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Katie & Travis 4: Still under the Umbrella of Patriarchy


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6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think shoes inside can be regional due to weather. Of course you don’t wear shoes inside of you live somewhere with lots of snow, sleet, and mud. But in a very dry and warm place, it may not be as big of a deal. I prefer my kids to take their shoes off when they get in the door. But I live in a place with all four seasons. So it can get really wet and muddy or snowy. I admit I’m not a stickler about shoes in the summer. 

Shoes can still have poop on them or bits of glass. When we lived in a warm climate, cactus needles (the round kind) would stick to the bottom of our shoes, and we definitely didn't want those in the house!

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We do not were wear shoes in the house.  Take off,  slippers on & carry shoes to closet.  (All shoes in hall closet.  Not bedrooms. I’m a stickler about that. I keep a basket by the door with slipper socks for guests.  I also change my clothes after being out.  My husband changes out of his work clothes too. I wipe my dogs’ paws before they come in too 😁  Midwest here.  I think this might be normal. 

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I have work/house clothes as well. For me it‘s the feeling of physical distance and I can better relax when I‘m at home. Same for make up, I only wear it for work. It gives me a different mind set and I like it.

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5 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I think the most important thing is to be compliant with what your hosts does regarding the shoe question. It’s their house, so if they wear house shoes/socks that’s what guests should do as well. Many can offer at least socks or are fine with the shoes for the moment- people should just remember for their second visit. Sometimes outside shoes are fine at bigger event/party/dinner- the floor would get dirty anyway and will be cleaned thoroughly afterwards. 
But I think it should be the norm to follow such basic rules if you are visiting someone else’s home.

I do agree with this too. When we have a large gathering here in AZ, most people just leave their shoes on. We do clean the floors well the next day. Our downstairs is all tile, so it isn't too hard to clean. In MN, people still took off their shoes, especially in the wintertime. I do keep some easy slip-on slippers (like the ones you get at a hotel) for people that don't want to be barefoot. In MN I found that many guests brought slippers to change into for parties and stuff if they didn't want to be barefoot. I know I always did because my feet are always cold. 

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13 hours ago, Hazelbunny said:

Skirts on bikes: I shudder at the thought!! So dangerous. Although aren't there these guard things you can put over the spikes to keep things from catching in the wheel? 

I got my shoelace caught in the pedals on the back of a Tandem once. That nearly caused a fall. Luckily the one on front could stabilize the bike while I slipped out of my shoe and then proceeded to detangle the laces. (Only rode in trainers with Velcro after that) 

Living in a country with more bikes than people (I personally have 4) I am always confused with others thinking some things are dangerous on bikes. I easily bike in a dress, with heels while holding an umbrella 😅

But I think the difference is the type of bikes (city bikes vs mountainbikes), having bikelanes and basically growing up on a bike.

 

Edited by CarrotCake
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Found the picture of Deven on a bike in shorts:

Spoiler

n4gf1cc0a1491.jpg

it was going to irk me forever to claim that without backing it up...

Re indoor/outdoor clothing: I remember growing up it was quite normal to have two sets of clothes: Pretty ones for school etc. and older, uglier ones to wear while playing at home.

Edited by käsekuchen
Wording. We wore hand me downs both to school and for playing, the difference was how presentable they still looked
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2 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

Living in a country with more bikes than people (I personally have 4) I am always confused with others thinking some things are dangerous on bikes. I easily bike in a dress, with heels while holding an umbrella 😅

But I think the difference is the type of bikes (city bikes vs mountainbikes), having bikelanes and basically growing up on a bike.

 

Rufus bless only because I'm amazed/in awe and there's not an adequate reaction for it :laughing-rofl:

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On 10/3/2022 at 3:01 PM, WannabeHistorian said:

Tinfoil hat theory: Is this why Papa Clark looked so upset when T&K announced? They broke pattern. Kayla should have been first as the oldest, then Mike Jr, and Travis last. 

You mean to imply that Papa Clark might be as obsessed with patters as ZZ Anderson (from the Are they all yours blog, we have a thread about her, too) is? 😂 Who knows, fundy birds of a feather… are all obsessed together. 

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I don't specifically have out-of-house clothes/home clothes, but especially since the pandemic, if I have to put on a bra/jeans/real clothes for anything at all, I come home and immediately strip down into comfy clothes :D 

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7 hours ago, käsekuchen said:

Found the picture of Deven on a bike in shorts:

  Hide contents

n4gf1cc0a1491.jpg

it was going to irk me forever to claim that without backing it up...

Re indoor/outdoor clothing: I remember growing up it was quite normal to have two sets of clothes: Pretty ones for school etc. and older, uglier ones to wear while playing at home.

When I was in elementary school (in dinosaur days) girls had to wear dresses. We changed into our “play clothes” when we got home. Play clothes were corduroy pants and a shirt or shorts and a top depending on weather. At some point, the skirts for girls requirement changed to “pantsuits only” to “nice pants” then “nice jeans” and by junior high I was wearing hot pants all the time. 

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Shoes off here and slippers on _ Scotland is super wet and I'm rural so its mostly to avoid mud. Now if only I could get the cat to wipe his feet. 

