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Katie & Travis 4: Still under the Umbrella of Patriarchy


samurai_sarah
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My guess as to how things went: dad Clark told Travis they should wait a year before getting pregnant. Travis agrees. He and Katie talk about it and agree. They get married and Katie is homesick as fuck. It gets so bad that Travis thinks he might have to move to Tennessee. And I bet he doesn’t want to do that. To compromise, he says they can go off BC early. Katie agrees and they get pregnant right away. Katie’s homesickness is immediately gone and Travis’s dad is shocked they got pregnant so soon. 

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1 minute ago, SorenaJ said:

Good for them using birth control, and feeling comfortable controlling their family size. 

We already pretty much knew. It’s obvious the Clark family uses it. And they said they only wanted 3 or 4 kids. Quiverful don’t say that. 

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Someone on Reddit caught what I didn't and that Travis said that the doctor told them it might take longer than it did. So Katie might have actually been on hormonal birth control. If so, then I wonder what her parents thought. 

 

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1 hour ago, CanadianMamam said:

They also say they used birth control and got pregnant with Hailey the first cycle they went off.

Where did they say that they conceived first time they tried? What I heard was that they got pregnant a lot faster than they thought, but that’s not the same.

Edited by Cupcake79
Grammar
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28 minutes ago, Cupcake79 said:

Where did they say that they conceived first time they tried? What I heard was that they got pregnant a lot faster than they thought, but that’s not the same.

They said they stopped using birth control and got pregnant immediately. It was closer to the end when they were talking about birth control. So between that and then saying that they and the doctor were surprised by how quickly it happened and that, it seems like it happened immediately. Also, Katie was pregnant 6.5 months after they got married, with active preventing for the first few months, there isn't a lot of time for it to have been anything else. 

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2 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

Someone on Reddit caught what I didn't and that Travis said that the doctor told them it might take longer than it did. So Katie might have actually been on hormonal birth control. If so, then I wonder what her parents thought.

I hope parents aren't awful enough to say anything, because it's none of their business. 

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I feel like it says a lot about the Bates that as creepy as the Clark's are, they seem to be giving Katie something she never had. I think she really enjoys their help and attention, as I said her videos have definitely made me think that she has been having some feelings about how she was raised. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't think the doctor saying it might take a while had to do with hormonal birth control. My doctor told me you are MOST fertile right when you come off. Maybe he just meant "don't get your hopes up you crazy kids" or didn't think they'd know that much about tracking fertility styles (since New Jersey is most likely more full of sinning, birth control using Catholics rather than fundamentalists). 

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56 minutes ago, MaryOrMartha said:

Can Katie be on hormonal birth control with her clotting issues?

Not a doctor, but I would think you can be on progesterone only birth control, as it does not increase the risk of blood clots. People who are smokers, and over 35 can also be on it. I don't think a doctor would prescribe the combined pill (estrogen and progesterone) to someone with a family history of blood clots (or at least several clotting disorders). 

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I don't think Katie was using a hormonal BC. A doctor saying "it might take a bit longer" is literally just basic science and what every woman who is TTC should be told. Conception is basically like hitting the timing lottery for us average (aka: not super fertile like the Bates/Duggars) women and the reality is that it doesn't happen right away for even healthy women. Wayyyy too many women think that they will come off BC, start paying attention to their ovulation, and then BAM get pregnant ASAP. 

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It’s very normal for women to take six months or more to get pregnant. You have to go a year with unprotected sex before you can be considered to have infertility. It’s honestly why I am so shocked that so many get pregnant right away. Because you would think it could take at least a few months for some people. At least the Maxwells didn’t seem to be ridiculously fertile like other fundie families *cough* Mortons *cough.* None of them had a baby by their first anniversary. Even Chelsy Bontrager didn’t have a baby on her first anniversary! 

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20 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s very normal for women to take six months or more to get pregnant. You have to go a year with unprotected sex before you can be considered to have infertility. It’s honestly why I am so shocked that so many get pregnant right away. Because you would think it could take at least a few months for some people. At least the Maxwells didn’t seem to be ridiculously fertile like other fundie families *cough* Mortons *cough.* None of them had a baby by their first anniversary. Even Chelsy Bontrager didn’t have a baby on her first anniversary! 

I think that’s partly due to people being more vocal about it when it happened at their first try. Because it is kind of unexpected and they are surprised. Getting pregnant after 3-8 cycles is just not noteworthy. Taking longer is often accompanied by negative feelings and emotions, which many choose not to share with lots of people. It’s like the “pregnant on the pill” stories. It is crazy effective but you hear lots of stories because it’s out of the ordinary (assuming we take about a real failure on BC side and not about one of the many options that lower the 99% effectiveness so that the numbers of unplanned pregnancies get up naturally. Seriously if you read the package insert, there so many ways which take away from the perfect use situation.).

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It took me forever to get pregnant with my second child (second husband who had mumps as an adult, I figured it would never happen).  But my grandparents had a horrible wreck and I had to go take care of them for a couple of months; I guess all that stored up had some live swimmers because then I did get pregnant.

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Travis told a strange story about Katie’s prenatal appointment today in Katie’s IG stories. The doctor they were seeing for the first time was actually the doctor that delivered Travis. He already knew this from a conversation with his mom. When the doctor came in the room, she told Travis to stand up and proceeded to slap him on the ass (my words) as a funny(?) way to confirm that he was the same baby that she had delivered (she was already aware of it too.) 

Travis was justifiably taken aback, but didn’t want to say anything bad about the doctor. That was such an unprofessional, unacceptable thing to do. If that was a male doctor, people would be furious, but since this was a woman, it’s just supposed to be funny?

