a move that meant he needed some money at the new place. At least he was within the state, though.

I don't think it would make sense for Anna to move to be near him. Chances are he will be moved occasionally and if she moves every time it will be a major disruption for the kids.

Now if she moved this first time, got a home established, got the kids settled, and then stayed there after he was moved elsewhere, I could see that being a good idea. Away from the Duggar Borg, in a place where she had to establish herself and her family... it could be a good experience for her.

Just like I think that many (not all, but many) young adults benefit greatly from moving away from home for a time - whether that's going away to college or just living on their own - I think Anna could benefit from moving. She went straight from parents to Josh and his parents. In DC she had Josh with her. I think living on her own with no headship for an extended amount of time would really help her mature a lot. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

Josh must have landed at his new home. Anna posted on an Instagram story today that she's "road-tripping to visit her bestie" and is celebrating the 14 year anniversary of her saying "YES!".

Gross.

[fundiewatch]

I think she is road-tripping to see a female bestie. I don’t think Josh has been transferred yet. She’s absolutely delusional though. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

6 minutes ago, fundiewatch said:

I think she is road-tripping to see a female bestie. I don’t think Josh has been transferred yet. She’s absolutely delusional though. 

The BOP database runs a few days behind, so I'd watch that space. It's just about a month; I can't see him being held in jail much longer. But, yeah, hopefully she's all pumped about traveling to visit a female bestie with no connection to her comment about saying YES! to Josh 14 years ago.

[neuroticcat]

Wow. So is that celebrating her engagement or wedding I wonder? 
 

For any of these women I will celebrate the day they are able to say NO to something. 
 

17 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

My impression is the pants wearing matters a lot to JB and Michelle because it’s the most visible representation on if their grown daughters are following their parents beliefs into adulthood. 

Yes! I also think it’s because they tripled down on it in earlier years and saw it as a culture war moment for Christ for so many years. Likely Gothard originally picked it as a literally applicable Important Verse, but I’ve heard the IBLP crew quote the “women shall wear not which pertain with to a man.” So for their daughters to be like, “meh, don’t think God cares” requires either retraction of what they spent so many years defending or some level of shunning (b/c the fundie way is to publicly reject what you disagree with). They’re kind of in a bind so best to kind of pretend they never really cared that much about it to begin with rather than that it was one of many hills they were willing to die on. 
 

The IBLP family we were closeish with growing up used to say it was just “so much easier” to dress everyone the same…no more arguments about clothes…etc. I think they were smart enough to know the cult reasoning would’ve set off flags for people but not aware enough to know everyone else still thought it was weird as all get out to opt for prairie dress to avoid arguing control your kids.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

1 minute ago, neuroticcat said:

Wow. So is that celebrating her engagement or wedding I wonder? 
 

Engagement. Josh showed up at Gator Landing on her 20th birthday, 14 years ago today.

[sndral]

3 hours ago, Cam said:

… it doesn’t make sense for Anna to move. It’s already been difficult enough for her children. Moving them seems wrong. Guess we’ll have to wait and see how it all unfolds. If she does decide to pull up stakes and head to Texas, I feel it’s because she’s addicted to the upheaval that’s become her life since Josh. The slow hum of the regular routine of life may not be what she seeks. We’ll see.

IMO Anna’s choices are driven by what Anna wants & she doesn’t consider how her actions are impacting her children. She’s driven by her desire to maintain the illusion of her forever marriage & her martyrdom, her kids are just along for the ride.

Anna’s built a fantasy that daddy is innocent & being persecuted, I bet every night she leads the children in prayer for justice to be done & innocent daddy to be set free. if the Duggarborg think shifts to Josh is guilty & needs to repent I can see Anna moving. Her kids spend a lot of time at the big house w/ their cousins, if the prayers there shift to praying for Josh to repent & be saved then maybe she’ll leave to maintain the innocent/persecuted fantasy.

I wonder how Anna will react if, after losing his final appeal, Josh switches to guilty/accepting responsibility & seeking redemption.

35 minutes ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Josh must have landed at his new home. Anna posted on an Instagram story today that she's "road-tripping to visit her bestie" and is celebrating the 14 year anniversary of her saying "YES!".

Gross.

Odd that none of the Duggar planes were offered. When Josh was in Jesus jail they used to fly her to visit him.

I wonder who’s traveling with her, I don’t see her traveling alone or alone w/ her offspring, so I’m curious which Duggar adult(s) are ‘road-tripping’ w/ her.