I used to change clothes and bra off when I  came home but since I've been working from home more I have comfy trousers. Also even with big boobs and a very small back since I've been wearing molke bras they are so comfy I don't meed to immediately tke them off. 

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9 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

Living in a country with more bikes than people (I personally have 4) I am always confused with others thinking some things are dangerous on bikes. I easily bike in a dress, with heels while holding an umbrella 😅

But I think the difference is the type of bikes (city bikes vs mountainbikes), having bikelanes and basically growing up on a bike.

 

I was also going to say, different cultures! It's like saying that driving in a skirt is dangerous or something. I have never cycled while holding an umbrella, but have cycled in a ball gown (to and from a ball) with stockings and suspenders, in all sorts of shoes from falling apart ballerina flats (One fell off my foot and a bus driver had to wait for me while I backed up to get my shoe off the road 😄) to high heeled boots, in flares, and shorts and skirts. It really makes no difference if you aren't in a race!

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This is embarrassing to read; I have never lived anywhere that people removed their shoes when they entered the house, it just wasn't a part of my life.  I went to visit friends in Canada, and when we went in the house she told me she had bought me a pair of slippers.  I very politely thanked her and told her I had slippers with me, BUT I only wore them in the evening and I never absorbed the fact that they removed their shoes.  I honestly thought it was a matter of the slippers being more comfortable, and my shoes were plenty comfortable.  I would apologize to her now, but she disowned me and blocked me on Facebook over something very minor.

 

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13 hours ago, pupper said:

When I was in elementary school (in dinosaur days) girls had to wear dresses. We changed into our “play clothes” when we got home. Play clothes were corduroy pants and a shirt or shorts and a top depending on weather. At some point, the skirts for girls requirement changed to “pantsuits only” to “nice pants” then “nice jeans” and by junior high I was wearing hot pants all the time. 

When I was in first grade back in 1971 I wore a "Scooter Skirt" to school (now known as a "skort"- looks like a skirt in the front but was shorts in the back).  I was told to change when I returned home from lunch as a scooter skirt was not appropriate school attire.  My mother, who picked the scooter skirt out for me to wear that day because she thought it was so cute, was not happy about it and honestly didn't see how it violated any rules.   

I'd say times have changed, but the public elementary and middle schools in my city, as well as the alternative high school, wear uniforms and have done so for the last several years.  Ironically the regular public high school is exempt.            

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One of the first things I do when I come home is change clothes as I wear a skirt to work each day (my choice, I feel more comfortable than when wearing pants) and put on pajama pants, a t-shirt, and a sweatshirt in the winter or a comfy pair of shorts in warmer weather.

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I’m a HCW and in scrubs at work, so I most definitely change out of them asap (often still at work) so I don’t bring those germs home. 
 

As an aside, I had a really bad roommate situation back in my undergrad. She would come home and change into a very thin tank top and shorts, even in the freezing winter, and then wanted the heat to be turned up to 80F 😑 we settled on I think 74 or 75? Which was still too warm for me. But then I’d come home and find she’d turned it way up again. Had some very serious conversations with her about it, and THEN she left it alone, but purchased a space heater that she’d use literally 24 hours a day and it would Jack up the temp in the apartment just the same. I’m all for wearing whatever you’re comfortable in at home, but gosh that situation drove me crazy haha. There were many other issues with that arrangement, and I now STRONGLY advise friends and family to not have roommates if it can be avoided. 🫠

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11 hours ago, Keys said:

She would come home and change into a very thin tank top and shorts, even in the freezing winter, and then wanted the heat to be turned up to 80F 😑 we settled on I think 74 or 75?

Urgh, I had one of those too. And she was home when I and the other housemate were out, and would pretend she hadn't turned on the heating (like we didn't notice when we came home, or see the bills). So, baking hot, with the electric fire on (we took the fuse out, and she never mentioned it, as she knew we split the bills three ways, and she was being a cow). If, however, one of us had to leave very early, and set the heating/water on so we could wash, she'd come down and turn it off as "it woke her up, and she's a teacher, unlike you students" (She was a student teacher, so still hard, but she was actually only out a few hours a day, unlike us full time students with jobs... I pity her students, if she ever graduated).

Also, she slammed every door, including early in the morning, and woke us up every week day, she would use at least one roll of toilet paper per day, regularly left a blocked toilet, as "she's a teacher, and can't be late", bought one 4 pack of paper in a year, and literally never cleaned anything in the house. My other housemate and I used to end up hiding in our rooms when her car came up the street. She moved out to live with her boyfrien giving us one week notice and leaving us to cover the rent. And the heating bills were three times higher that year, we made her pay half in the end. And I never saw her wear winter clothes inside. She'd go out in thick sweaters etc, and at home, tank tops, bare feet and shorty PJs. Just, why? WHY?