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1 hour ago, JDuggs said:

Travis told a strange story about Katie’s prenatal appointment today in Katie’s IG stories. The doctor they were seeing for the first time was actually the doctor that delivered Travis. He already knew this from a conversation with his mom. When the doctor came in the room, she told Travis to stand up and proceeded to slap him on the ass (my words) as a funny(?) way to confirm that he was the same baby that she had delivered (she was already aware of it too.) 

Travis was justifiably taken aback, but didn’t want to say anything bad about the doctor. That was such an unprofessional, unacceptable thing to do. If that was a male doctor, people would be furious, but since this was a woman, it’s just supposed to be funny?

Agreed… that story made me super uncomfortable. Grossly inappropriate and unprofessional 😬

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On 11/16/2022 at 9:33 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s very normal for women to take six months or more to get pregnant. You have to go a year with unprotected sex before you can be considered to have infertility. It’s honestly why I am so shocked that so many get pregnant right away. 

I got pregnant with my daughter on my first cycle after I went off birth control.  I didn't even have a period before I got pregnant. With my son it took two. Two is plenty for me and I shudder to think how many I would have if I didn't use birth control. I was also unable to breastfeed due to insufficient production so I have no idea if that would have delayed my periods returning. 

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19 minutes ago, Knight of Ni said:

I got pregnant with my daughter on my first cycle after I went off birth control.  I didn't even have a period before I got pregnant. With my son it took two. Two is plenty for me and I shudder to think how many I would have if I didn't use birth control. I was also unable to breastfeed due to insufficient production so I have no idea if that would have delayed my periods returning. 

I dealt with infertility with my first and considered myself insanely lucky to get pregnant through IUI on the first cycle. Then with my second, we ran out of condoms and I just said hell with it. And after 4 months of no condoms I got pregnant. I was stunned because I assumed I would need IUI again for a second child. That’s probably why I’m so surprised when I see all these fundies getting pregnant so soon after marriage. 

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2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I dealt with infertility with my first and considered myself insanely lucky to get pregnant through IUI on the first cycle. Then with my second, we ran out of condoms and I just said hell with it. And after 4 months of no condoms I got pregnant. I was stunned because I assumed I would need IUI again for a second child. That’s probably why I’m so surprised when I see all these fundies getting pregnant so soon after marriage. 

Most of them are also super young, which factors into it too, since fertility peaks in your early to mid 20s

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I have 3 kids via IVF and now know way too much about fertility. I have a friend who is a reproductive endocrinologist (aka fertility doctor) and she says that average time to conception is frequently misunderstood.

The up to one year to get pregnant being normal statistic is based on usual intercourse without birth control, not people timing and actively attempting to conceive. It also tends to come from a guideline put out by insurance companies (of course it’s in their best interest for people to wait longer to seek treatment).

In a study of couples trying to conceive by tracking ovulation and timing intercourse, 38% conceived during the first month, 68% within 3 months, 81% within 6 months, and 92% within a year.

My RE friend said people should actually start looking into a fertility consultation after 3 months without conception because it may be a sign of subfertility  or infertility, especially bc it can take awhile to get the appointment and go through testing, etc.

Subfertility is much more common than infertility. I conceived on my 7th cycle of trying, which I was thrilled about and thought was normal (then miscarried, hence the IVF kids), and was told it was extremely concerning that it took that long and was a sign that something was wrong, like maybe I would get lucky and conceive again bc clearly it was possible, but there was no guarantee and it could take a very long time. 

Anyway, the Duggars and Bateses are like a natural fertility experiment. It’s not at all shocking that all of them get pregnant within a month or two, because that’s actually most typical for fertile couples having sex during ovulation.

Notice the ones who have not conceived within a couple of months after marriage (or after stopping birth control in Katie’s case), have either later revealed they were using birth control (like Jinger) or have gone on to never conceive at all (like Michaela). Basically it’s most typical for it to happen right away/very quickly or not at all. 

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7 hours ago, Johannah said:

In a study of couples trying to conceive by tracking ovulation and timing intercourse, 38% conceived during the first month, 68% within 3 months, 81% within 6 months, and 92% within a year.

This is only true if you are fairly young (I can't remember exact age now, but certainly under 30, might be under 25). I have seen lots of similar studies and they really vary in the numbers depending on what you define as 'tracking and timing', 'trying to conceive' and which ages you include and exclude. 

 

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On 11/17/2022 at 9:51 PM, JDuggs said:

Travis told a strange story about Katie’s prenatal appointment today in Katie’s IG stories. The doctor they were seeing for the first time was actually the doctor that delivered Travis. He already knew this from a conversation with his mom. When the doctor came in the room, she told Travis to stand up and proceeded to slap him on the ass (my words) as a funny(?) way to confirm that he was the same baby that she had delivered (she was already aware of it too.) 

Travis was justifiably taken aback, but didn’t want to say anything bad about the doctor. That was such an unprofessional, unacceptable thing to do. If that was a male doctor, people would be furious, but since this was a woman, it’s just supposed to be funny?

That story was so creepy and you could see our uncomfortable poor Travis was.

Re: fertility. I got pregnant first try every time (including the ones that ended in miscarriage) but I have a clockwork cycle and have been tracking my fertility got years because I can't take hormonal birth control. 

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I've noticed recently that Katie is wearing pants a lot more in videos/instagram stories. It used to be just sweatpants at home but today she has a story up of shopping with Travis for Christmas supplies, and she's wearing jeans! It gave me just a glimmer of hope that maybe Travis is going to branch out a little from his family rules, as strict as they may seem. 

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