Katie & Travis 4: Still under the Umbrella of Patriarchy

[Dandruff]

I really like the name Hailey but find the name James for a girl kind of odd.  It sounds nice, though, and I think most will assume that James is a family surname being used as a middle name.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think middle names are made to be the wild name. They are hardly ever used so if you want the middle name to be Spurgeon, Heistheway, or James, I say go for it. 

[CanadianMamam]

1 hour ago, Dandruff said:

I really like the name Hailey but find the name James for a girl kind of odd.  It sounds nice, though, and I think most will assume that James is a family surname being used as a middle name.

James for a girl is getting trendy. Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively have a daughter James. Jessica Capshaw, Jennifer Love Hewitt and James Marsden all have daughters with the middle name James. 

[Jackie3]

11 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

More based on her general style. I mean we don't actually know but just like Josie's actual style influence her names, Katie who had a classic but also trendy black and white wedding and seems to employ that style. So I felt like she'd be a mix of trendy and classic. She also had said in the past that she likes James for a boy or a girl. 

 

I had no idea that 1) there was a "style" involved in naming kids and 2) outsiders could tell that style by looking at your wedding. How interesting that a black and white wedding can lead to the name James. I don't see the connection but apparently others do.

Also, what about the husbands? How do you tell their naming style? 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Hailey James Clark reminds me of Haley James Scott on One Tree Hill (American tv drama). Scott is the married name and James was her maiden name.

[freethemall]

6 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

I had no idea that 1) there was a "style" involved in naming kids and 2) outsiders could tell that style by looking at your wedding. How interesting that a black and white wedding can lead to the name James. I don't see the connection but apparently others do.

Also, what about the husbands? How do you tell their naming style? 

Culture and style and beliefs have always gone into naming babies. We talk about fundies using religious names, whether biblical or crazy stuff like Hisistheway or whatever, versus even in mainstream you wouldn't be surprised from the 60s if a hippie named their kid Sunshine versus someone more traditional named their kid Mary or John. 

The main thing I see in a lot of the Bates is they follow trends and show that in the same way they grew up conforming and not thinking for themselves, even in being more modern they lack any creativity whatsoever. It's all about being cute and appearing interesting though they really arent, the equivalent of ironically painting everything white and beige.

[Jackie3]

6 hours ago, freethemall said:

Culture and style and beliefs have always gone into naming babies. We talk about fundies using religious names, whether biblical or crazy stuff like Hisistheway or whatever, versus even in mainstream you wouldn't be surprised from the 60s if a hippie named their kid Sunshine versus someone more traditional named their kid Mary or John. 

The main thing I see in a lot of the Bates is they follow trends and show that in the same way they grew up conforming and not thinking for themselves, even in being more modern they lack any creativity whatsoever. It's all about being cute and appearing interesting though they really arent, the equivalent of ironically painting everything white and beige.

Culture. . . absolutely affects baby names. But style? Like the colors you choose for your wedding or your home decor or the clothes you wear? I did not know that.

How does that work with husbands, though? Presumably husband have an equal say in baby names. From what I've seen of the Bates men, they don't pay much attention to style. How does it work with them?  It's not just the moms picking out the names.

[CanadianMamam]

We know Chad and Erin have an agreement where she pick the first name and he picks the middle name, which is why their kids have unusual first names and traditional middle names. 

Katie and Travis stated that Hayley was on Travis's list and Katie liked it. You can tell from observing Travis and his family, that he probably wouldn't be naming his kid Cambree or Sequoia. 

As for the other husbands, it is hard to tell, althoguh we know Evan picked out Zade's middle name. 

 

[Jackie3]

16 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

We know Chad and Erin have an agreement where she pick the first name and he picks the middle name, which is why their kids have unusual first names and traditional middle names. 

 

"Let's make an agreement. I'll pick out the most important name, and you'll pick out the name nobody knows or hears. Sound good?"

It's kind of like, "I'll pick out the house we live in, and you pick out the lamp in the guest bedroom."

 

16 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

As for the other husbands, it is hard to tell, althoguh we know Evan picked out Zade's middle name. 

 

Yes, but I could not have guessed Zade's name based on Evan's style.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Jackie3

[SorenaJ]

2 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

"Let's make an agreement. I'll pick out the most important name, and you'll pick out the name nobody knows or hears. Sound good?"

It's kind of like, "I'll pick out the house we live in, and you pick out the lamp in the guest bedroom."

Erin did have to carry the pregnancy with all the symptoms, morning sickness, aches and pains, get daily injections, push a watermelon-sized baby out of a donut-sized hole, have her hoo-ha ripped apart, have her nipples sucked raw. It seems fair enough that she got to pick the first name. 