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11 hours ago, Zebedee said:

Urgh, I had one of those too. And she was home when I and the other housemate were out, and would pretend she hadn't turned on the heating (like we didn't notice when we came home, or see the bills). So, baking hot, with the electric fire on (we took the fuse out, and she never mentioned it, as she knew we split the bills three ways, and she was being a cow). If, however, one of us had to leave very early, and set the heating/water on so we could wash, she'd come down and turn it off as "it woke her up, and she's a teacher, unlike you students" (She was a student teacher, so still hard, but she was actually only out a few hours a day, unlike us full time students with jobs... I pity her students, if she ever graduated).

Also, she slammed every door, including early in the morning, and woke us up every week day, she would use at least one roll of toilet paper per day, regularly left a blocked toilet, as "she's a teacher, and can't be late", bought one 4 pack of paper in a year, and literally never cleaned anything in the house. My other housemate and I used to end up hiding in our rooms when her car came up the street. She moved out to live with her boyfrien giving us one week notice and leaving us to cover the rent. And the heating bills were three times higher that year, we made her pay half in the end. And I never saw her wear winter clothes inside. She'd go out in thick sweaters etc, and at home, tank tops, bare feet and shorty PJs. Just, why? WHY?

Wow, that sounds awful!!! Sorry you had to deal with this. In addition to the heat issue, my roommate also burned this horrible incense that gave me the worst headache and the smell lingered for dayssss. I asked if she could only burn it when I was not home (I thought that was reasonable considering it still stunk up the whole apartment for days after?), and she acted like I was being so harsh and poor her. She also constantly left lights on, ran the washing machine and dryer daily for like 2 articles of clothes (rip utilities), and ran the dishwasher half empty. Asked if we could wait till it’s full to run it to save utilities and she got angry with me and said washing dishes required too much mental energy for her (literally). One day I came home from work to find my parking space filled with boxes and mattresses. I calmly questioned her about it, and she started yelling at me about how she had cleaned out her storage locker and she was doing me a favour putting the stuff in my spot instead of cluttering the apartment with it. I was thinking well maybe if you didn’t have space to put it you should have kept the locker?? Also left the stove on 3 times! 3 times. Once in the middle of the night when I’d gotten up to pee and smelled something burning and twice when she left for work in the morning. Ooh… and she had her family stay over from out of town all the freaking time. It was a small apartment and they’d be so loud constantly and then would sleep in the common area/open concept kitchen/living room. I ended up ending the lease early and she told me that I was such an awful person for doing that that “only God could save me” (I gave her 3 months notice!). Saddest part is we actually started off as friends!

Sorry for the novel haha… this was almost 10 years ago now and it still brings up bad feelings. 🫠

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4 hours ago, Keys said:

this was almost 10 years ago now and it still brings up bad feelings.

Woah, she sounds awful. Some people are just terrible. My housemate was about 15 years ago, and, as you can tell, I'm still a little bitter. Fortunately, I rarely think about her these days (though you have just reminded me that she also burnt incense - that was actually her least annoying habit, lol - and ran the washing machine with one or two things in it. All. The. Time. She also shuffled everywhere, and had a permanent sniff!)

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I'm lucky I'm married, as there is probably no one else I could live with anymore. I hated having roommates that wouldn't wear warm clothes.

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I’ve decided I’m much too old and set in my ways at 40 to ever have roommates again. When I was young it was ok. But I know I’m more rigid now about how I want my house. Of course my sons are roommates from hell. They never want to clean up after themselves, they pay no rent, and they are louder than a brass band on The 4th of July. I can’t believe I gave birth to these terrible roommates! 

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On 11/30/2022 at 5:15 AM, Zebedee said:

Woah, she sounds awful. Some people are just terrible. My housemate was about 15 years ago, and, as you can tell, I'm still a little bitter. Fortunately, I rarely think about her these days (though you have just reminded me that she also burnt incense - that was actually her least annoying habit, lol - and ran the washing machine with one or two things in it. All. The. Time. She also shuffled everywhere, and had a permanent sniff!)

Yes! And the hard part is that it’s not always easy predict who will be a total disaster roommate until you’re actually living together. I don’t blame you for being bitter… our situations sound similar! When we were buying our first house, my husband liked the idea of renting out the basement for extra income. And I said no way. 😂

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1 hour ago, Keys said:

Yes! And the hard part is that it’s not always easy predict who will be a total disaster roommate until you’re actually living together. I don’t blame you for being bitter… our situations sound similar! When we were buying our first house, my husband liked the idea of renting out the basement for extra income. And I said no way. 😂

I feel bad for my old roomies. I am an ice chewer. It drove them crazy! 

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I have one roommate but we've known each other for 4 years and used to work together. Half the week she's at her boyfriends anyways. I'm sure in a year or so she'll move in with him, after that I don't think I could be bothered with roommates again unless if it's someone close to me who needs a place to stay... since I do have the space and all. 

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Someone on Reddit found Carla Clark's testimony from a few years ago and it has a lot of disturbing info. Her home life was a mess, parents divorced and her dad wasn't around, her mom was an addict and at one point she was living with her grandparents. By 15 she wasn't living with them either and was living with a family from the Clark's church. She was already dating her husband by then, they started dating when she was 14.5 (the stress the half as if that makes it better) and he was 18. They got married when she was 18. I just felt sad, like she obviously latched onto a place to belong and she was so young. 

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