[Jackie3]

11 minutes ago, sndral said:

Anna’s built a fantasy that daddy is innocent & being persecuted, I bet every night she leads the children in prayer for justice to be done & innocent daddy to be set free. if the Duggarborg think shifts to Josh is guilty & needs to repent I can see Anna moving. Her kids spend a lot of time at the big house w/ their cousins, if the prayers there shift to praying for Josh to repent & be saved then maybe she’ll leave to maintain the innocent/persecuted fantasy.

 

That would be pretty irrational on her part (though we haven't seen much rational behavior). Why would a mother of 7 leave behind the four teen and preteen girls she probably depends on heavily for babysitting? And wouldn't it piss off her ATM, Jim Bob?

 

41 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

For any of these women I will celebrate the day they are able to say NO to something. 

Good thought, so will I. It's so easy to say yes, especially when you've been raised ignore your own needs.  It's so difficult to say no.

19 hours ago, socalrules said:

This is the first time Josh and the rest of the Duggars have come up against something for which they have no control.

They've come up against plenty of things they have no control over.

Josh's conviction, for example. The sex of their kids. Election results.  Plenty of things.

I"m sure they aren't happy about having no say in his prison, but it can't be the first time they've encountered a lack of control. They are a well-known and semi-wealthy family, but they aren't omnipotent.

[Antimony]

1 hour ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

The BOP database runs a few days behind, so I'd watch that space. It's just about a month; I can't see him being held in jail much longer. But, yeah, hopefully she's all pumped about traveling to visit a female bestie with no connection to her comment about saying YES! to Josh 14 years ago.

Yea, fairly sure it's Josh. If it's not Josh...it's very strange to mention him indirectly in this way. Unless she's about to Thelma & Lousie it up with a new bestie we don't know about, but I won't hold my breath. 

I suspect, but cannot be sure, that Anna doesn't really have many close women in her life. She might think so, but compared to standards of friendship that can exist when you can actually talk about shit that matters, I don't think so. Keep sweet, be meek, and pray aren't really attitudes that help you like...show up at your best friends house at night and eat a pint of ice cream while she validates all the shit talk of your husband. Needing to be always at home, having a husband who weaponizes incompetence, doesn't allow you to like take a day trip to the next town over to try out the new taco bar. Being so sexually repressed means that you're not going to send a best friend your favorite spicy fanfiction or giggle over a Harlequin romance at the bookstore. I imagine it's hard to really make friends, and therefore even harder to make a friend who would show up for you after all this. A friend who might give you some lip service and a Bible quote? Sure. But really show up? Ehh.

[imokit]

I think Anna's female besties have been her sisters and the Duggar girls.  Of Anna's sisters - Esther is in Africa.  Priscillia is valid and godly still but has her own family (though her hubby seems to be getting very involved with Anna) and the others are heathens.

I think there are lot of tensions between Anna and the Duggar girls and the Duggar girls may have dumped Anna.  Jana - who knows what Jana thinks, but I'd expect she's more likely to favour her sisters over Anna.  Jill - rebel, hates Josh - can't be comfy for Anna.  Jessa - more quiet about what she thinks unlikely to be wanting to be around people pining over Josh.  Jinger - far far away, hates Josh. Joy - young enough that she was probably never in Anna's friend group, also not liking Josh.

Also I wouldn't be surprise if a lot of the initial closeness from Duggar girls to Anna, was them wanting the relationship to work to get Josh out the house.

Josh's fall may have shown Anna that relationships she thought were close were not nearly as close as she thought.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

5 minutes ago, imokit said:

I think there are lot of tensions between Anna and the Duggar girls and the Duggar girls may have dumped Anna.  Jana - who knows what Jana thinks, but I'd expect she's more likely to favour her sisters over Anna.  Jill - rebel, hates Josh - can't be comfy for Anna.  Jessa - more quiet about what she thinks unlikely to be wanting to be around people pining over Josh.  Jinger - far far away, hates Josh. Joy - young enough that she was probably never in Anna's friend group, also not liking Josh.

Even if some of the Duggar women would normally feel some degree of pity for Anna, it's probably heavily tempered by Anna's insistence that Josh is the real victim here. Besides, they're all busy with kids/houses/pregnancy or trying to be pregnant. Aside from the possibility of Jana, my guess is none of them are her pals. I'm not even sure any ever really were, although they were probably very glad Anna came along and got him out of the house.

I do wonder if any of the older Duggars had any fears when the M-kids started coming along. God knows I would have.

[indianabones]

I'm shocked that Anna is still posting on social media.

I feel like I say this a lot, but the cognitive dissonance that fundies display never ceases to amaze me.