[CanadianMamam]

I have a friend who is days away from birth and still no name becssue they can't find any middle ground (her partner only likes 3 names and refused to budge). My advise to her was to let him have the middle name even if she hates all his choices in exchange for compromise on the first name otherwise baby is going to have no name. 

My husband and I were pretty much on the same page. We vetoed a few names from each other's list, but our general name style was pretty similar and we were able to pick 3 names without too much issue. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

My husband liked my name choices. So I basically named them. But almost all of their names are family names. So it’s hard to object to family names. 

[CanadianMamam]

50 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

My husband liked my name choices. So I basically named them. But almost all of their names are family names. So it’s hard to object to family names. 

My husband actually dislikes the idea of family names and 100% didn't want to use any from his side. We did use two from my side, we used my dad/grandpa's name as a middle name and then our  daughter's name is one that has been passed down for generations in my mom's family. 

[Jackie3]

On 9/25/2022 at 7:59 AM, SorenaJ said:

Erin did have to carry the pregnancy with all the symptoms, morning sickness, aches and pains, get daily injections, push a watermelon-sized baby out of a donut-sized hole, have her hoo-ha ripped apart, have her nipples sucked raw. It seems fair enough that she got to pick the first name. 

I think she'd have had Chad do that too, if she could!

It's true Erin gives birth But doesn't Chad help raise the kids (they mentioned he did all the night feedings)? He also spends the next 20 years  working construction to support the kid.

I didn't know that women got to choose the first name because they give birth. Is that what most people do? We chose the name together.  It was fun.

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Jackie3

[whitney37354]

On 9/24/2022 at 2:12 AM, Jackie3 said:

I had no idea that 1) there was a "style" involved in naming kids and 2) outsiders could tell that style by looking at your wedding. How interesting that a black and white wedding can lead to the name James. I don't see the connection but apparently others do.

Also, what about the husbands? How do you tell their naming style? 

I am a conservative Christian, not as fundy as those we talk about here.  I had a black and white wedding 29 years ago.  My husband named our only child, a daughter, and her middle name is Troi.  We check all the boxes...🤣

[monkeyrocks71]

20 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

My husband actually dislikes the idea of family names and 100% didn't want to use any from his side. We did use two from my side, we used my dad/grandpa's name as a middle name and then our  daughter's name is one that has been passed down for generations in my mom's family. 

My family is filled with John Sr and John Jr, Big Janice and Little Janice, etc..  My parents were against that.

My daughter ended up with a name VERY similar to mine, but, only because I love the nickname (which my mom said was supposed to be my nickname until everyone in the family refused to use it), which is different from my nickname.  Think Danica and Daniela, and one of us is nicknamed Dani, and the other Ella.   I knew since I was five what my daughter's name would be; no one was overruling me on it.  People think she's named after me, but, it's actually just that I really wanted that nickname for her.  LOL.

ETA: During the pandemic, I started doing geneological research, and I discovered her great-great-grandmother and her 3x-great grandmother had her first and middle names, which I had no clue of beforehand.

Edited September 26, 2022 by monkeyrocks71

[anjulibai]

On 9/17/2022 at 9:11 PM, Jackie3 said:

Gosh, could they even make 100?

Chances are, there'll be no more (or none) from Michael, Erin, Alyssa (after this next one) and Carlin. That means the remaining 14 kids have to pull all the weight, reproductively speaking.

Each of the remaining 14 would have to have 5 (or 5 more). That's fine for Jeb and Callie, but will Zach and Whitney want 5 more? Josie? Lawson?  Of course, some kids could have fewer than five, but that just increases the burden on the remaining kids.

And this doesn't even account for infertility, secondary infertility, illness (the Bates girls seem especially prone to this), preferences of the other spouse and the use of NFP and other birth control.

So, maybe 100? As for it evening out, nobody knows.  Each new birth is the same 50/50 chance, the fact that there's tons of girls already won't change that.

I think the only two you could say for certain won't have more are Michael and Erin. Even then, I'm not entirely sure you can be certain with them. Michael may adopt eventually, or have her miracle. 

I think Alyssa will have more. As much as she does not want more, she's going to have more. If this one isn't a boy, she's going to want a boy. And she did say that if she had a boy, she'd like him to have a brother. 

Carlin, who knows. If they are able to controll her seizures, they'll have more eventually, I believe. The pull of babies is too strong in this family in general. 

Lawson and Tiffany, I don't know. I don't think those two will last to be honest, but I could see them having a few kids first. Lawson would definitely remarry and probably a more typical fundie girl who would be willing to pop out a bunch of kids. 

For fundies, 5.6 kids isn't bad (and that's an average based on not including Michael) isn't that bad. Erin and Alyssa have that now. Zach and Whitney will get there in another year or two, and I think will go beyond - they might end up with 8-10. Tori will definitely get there in another year, and I think will get into the teens. I don't know much about the personalities of the others who are married so far, but my sense is that they will all have large by normal standards families, even if they spread them out more (which I could see Josie doing). 

So I don't think 100 is out of the question. 200, probably, but not 100. Hell, their already about a quarter of the way the oldest grandkid isn't even 8 yet. 

[raayx01]

I already have my kids manes picked out. I have different combinations depending on what they look like and how I feel, but my firstborn sons name is non negotiable. All my other names and all the middle's are, but I think women just put more time into finding them name and having a meaning while a lot of guys just want something cool like Ace or Jett. All my boys names are normal names but are edgy and could be good no matter if there a baby or a grown man

[Bobology]

3 hours ago, raayx01 said:

All my boys names are normal names but are edgy and could be good no matter if there a baby or a grown man

What are some samples of edgy names, and can a "normal" name be edgy? My kids both have standard/normal 'classic' names that go on decade after decade (according to Social Security Names.) They like their names, but now I kind of wish I'd gone edgy (what I believe to be edgy, that's why I'm asking you for samples) like Zenobia or Zinnia* 

*Samples of what I believe are edgy names, lol

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I'm a fan of names that aren't "weird" but are unusual.  Think like 500-1000 on the naming lists.  I have a very classic first name that nobody would bat an eyelash at but it's more common as a middle name and I didn't meet another child my age with it until I was 13.  My daughter's name is fairly unusual but it's certainly a name most people in the USA will have heard of.  I like it that way - I HATED having another person in my class with my name, although she and I became good friends.

[CanadianMamam]

My kids all have very common names, ones that hae been in use for the last two thousand years and never go out of style. But that is because that is the middle ground between my taste and my husband's.

Left to my own devices, I liked names like Delilah and Savannah for girls and Wulfric and Zaxhariah for boys. My husband liked Hazel or Ruby and Caleb or Magnus.

However, while the names are a compromise, my daughter has a longer name in line with the names I like and a short nickname that is similar in tone to the names her father likes. My sons we compromised with the middle names, each picking one. So there is still elements of our personal taste in the names we chose. 

Our wedding colors were fairly trendy at the time, but were also a color symbolic of his heritage and my favorite color, so again a compromise and a bit of both of us, and we had a wedding with a lot of traditional elements and with decor, again we tend to meet in the middle with a more traditional style. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by CanadianMamam

[Keys]

With our baby, I asked my husband what he thought of a name of a character from a show we were watching while I was in the first trimester. He immediately loved it, so that became our girl name. I like classic names for boys, and suggested probably over 100 to my husband, but he was dead set on one name, which happened to be the male version of my name. I thought that might be weird and that people would think he was named after me. We found out our baby was a girl, so we didn’t need to make that boy name decision after all, lol. I’m not sure what we’ll do if we have a boy in the future though! 

[Jackie3]

22 hours ago, anjulibai said:

Michael may adopt eventually, or have her miracle. 

Or adoption will be her miracle! It is for many families.

Yes, I agree that the Bates could reach 100, after thinking it through. Primarily because so many of their kids have drunk the koolaid and feel close to the family.

Gil and Kelly, whatever their many faults, are more willing than the Duggars to accept that their adult kids make their own choices. As a result, fewer kids will slip out of the fold. Take Alyssa, for example, I think the Duggars would have rejected Alyssa and John because of the way they let their girls dress (normally, that is). But the Bates have not done so, so Alyssa is still in the fold, where status=many babies.

The Duggar kids--too many unhappy faces there. I think many will quietly order condoms off Amazon and pretend to be puzzled at their small number of pregnancies.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Jackie3

[displayname]

12 hours ago, Keys said:

With our baby, I asked my husband what he thought of a name of a character from a show we were watching while I was in the first trimester.

Lol my husband and I got our daughter's name from a tv show too! She wasn't named after the character, but we definitely were "inspired" by Bob's Burgers.

[SassyPants]

No Katie, I will not be buying a $100 fake olive tree for my living room. Aren’t these folks expecting another mouth to feed, insure and clothe in the next few months? And she is going back to buy another one. Yikes. I wonder if money grows on those olive trees?